Crits for Clerics

Futurelord - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Worth it? By lvl 100 i expect to have a 25% rate or higher. I remember a nice experience where a wizard crit every duel (7 duels) she had a 6% crit rate, i crit once with a 11% rate (Fair?).

Is 25% enough to to be reliable?

Before the comments comes i will say this only once, I do not use Light Armor.b:bye

Miugre - Heavens Tear · April 2010

So then what DO you use? Event gear? Warsouls?

I'd like to see how you plan to get 25% crit with an arcane build and not sell your house to do it.

Airyll - Dreamweaver · April 2010

That's an awful lot of crit for an arcane build. You'd probably be better putting that crit into -chan to be quite honest, because even at 25% crits aren't guaranteed to happen every duel or whatever.

What people don't understand is that a 25% crit rate doesn't mean you crit one in every four hits.

So, keeping this in mind, it would seem more sensible - especially if you're an arcane build - to make use of -chan, so that you don't have to rely on a lucky crit but can fire off spells as fast as possible and, hey, you might still get a lucky crit anyway and that crit would hurt all the more because you wouldn't be using the armor you have to be using now (some form of LA armor [evasive ornaments perhaps?] to aim for 25% crit at 100.) Or, you know, you're pumping points into dex and not saying anything. I dunno.

If you're really using nothing but arcane armor, you got incredibly lucky with the crit% bonuses you get from it.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What people don't understand is that a 25% crit rate doesn't mean you crit one in every four hits.

Could you elaborate on this? 25% should mean, on AVERAGE, one in four. Are you referring to simple statistical fluctuation, or is there some game mechanic I'm not aware of that makes crit rates false?

Actually a 25% crit rate would be pretty godly on a caster. But again, I'd love to see a way he can do it without spending tons of cash.

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear · April 2010

25% crit will need 500dex.Since you got 5 base dex,u need 495 dex.If you get 2 Ring of Heavenly Lord,that's 4% off which means 80dex off which means another 415dex to go.That's a long way to go

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2010

I have between 12 and 15 % crit as full mag, depending on what gear I'm using.
And yeah, for an archer that 25% crit is not much, but believe me, for a caster anything close to 15 or above is already very, very dangerous. Crits on full mags (or even vit) will usually end the fight. In 1v1 is not that obvious, but in TWs it makes all the diff in the world.

Now to answer OP: as a cleric you have the choice of going LA for increase crit, since you're always buffed and your magic defense will not be utter **** 90% of the time. 100 points in dex for example will get you an extra 5% crit. Wearing same gear I have, putting 2 crit stones on weapon (TT99 gold or Sinrabansho) and using a warsoul helmet, u can get to about 24% crit.That's without nirvana gear.
If you stay full mag/vit , with the best possible gear ingame, you cannot get more than 20% crit as arcane (unless u really stack crit on belts/rings and nothing else) and even that 20% will cost you soooooo much and be so unreliable that you would be better off just investing those money in refines/shards to give you better survivability/more damage.

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

25% crit will need 500dex.Since you got 5 base dex,u need 495 dex.If you get 2 Ring of Heavenly Lord,that's 4% off which means 80dex off which means another 415dex to go.That's a long way to go

uhm...he's a cleric, you know....ijs..

Iluc - Sanctuary · April 2010

erm, nothing mentioned about not using cash? so he might be spending half his arm just to get it.

but yeah, if you use cash to get crits... use it to get -channel instead

and once again, Airyll, nice new sig

Airyll - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Could you elaborate on this? 25% should mean, on AVERAGE, one in four. Are you referring to simple statistical fluctuation, or is there some game mechanic I'm not aware of that makes crit rates false?

Actually a 25% crit rate would be pretty godly on a caster. But again, I'd love to see a way he can do it without spending tons of cash.

Feel free to sit and do the math yourself, but the randomisation of PWI has been in question for a while now - there was even a topic brought up about it recently with suggestions pertaining to how you can test whether the randomisation differs and actually causes a crit rate to be less than the displayed on a character screen - or more.

