I do not believe LA on a BM is fail >_>

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Today, I tested skill on a friend with my wiz almost 50, his main which is almost a LVL70 pole using BM. I shown him the skills force of will and glacial snare. And I hit him some good damage from 20 LVL difference b:surrender . When we dueled to end it, I literally almost beaten him with my water spells + pitfall. But I made a kiting mistake and distance shrink to him and he pwnt me b:laugh . And yes he was using latest HA (with MP recovery in them) no powders, no genie skills, just pure spar duel.

I don't see what's wrong with LA on a BM for magical attacks b:angry

Oh and using LA on physical attacks is stupid
Same as HA on magic attacks x.x

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Lets actually fully think through the application of having a full two complete sets of HA & LA.

First there is the cost.....refines, gems, etc....(i think this in and of itself is enough of an argument) Heck if you are willing to sacrifice one defense for another; I think using marrows is a cheaper route that gives you the same effect.

Second is the tool bar....using up all the slots just to switch out armor.

Third so you are fighting a mage and get ganked from behind by one of the following archer; bm; barb; cleric; assassin(all can use phys attacks). Now you have to switch back to HA(or use a marrow which will make you susceptible to the mages attacks (Since most bm's say max phys resistance for aoe grinding and such..not saying you did. I haven't..sigh) but wait you are too busy fighting the mage...better kill him quick...blah you died.

Now your in heavy armor..oh its a mage...red sprint..jump him... woot...stun and kill with fast combo (te genie skill woot)...wait your loosing life now...run...genie skill (te is spammable xD)...pot...find attacker... its one of the following archer; bm; barb; cleric; assassin (apoth pot of your PvP choice) resume attack....

Mage jumps you. You are sleep...they use there little combo.....instant cast of BIDS on you...you died...damn...la/ha doesn't really matter....

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Now let me just play around with some affordable build types. We will use citrines for gems since we will not have high refines for HP. Str and dex can be swapped for different weapon preference.

LA with Phys resistance ornaments

LA with Mag resistance ornaments

same without alt marrow mag on.

HA with Phys resistance ornaments

HA with Mag resistance ornaments

Sorry for stat distribution. I used myself as a base. (Yes I have 20 points saved up depending on whether or not I'm going to be able to upgrade to a better fist in the future(I have gorenox vanity...but that's really TMI for this convo)

All builds have buffs and alter marrow magic demon on. (one exception)

Which one would you rather run around without having to worry about switching armors?? 0.o

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lets actually fully think through the application of having a full two complete sets of HA & LA.

First there is the cost.....refines, gems, etc....(i think this in and of itself is enough of an argument) Heck if you are willing to sacrifice one defense for another; I think using marrows is a cheaper route that gives you the same effect.

Second is the tool bar....using up all the slots just to switch out armor.

Third so you are fighting a mage and get ganked from behind by one of the following archer; bm; barb; cleric; assassin(all can use phys attacks). Now you have to switch back to HA(or use a marrow which will make you susceptible to the mages attacks (Since most bm's say max phys resistance for aoe grinding and such..not saying you did. I haven't..sigh) but wait you are too busy fighting the mage...better kill him quick...blah you died.

Now your in heavy armor..oh its a mage...red sprint..jump him... woot...stun and kill with fast combo (te genie skill woot)...wait your loosing life now...run...genie skill (te is spammable xD)...pot...find attacker... its one of the following archer; bm; barb; cleric; assassin (apoth pot of your PvP choice) resume attack....

Mage jumps you. You are sleep...they use there little combo.....instant cast of BIDS on you...you died...damn...la/ha doesn't really matter....

You would really socket & refine 5x and 6x equips? And get ganked in a PvE server while dueling? You are 100% right when we are talking about end game, but at his levels, grabbing a LA set from AH for like 300k for duels isn't too bad. Altho I don't really see any point in it. So yes, LA BM isn't completely fail, but it's just that you can have better uses for that money and the only use for LA is in duels.

Asperitas - Lost City · April 2010

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

You would really socket & refine 5x and 6x equips? And get ganked in a PvE server while dueling? You are 100% right when we are talking about end game, but at his levels, grabbing a LA set from AH for like 300k for duels isn't too bad. Altho I don't really see any point in it. So yes, LA BM isn't completely fail, but it's just that you can have better uses for that money and the only use for LA is in duels.

AdvanceZero probably didn't know Yulk's definition of "PVP" solely consists of duels. I'd love to see what happens when a BM gets hit by blade tempest when you wear LA and use mag marrow though.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

You would really socket & refine 5x and 6x equips? And get ganked in a PvE server while dueling? You are 100% right when we are talking about end game, but at his levels, grabbing a LA set from AH for like 300k for duels isn't too bad. Altho I don't really see any point in it. So yes, LA BM isn't completely fail, but it's just that you can have better uses for that money and the only use for LA is in duels.