I've not sat down and worked out the average myself, but there's been a huge number of times when I honestly swear I am averaging out on a 20% crit or less rather than the actual crit rate I have. Maybe I'll sit down and test it one day, but for now I'll reiterate that 25% does in no way guarantee one in four attacks will crit, and there's the possibility it won't even average to that amount either.

-edit-

Thanks, Iluc.

Celestyna - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Personally I wouldnt want higher crit but would go the chan route. the upside the -chan is you will heal faster as well. the major down side i have to crit builds is agro stealing, I personally dont need more help to steal agro when i am attacking b:surrender

AlbireoTwo - Lost City · April 2010

Do heals crit?

Celestyna - Heavens Tear · April 2010

AlbireoTwo - Lost City wrote: »

Do heals crit?

honestly not sure, i dont notice they do on my veno(who is LA atm) it is just really hard to tell with Iron Heart since it heals over time. I wouldnt want to depend on a chance thing to keep a tank (or myself) alive however

Alliptica - Raging Tide · April 2010

so u want more crit for duels? b:chuckle

Raseth - Sanctuary · April 2010

So posters here don't know the cleric only genie skill? Rainbow Blessing gives +10% crit while in effect, so he only needs 15% natural crit.

Magicgabe - Lost City · April 2010

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1f3bc074252988f2

^ 26% crit w/o rainbow.

However, I think sparkle boots have 2% crit not 3%(need confirmation????)
and primval stones have 1% crit not 2%(need confirmation again???)

However based of this,

a 36% crit could be obtained through rainbow blessing.

not bad at all.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've not sat down and worked out the average myself, but there's been a huge number of times when I honestly swear I am averaging out on a 20% crit or less rather than the actual crit rate I have. Maybe I'll sit down and test it one day, but for now I'll reiterate that 25% does in no way guarantee one in four attacks will crit, and there's the possibility it won't even average to that amount either.

Randomization is just that kind of animal. Some mobs you'll get no crits at all, other mobs you'll get three crits in a row and kill them before even using knockback. XD (this happens to me and my crit rate is only 17% atm)

Celestyna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Personally I wouldnt want higher crit but would go the chan route. the upside the -chan is you will heal faster as well. the major down side i have to crit builds is agro stealing, I personally dont need more help to steal agro when i am attacking b:surrender

With a good tank, it's hard to steal, at least if you're alternating between healing and attacking. Usually it's the straight-up DDs who have trouble with aggro control. Hell, when I play with DD clerics, I throw in my Thundershock (currently Lv8, -44% metal res) to increase the clerics' damage output. Not one of them ever steals aggro.

AlbireoTwo - Lost City wrote: »

Do heals crit?

They damn well should. XD

Raseth - Sanctuary · April 2010

Magicgabe - Lost City wrote: »

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1f3bc074252988f2

^ 26% crit w/o rainbow.

However, I think sparkle boots have 2% crit not 3%(need confirmation????)
and primval stones have 1% crit not 2%(need confirmation again???)

However based of this,

a 36% crit could be obtained through rainbow blessing.

not bad at all.

You boosted dex just for extra crit? Try dropping it back to 5, tossing the remaining 120 into mag. Sparkle is only 2%, and stones are 1% (at least ones currently available). Don't know why you had the LA armor wrists on the build. If you look at your extra damage, and use Rainbow Blessing in either case, you'll see your average damage will increase, and the strength of the hits when they crit will be higher. 6 extra crit when you already are in the 3X range is not as great an effect as an extra 2.2K mag attk damage (roughly 26% extra). Skill damage will skew it back to lower amount when crit is factored in, but only on the high end skills mostly. Personal preference I guess.