With that statement I would say there is even less of a reason to have any LA in your inventory. Just for duels. Stun lock works in duels so easily and mages are squishy at that level. One good 12 second stun lock should be enough....b:bye

MagicHamsta - Lost City · April 2010

LA + BM = fail.
Dx

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

With that statement I would say there is even less of a reason to have any LA in your inventory. Just for duels. Stun lock works in duels so easily and mages are squishy at that level. One good 12 second stun lock should be enough....b:bye

QQ my stuns miss every time. /ragequit

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Delete your BM, roll a sin.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't see what's wrong with LA on a BM for magical attacks b:angry

LA is the worst armor in the game. As has been said, if you want to wear LA roll a sin. LA is fail for anyone but archer or sin at endgame only because they have no other choice.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

LA is the worst armor in the game. As has been said, if you want to wear LA roll a sin. LA is fail for anyone but archer or sin at endgame only because they have no other choice.

I am an HA person, but I have build for both armors, like 3 weapon paths. Why would I want to roll an assassin to just wear light armor? And... I'd rather be swapping like I swap with weapons and armors.

Especially when it comes to affects from weapons b:chuckle, swapping is fun to do lol. Quicken from a pole, then swap to fists gg.

But I would buy a LA set for pure magic enemies, I don't think I would want to die because of magic attacks b:surrender

Nevlik - Heavens Tear · April 2010

3 words:
balance and marrow

as a side note you can balance while being slept

Kristoph - Lost City · April 2010

Nevlik - Heavens Tear wrote: »

3 words:
balance and marrow

as a side note you can balance while being slept

better off using tree/domain... seen too many BMs trying to use balance while having marrow on, and then dying to 6-8k ice dragons because balance did nothing.

And lol LA is maybe useful midgame where armor doesnt cost much, but at higher levels LA is going to have either terrible mdef or pdef. Besides, with cleric buffs and demon marrow endgame you run around with over 10k pdef and mdef even with average gear. Better off with the far higher HP gain HA refine gives you.

AirunElMarem - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Yulk why you didn't put points to mag? so you can wear arcane armor! That would be the best against wizards. And with arcane armor wiz will do like 0 dmg, so you can drop down your weapons, and fight with your own fists.

Good luck to use LA on BM, but you will fail.

MrBladey - Lost City · April 2010

Light armor BM is basically a sin with horrible damage.

Kniraven - Lost City · April 2010

On the other hand, having two pieces of HH99 LA gear to equip for some fast extra interval can help kill a barb or fellow BM damned fast.

Okeano - Harshlands · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Today, I tested skill on a friend with my wiz almost 50, his main which is almost a LVL70 pole using BM. I shown him the skills force of will and glacial snare. And I hit him some good damage from 20 LVL difference b:surrender . When we dueled to end it, I literally almost beaten him with my water spells + pitfall. But I made a kiting mistake and distance shrink to him and he pwnt me b:laugh . And yes he was using latest HA (with MP recovery in them) no powders, no genie skills, just pure spar duel.

I don't see what's wrong with LA on a BM for magical attacks b:angry

Oh and using LA on physical attacks is stupid
Same as HA on magic attacks x.x

Just wondering, have any of your characters made past 59, you know, where class ACTUALLY get their main skills?

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Just wondering, have any of your characters made past 59, you know, where class ACTUALLY get their main skills?

my barb have find all skills useful in certain situations, same as this char.

Tiger maw is a good skill after all for a quick cast attack.

So is vicious palm that seems like a useless skill to a lot of BMs. But it is perfect for kiters, it does cost spark, but it does help me a lot better than ocean's edge against kiters. Level 10 makes the enemies speed / meter to 80% for 10 seconds. In PVP, that makes archers move 1.04 speed w/o buff, 1.2 speed with thier buffs. They not going anywhere.

I do a lot of damage with stream strike, but it doesn't help arggo much b:sad its still cool.

Leap is a must have, especially when you have far strike and drake's ray. Helps kite barbs and assassins and catch the kiters.

Marrows for defense balances, which is why I would use 2 armors at once. I would mainly use HA because I go up close, using that against melee or semi magic is stupid. I'd probably not tank semi magic foes regardless because marrow's cooldowns are not fast enough. LA against wizards in PVP would definately help, keeping on magical marrows till he uses blade tempest.

Go ahead and laugh, if I want to "waste" my money on light armor, I will do it, I have enough STR for poles, and enough DEX for fists b:chuckle

Okeano - Harshlands · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

my barb have find all skills useful in certain situations, same as this char.