Euphy - Dreamweaver · April 2010

I'm still baffeled by the +25% crit.
You can get:
1% for free!
4% from a weapon.
6% from two Lunar Rings.
2% from Dancing Sparkle Boots. Or as the 6th Power of the Archangel Set.
1% from a tome.
1% from a event robe (not sure which one but there is one).
1% from Warsoul Earth helmet.
~2% from Demonic Metal Mastery (Affects only Metal Magic: not counted on Character Page)~
2% from two Shards in a two socket weapon.
18%
You could potentially get 2% more crit by using TT99:Gold Ashura ornaments. That would you at 20% (though the ornaments would otherwise be rather useless so that seems fail).
Now are you planning on adding for a total of 100 raw points of DEX, with gimped ornaments?

I don't buy into the Full Support/Full Attack theories, since I feel like I can do both. However, DEX and Crit-rate does nothing for your healing ability what so ever, nor does it help you survive (sorry you wont dodge with 100DEX, not with +50% accuracy rings). I might understand building towards 18% and then using Rainbow Blessing for 28%... at that point its a style preference I suppose. Especially if you use the Archangel complete set you'd still have up to 31% channeling (assuming you're also using a Scroll of Tome). But merely gunning for 25% seems a little crazy, if you're asking for opinions (which I'm assuming as you posted this thread).

I'm building towards Channeling instead of Crit-rate.
10% from a weapon (Beemhoof Slicer).
6% from 2 Stones of Savant.
12% from two Lunar Rings.
12% from the sleeves and belt of the Archangel Set.
1% from a tome.
6% from a Lunar Glade: Calm robe.
3% from Warsoul Heaven helmet.
3% from the lv.90 rank top.
52%
You could get even more if you decided to use an Elemental Necklace (up 9% more Channeling) or found an Elemental Belt with 9% Channeling. A lv.99 or 100 rank top is 6% Channeling. That would put you at... 67% or even 87% Demon Sparked. Wowza!
Back to reasonably super-expensive end-game equipment:
Whether Channeling is better I cannot say. Its merely what I thought was more fun. I'm not sure if 18% Crit - 31% Channeling or 9% Crit - 52% Channeling would be more impressive for damage. However, general consensus amongst clerics is that there are not critical heals. I'm sure either build would quite astonishing!
I'm not in favor of adding DEX and using Ashura ornaments for an additional 7% crit-rate however. That would damped your base magical power and even your survivability (many clerics opt for Protection Ornaments if not Elemental with Channeling).

ACLucius - Archosaur · April 2010

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Could you elaborate on this? 25% should mean, on AVERAGE, one in four. Are you referring to simple statistical fluctuation, or is there some game mechanic I'm not aware of that makes crit rates false?

Actually a 25% crit rate would be pretty godly on a caster. But again, I'd love to see a way he can do it without spending tons of cash.

Look at it this way, the Crit percent is not based on an entire combat mode (blinking red around Chi), it is based on each individual hit. If you have 25% crit rate, that means you have a 25% chance to have a critical hit. Were all your attacks lumped into one very large group (such as attacks on a World Boss would be), you would see it reaching about an average of 25% if that was indeed your crit rate. However, on my Assassin, I can sometimes hit no crits at all (with about 15%) and sometimes I will hit nothing but crits on a single mob. Each attack itself has that percent attached, not the entire string of attacks. For this reason, you will see fluctuations in having highs and lows in the amount of crits you put out.

I'm sure some of you pure Mag builds have seen yourselves hit two or three crits in a row with a very low crit rate. Were each one based on the entire string, this would not be possible. Were each individual attack subject to the crit rate, then it would just be improbable, as it is.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Well This is the last time i go so long without replying, I caped my dex at 40 around lvl 50 so thats an extra 2% right there, dont judge 40 is hardly significant.

I do plan to get the lvl 100 TT weapon that gives +4% and thanks to the new PWI Teacher i can get 2 +3% rings for as little as free!b:chuckle

Added to Metal mastery Demon version thats an extra 2% <---Don't that encourage clerics to try out crits more?

There is the not often mention +1% from an arrow lol, and another from the lvl 80 Christmas tome. I do plan to shard that weapon with 2 +1 crit orbs (I have that kinda time, not much money needed)

The event Boots, Cap, and Cape will give an extra 4% and its not impossible to find some ornaments and armor that gives extra crits as well.

All in all i would not only have 25% crit rate but also Decent armor for my lvl and my attack power wont be gimped cause i would hardly have dex. I won't have to rely on dex thanks to that but it will give me an edge. (As far as channling go i have enough problems with my heals misfireing with just -6% By lvl 100 i would have -24?% from the weapon rings and sleeves.)

Again i would like to state I do in fact have that kinda time on my hand, as sad as it is.b:victory

Magicgabe - Lost City · April 2010

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=068881c335bf4379

This gives you true 25% natural crit.

note: I in no way endorse this build. I'm just saying that its reasonably possible, even though its not the most effient and cheap way to build a cleric.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · April 2010

There is the not often mention +1% from an arrow lol

According to some posters, this has been tested and you don't actually get any crit bonus from having an elite arrow in your quiver unless you're actually shooting them, and that GMs have stated that if it did work, it would be bannable as an exploit.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

According to some posters, this has been tested and you don't actually get any crit bonus from having an elite arrow in your quiver unless you're actually shooting them, and that GMs have stated that if it did work, it would be bannable as an exploit.

Cough b:avoid What crit arrow? no idea what your talking about.

Quote: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=068881c335bf4379

This gives you true 25% natural crit.

note: I in no way endorse this build. I'm just saying that its reasonably possible, even though its not the most effient and cheap way to build a cleric. :End Quote

In no way do i endorse the use of some of those expensive gear such as rings and tome, and why is the dex needed?

Euphy - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Quote: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=068881c335bf4379

In no way do i endorse the use of some of those expensive gear such as rings and tome, and why is the dex needed?

Here's an edited version (you said you capped at 40 Dex: you get 20 from the Robe+Tome). I can't see you getting more then 20% without adding DEX like that other person did. That's why they added it. To give you that 5% you were talking about.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ed8d9967a3e8d824

Remember:
1)Crit Arrows don't effect your Crit-Rate if you aren't using a bow.
2)Crit Gems only add 1% crit, not 2% like on the calculator. (It also doubles the savant stone's effect on channeling for some odd reason.)
3)Dancing Sparkle boots give only 2% crit.
4)I'm pretty sure those rings are free (you need to wait 180 days). The tome is pricy but hey...

PS: I'm at -36% Channeling and I don't glitch out on healing spells. If you're a marco-user then sure they mess them up, if you play the game then no problem.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Here's an edited version (you said you capped at 40 Dex: you get 20 from the Robe+Tome). I can't see you getting more then 20% without adding DEX like that other person did. That's why they added it. To give you that 5% you were talking about.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ed8d9967a3e8d824

Remember:
1)Crit Arrows don't effect your Crit-Rate if you aren't using a bow.
2)Crit Gems only add 1% crit, not 2% like on the calculator. (It also doubles the savant stone's effect on channeling for some odd reason.)
3)Dancing Sparkle boots give only 2% crit.
4)I'm pretty sure those rings are free (you need to wait 180 days). The tome is pricy but hey...

PS: I'm at -36% Channeling and I don't glitch out on healing spells. If you're a marco-user then sure they mess them up, if you play the game then no problem.

Demon metal mastery is another +2% not sure if you added that in, If i get ornaments and armor itself (i seen a +1% crit on a legendary arcane armor shirt) then i can fill in the gap. Without the Arrow then i will have to find another iteam to replace it, Your God forbid if i got my hands on one of those +8% crit nirvana weaponsb:shocked

Edit: The misfire heals normally happens when the game is lagging half a second late or more.

Edit Again: Wouldn't it be so funny if i had a FULL channeling focus gear on me at all time so i could switch?

Legerity - Sanctuary · April 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Feel free to sit and do the math yourself, but the randomisation of PWI has been in question for a while now - there was even a topic brought up about it recently with suggestions pertaining to how you can test whether the randomisation differs and actually causes a crit rate to be less than the displayed on a character screen - or more.