Tiger maw is a good skill after all for a quick cast attack.

So is vicious palm that seems like a useless skill to a lot of BMs. But it is perfect for kiters, it does cost spark, but it does help me a lot better than ocean's edge against kiters. Level 10 makes the enemies speed / meter to 80% for 10 seconds. In PVP, that makes archers move 1.04 speed w/o buff, 1.2 speed with thier buffs. They not going anywhere.

I do a lot of damage with stream strike, but it doesn't help arggo much b:sad its still cool.

Leap is a must have, especially when you have far strike and drake's ray. Helps kite barbs and assassins and catch the kiters.

Marrows for defense balances, which is why I would use 2 armors at once. I would mainly use HA because I go up close, using that against melee or semi magic is stupid. I'd probably not tank semi magic foes regardless because marrow's cooldowns are not fast enough. LA against wizards in PVP would definately help, keeping on magical marrows till he uses blade tempest.

Go ahead and laugh, if I want to "waste" my money on light armor, I will do it, I have enough STR for poles, and enough DEX for fists b:chuckle

Ok... that's not what I asked. I know what BM skills do and didn't asked for your opinion of them, but merely have you even gone pass 59 yet.

K Tiger Maw is fast... but it barely hits harder than a normal attack...

Vacuous Palm? You'd rather hit your enemy and slow them for 8 second than hit them harder and stun them for 6?

You do a lot of damage with Stream? Even Fan of Flames hits harder than Stream...

Keep magic Marrow til he... You are going to physical marrow a tempest, which is half magic...

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Ok... that's not what I asked. I know what BM skills do and didn't asked for your opinion of them, but merely have you even gone pass 59 yet.

K Tiger Maw is fast... but it barely hits harder than a normal attack...

Vacuous Palm? You'd rather hit your enemy and slow them for 8 second than hit them harder and stun them for 6?

You do a lot of damage with Stream? Even Fan of Flames hits harder than Stream...

Keep magic Marrow til he... You are going to physical marrow a tempest, which is half magic...

chi is easy to get, + I haven't developed the axe tree yet on this char, my other BM have it, but dude, its 10 seconds of slow, not 8 seconds, second, in PVE I rather slow the mobs than stun them, because once they out of stun state, I have to chase them all over again. In PVP, I can link slow and stun at the same time, its not hard to use vacuous palm then drake's bash from lvl29. I used skills that cost one spark TWICE already, there are also chi pots, spark is not an issue for BMs.

Okeano - Harshlands · April 2010

Vacuous Palm is 8, Ocean's Edge is 10. Learn your skills first. Lol if spark is not an issue, there's no point wasting it. I find myself wanting more chi even as a Sin. Your slow+stun combo is useless because you can kill a mob with 2 stuns that cost only 130 chi instead of 200. Any why the hell would you slow and stun at the same time?

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · April 2010

I'll give a few examples and explain:

you're facing a cleric. sure clerics aren't hard targets to a BM mostly but if a cleric manages to hit chromatic seal (sleep) they'll have enough time to triple spark and debuff. if you have no alter marrow they'll just hit magic and the chances of survival are low but if you have alter marrow magic on and the cleric decides to hit plume shot, you'll be dead pretty quick, like any squishy.

you're facing a wizard. those who think alter marrow magic is the perfect solution have never dealt with a real PvPer wizard. all they do is to hit a couple of times, debuff you and then hit blade tempest, which is a mixed ultmate, being 50% phys and 50% magic. that will probably get you killed with a depressingly high damage number.

in the cases mentioned your defensive weakness is exploited. with alter marrow, much worse.

there are measures for that. switching heavy to full light is mostly the worst thing you can do for PvE but for PvP it would allow you to play without alter marrow. the penalties are obvious: lower hp gains with refining, more phys damage taken if you compare heavy without marrow and light without marrow, more elemental damage taken if you compare heavy with marrow magic and light without marrow.

but light is not the only alternative. sure a heavy BM can wear refined elemental ornaments and high grade sapphires on all gear, instead of citrines. to the most that means -1000hp or even more but the advantages can be appealing: much better survivability vs. archers and magic classes even without alter marrow magic, better survivability vs. phys+magic bosses even considering the lower hp.

Asperitas - Lost City · April 2010

I posted this on his previous thread, but I'll paste it here.

Heavy Armor:

Self-Buffed:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3f120e73e8e39261

Full-Buffed:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9d32aed1d3358f95

Light Armor:

Self-Buffed (Citrines):
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a746297ff339a22b

Protection Ornaments:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bdbcb47d0c50c239

Full-Buffed (Citrines):
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0ea364e3f71bcf43

Protection Ornaments:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2be2755cfca663b8

No matter how I look at it, HA is still more balanced, more effective, just overall superior.