I've not sat down and worked out the average myself, but there's been a huge number of times when I honestly swear I am averaging out on a 20% crit or less rather than the actual crit rate I have. Maybe I'll sit down and test it one day, but for now I'll reiterate that 25% does in no way guarantee one in four attacks will crit, and there's the possibility it won't even average to that amount either.

-edit-

Thanks, Iluc.

I ran a test on the proc rate of Gloom a while back in 2009 and along the way I documented additional information. Part of this was testing if the critical precents were correct.

Out of 1909 arrows, I crit 394 of them (20.64%). My critical percentile back then was 22%. While it has been observed that there appears to be strings of crits/misses, based on what I found it perhaps will eventually approach the displayed critical percentile when there is a large enough sample size, so I am unsure of what you're trying to get at in this post quoted above...

Airyll - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »

I ran a test on the proc rate of Gloom a while back in 2009 and along the way I documented additional information. Part of this was testing if the critical precents were correct.

Out of 1909 arrows, I crit 394 of them (20.64%). My critical percentile back then was 22%. While it has been observed that there appears to be strings of crits/misses, based on what I found it perhaps will eventually approach the displayed critical percentile when there is a large enough sample size, so I am unsure of what you're trying to get at in this post quoted above...

What I was trying to get at was that the crit % displayed doesn't guarantee you will crit that much, and there's even the potential to not average your crit %. I then added that I hadn't confirmed this by testing it myself, so that it was clear I wasn't saying the gospel truth, only my opinion based on the things I'd seen and what I'd heard.

This is because the OP was talking about wanting 25% crit, after the fact he'd seen wizzies crit once every duel with a 6% crit, or some foolishness like that. I was making the assumption that this guy was assuming 25% crit guaranteed one in every four hits was a crit, and on this assumption, responded to clarify that, no, 25% crit doesn't guarantee one in every four hits will be a crit.

When you have a cleric wanting 25% crit it's probably a safe thing to assume that he's not really quite sure on how crits average out. Especially when they seem to be using a wizzy with 6% critting in ever duel as their basis for wanting more crit %.

Hopefully that's cleared it up for you?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · April 2010

18% crit is way enough. Its not as much as a archer but im happy with 18 if i get a crit once in every 5-6 hits.

Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm building towards Channeling instead of Crit-rate.
10% from a weapon (Beemhoof Slicer).
6% from 2 Stones of Savant.
12% from two Lunar Rings.
12% from the sleeves and belt of the Archangel Set.
1% from a tome.
6% from a Lunar Glade: Calm robe.
3% from Warsoul Heaven helmet.
3% from the lv.90 rank top.
52%
You could get even more if you decided to use an Elemental Necklace (up 9% more Channeling) or found an Elemental Belt with 9% Channeling. A lv.99 or 100 rank top is 6% Channeling. That would put you at... 67% or even 87% Demon Sparked. Wowza!
Back to reasonably super-expensive end-game equipment:
Whether Channeling is better I cannot say. Its merely what I thought was more fun. I'm not sure if 18% Crit - 31% Channeling or 9% Crit - 52% Channeling would be more impressive for damage. However, general consensus amongst clerics is that there are not critical heals. I'm sure either build would quite astonishing!
I'm not in favor of adding DEX and using Ashura ornaments for an additional 7% crit-rate however. That would damped your base magical power and even your survivability (many clerics opt for Protection Ornaments if not Elemental with Channeling).

if you go above 35% channeling you risk a chance of your skill and animation kinda 'locking' and recasting. Not always but sometimes and it sucks when its the important times. Yes ive tried 50% channeling

Futurelord - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is because the OP was talking about wanting 25% crit, after the fact he'd seen wizzies crit once every duel with a 6% crit, or some foolishness like that. I was making the assumption that this guy was assuming 25% crit guaranteed one in every four hits was a crit, and on this assumption, responded to clarify that, no, 25% crit doesn't guarantee one in every four hits will be a crit.

When you have a cleric wanting 25% crit it's probably a safe thing to assume that he's not really quite sure on how crits average out. Especially when they seem to be using a wizzy with 6% critting in ever duel as their basis for wanting more crit %.

Hopefully that's cleared it up for you?

I can understand how you can assume such a thing so i will state now that at the very beginning of creating this cleric i was aiming for crits, i may have become crit obsessed but nevertheless it was what i planned to do from the beginning.b:victory

I pointed out the Wizard because i knew the unreliability of crits and so figured it would be something for some people to take note of.b:sad

As i've said in a previous post having such a crit rate will not gimp my damage or healing because im raising my % with gear rather then dex. If anything i will have an edge over most in duels cause i have a higher chance to crit then all other clerics.b:chuckle

As my last statement i want to point out that i have already at 11% crit rate (10% if arrow dont count) won duels several times because of crits, sometimes and thats about 5 times now, i have crit twice on the same person within 1 duel session.

AngelOfLies - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

According to some posters, this has been tested and you don't actually get any crit bonus from having an elite arrow in your quiver unless you're actually shooting them, and that GMs have stated that if it did work, it would be bannable as an exploit.

they dont work b:bored huh i thought they did, but as a cleric i prefer -chan, if u have low channeling u deal out attacks quicker, positive u kill the mob faster then if u use channeling, con u use mp a bit faster. my veno has 5% crit tbh with her i could care less about channeling right now, crit means she hits harder so she deals more dmg if she crits. but with clerics i see -chan as a huge bonus

edit: i use to have 4% crit on cleric but i gave up my crit stuff for +mag and +mag attack items, so i hit harder without crits. i'd work on getting a nice mag attack then going for the super (almost impossible without adding dex, and light armor gear) 25% crit

Airyll - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stuff.

If you're obsessed with crits, go play an archer, or assassin.

If you want to win duels that badly, go play BM and learn how to stunlock → bramble rage + HF. That combo will mess people up in duels OR PvP and BMs, also, have a relatively okay chance to crit, especially if you pay for good gear.

Really. Clerics are fun to play, but 25% crit is the most unnecessary thing. Especially if you want that crit for duels - you aren't even getting crit for a good reason.

Maybe it seems harsh, but I'm being serious. If all you want to do is have a relatively good chance to crit and beat people in duels, just go play a BM. If you're going to play a PvE cleric, you're going to probably want to focus more on your channel, because heals probably don't crit and tanks aren't going to thank you when you tell them that they die because you gimp both heals and damage, because you wanted to get 25% crit.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you're obsessed with crits, go play an archer, or assassin.

If you want to win duels that badly, go play BM and learn how to stunlock → bramble rage + HF. That combo will mess people up in duels OR PvP and BMs, also, have a relatively okay chance to crit, especially if you pay for good gear.

Really. Clerics are fun to play, but 25% crit is the most unnecessary thing. Especially if you want that crit for duels - you aren't even getting crit for a good reason.

Maybe it seems harsh, but I'm being serious. If all you want to do is have a relatively good chance to crit and beat people in duels, just go play a BM. If you're going to play a PvE cleric, you're going to probably want to focus more on your channel, because heals probably don't crit and tanks aren't going to thank you when you tell them that they die because you gimp both heals and damage, because you wanted to get 25% crit.

I will say again the Gear i plan on getting will do nothing to gimp my damage and heals and this will be the last time i say this.

At lvl 90 and above i will start spending around 30% or more of my time pking so i want to have an edge, even if i wanted crits for duels it would still carry on to effect other things like how quickly i can kill mobs and how helpful i am when DDing on a boss (Clerics dont have to heal ALL the time.)

Telling me to reroll is not going to work because i choose to play a cleric, its fun and versatile, if say i want to build my cleric up in a way that it excels past what others expect then thats my choice. If you dont like it then i will see you on the pk fields with my ungimped damage and crits.b:bye

Edit: Forgot to mention Did a TT1-3 today with lvl 92 barb, lvl94 cleric (she dont like to attack so i took the role of a DD), lvl 96 BM and lvl 75 archer. on soulbanisher i did a recordbreaking 5 crits in a row and stole aggro (was 82 at the time) It was awsome....

Crits for Clerics

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