Motoko - Raging Tide · April 2010

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'll give a few examples and explain:

you're facing a cleric. sure clerics aren't hard targets to a BM mostly but if a cleric manages to hit chromatic seal (sleep) they'll have enough time to triple spark and debuff. if you have no alter marrow they'll just hit magic and the chances of survival are low but if you have alter marrow magic on and the cleric decides to hit plume shot, you'll be dead pretty quick, like any squishy.

you're facing a wizard. those who think alter marrow magic is the perfect solution have never dealt with a real PvPer wizard. all they do is to hit a couple of times, debuff you and then hit blade tempest, which is a mixed ultmate, being 50% phys and 50% magic. that will probably get you killed with a depressingly high damage number.

in the cases mentioned your defensive weakness is exploited. with alter marrow, much worse.

there are measures for that. switching heavy to full light is mostly the worst thing you can do for PvE but for PvP it would allow you to play without alter marrow. the penalties are obvious: lower hp gains with refining, more phys damage taken if you compare heavy without marrow and light without marrow, more elemental damage taken if you compare heavy with marrow magic and light without marrow.

but light is not the only alternative. sure a heavy BM can wear refined elemental ornaments and high grade sapphires on all gear, instead of citrines. to the most that means -1000hp or even more but the advantages can be appealing: much better survivability vs. archers and magic classes even without alter marrow magic, better survivability vs. phys+magic bosses even considering the lower hp.

Assuming you have demon magic marrow, having it on will reduce the dmg of a blade tempest.

Also I would much rather get hit by plume shot than tempest...

Michael_Dark - Lost City · April 2010

Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »

Assuming you have demon magic marrow, having it on will reduce the dmg of a blade tempest.

Also I would much rather get hit by plume shot than tempest...

+1

;klasjdfsdf

AirunElMarem - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »

Assuming you have demon magic marrow, having it on will reduce the dmg of a blade tempest.

Also I would much rather get hit by plume shot than tempest...

If we just see duel, I would use alter marrow physical against casters with balance, so you will have very high physical defense+you have magic absorb( wiz with 400+mag will do around 50dmg/spell:) ), of course only for a few seconds. But this few seconds is more then enough for me to stun my enemy so the wiz,psy,veno(pet wont do a lot of dmg),cleric will die. Of course this skill combination have weak points, like if my opponent is a herbalist, and he use stuff what gives him stun resist, or if I cant interrupt the veno's shield(this happends a lot of times, becouse i really can't timing), or if I face with a much higher veno, so I kill myself becouse of bremble etc...

But since no one see that you use balance(becouse it's hard to see the effect) the caster will be surprised becouse he will do like 0 dmg. And believe me Iam only 89, but I was able to sweat some caster around lvl100(who have mid gear).

With LA Balance won't absorb a lot of dmg, and your marrow won't really good too.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

Guys, this guy doesn't even have his ultis, high level PK is that way

> b:chuckle

Yulk's threads are low-level dueling only. So if you want to contribute, get to different thread. Anyway, I wish I was still lower level... 7x sucks because you have to know how to play to win duels. And everyone has TT70 +3 with 4soc flawless citrines QQ.

////III - Harshlands3 · April 2010

this OP is the dumbest bm ive ever seen. strike that, dumbest person. if ur above lvl 50 and still responding to this thread u either are dumb urself or have way too much free time

Granrey - Sanctuary · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Today, I tested skill on a friend with my wiz almost 50, his main which is almost a LVL70 pole using BM. I shown him the skills force of will and glacial snare. And I hit him some good damage from 20 LVL difference b:surrender . When we dueled to end it, I literally almost beaten him with my water spells + pitfall. But I made a kiting mistake and distance shrink to him and he pwnt me b:laugh . And yes he was using latest HA (with MP recovery in them) no powders, no genie skills, just pure spar duel.

I don't see what's wrong with LA on a BM for magical attacks b:angry

Oh and using LA on physical attacks is stupid
Same as HA on magic attacks x.x

At your current level you are doing the right thing. As you level up, you will find tricks and learn to use skills to defeat magic mobs and magic classes and then the light armor is not worth to have it but for now is great.

Don't let people who only use axes only and axe's skills only to stop you from learning and having fun. They have their toons inside a box and they want everybody in it too.

Godswhisper - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

LA is the worst armor in the game. As has been said, if you want to wear LA roll a sin. LA is fail for anyone but archer or sin at endgame only because they have no other choice.

AGREED b:laugb:pleased

I do not believe LA on a BM is fail >_>

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