Can Sins lure???

or the assassin could just get a zeal genie

Aclucius - Lost City wrote: »

They both covered it pretty well, but just some advice to you. If you are in a squad with an Assassin, don't ever heal them when on normal mobs unless they are the tank and are holding the aggro for all the mobs. If an Assassin is in danger, they should just Shadow Escape, and as you realize now, that will put aggro on you if you heal. In any BH, an Assassin should be able to look after themselves in terms of staying alive against regular mobs when there is a proper tank around.

That is not really what I would recommend, or really want sir. If I'm on my sin, and I'm saving a squishy from aggro he just took. Then I would greatly expect a heal.

And in any case, A heal is going to help me a lot more then just shadow escaping.

_Krue_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That is not really what I would recommend, or really want sir. If I'm on my sin, and I'm saving a squishy from aggro he just took. Then I would greatly expect a heal.

And in any case, A heal is going to help me a lot more then just shadow escaping.

By the time you start doing BH's, you have Tackling Slash, which should be at least level 3 (6.9 second freeze) and you have Deep Sting for a 5 second sleep. You have more options than just Shadow Escape to enable you to take care of yourself. By the time you get into any BH, you should be able to handle any one mob (two if you have good gear) on your own and heal yourself when you need to using pots and Second Wind, along with our ever so great Blood Paint.

Plus, if a squishy takes aggro, you should always be using Tackling Slash, preventing you from taking aggro and freezing the mob in place so they can get killed before ever touching the person who pulled aggro. Once you get to 59, you have two stun skills in addition to Tackling Slash, meaning you should be able to handle it. If you don't know how to handle multiple mobs by the time you reach BH, you did not do too well at learning the class.

I can easily take on three mobs my level with little to no problem. If you are having problems with one mob in a BH, you (not directed at you personally Krue) need to stop doing BH because we have a very specific role in parties as being the ones who are supposed to prevent squad wipes whenever possible. When a Tank dies and there is no Barb/Blademaster to replace them, that is our job. When the Cleric dies and subsequently the Tank, it is our job to take aggro and lure the boss away from the party to prevent anyone from dying (yes, that means we have to die if necessary).

Atropah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sweet that about covers it.

And Aclucius, he had aggro so there would have been no problem with me tossing him a friendly heal except this was the first time he used Shadow Escape (Yay, now I know its name b:victory ) to not die. Previously he was just, well... like I said, sucked and caused problems. I know thats one sin, not standard.

I haven't seen a Sin lure used, or even suggested but I think it'd be a good tool to add the a squads arsenal if people learn it.

Vitenka started a great thread "Squadding with a Sin" where she/he asked what can we do for you, what can you do for us. This is one of those things. In the absence of a veno, the sin can lure.

Well that's exactly why you don't want to heal him. Assassins only need healing if they have to aggro mobs to act as the tank or if they are tanking a boss. Otherwise, any Assassin in a BH should know how to look after themselves.

As far as the "Assassin Pull," (using a bow or knife throw) it only works (in BH's) when in BH29 or when you want to pull multiple mobs. If the mobs still have group aggro, you can't pull them individually as an Assassin unless you use a Zeal. When it comes to Shadow Escaping once a group has been pulled, it's just not worth the time. It can be done if you have no other choice, but remember that skill has a 90 second cooldown, so that's a long wait to do it again.

Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just to throw my two cents in: If I have aggro and I see the cleric healing me, I'll keep going on attacking. There is no reason not to. An Assassin being healed that uses Shadow Escape is just plain, flat out FAIL. And, yes we do need healing at other times. We are squishy and many of our healing methods aren't as effective as mobs are at hurting us.

As for the Assassin Lure. I have found, and tested slightly, a way to pull mobs using a Bow + Knife Throw. Step 1 - Shoot desired mob with bow. One arrow will do. Step 2 - Run. Step 3 - After 5-7 seconds use Knife Throw. Step 4 - Run until the other mobs reset.

From the tests I've done (though I haven't done many) this works all the time. I would like to point out that I was not in an instance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the FB mobs have a longer reset time?

'Tis the reason I just bought a Zeal

EDIT- I agree with Krue. And, by the way, Aclucius, we aren't tanks. No matter how much people want us to be, we just aren't.

Aggro time in instances is a lot higher. You'll get chased out of the instance before you lose them by running.

Assassins aren't tanks, given. But they are slightly less squishy than archers which allows them to take on instance mobs 1v1 relatively easily. If you can't then just play like any other DD by not stealing aggro and leaving all aggro control to the tanks. Just know your limits.

XChrono - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wouldn't really call the sins "less squishy" , but they do have alot of survival skills that if used right, they can survive LONGER.

Tomayto, tomahto. I played another MMO where an archer can live 5 times as long as a tank because of it's high ability to block and evade with passive skills. Are you really going to tell me that the archer is still squishy; it just has survival skills which allows to live longer? It's the same difference. Living longer means you are less squishy.

Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just to throw my two cents in: If I have aggro and I see the cleric healing me, I'll keep going on attacking. There is no reason not to. An Assassin being healed that uses Shadow Escape is just plain, flat out FAIL. And, yes we do need healing at other times. We are squishy and many of our healing methods aren't as effective as mobs are at hurting us.

As for the Assassin Lure. I have found, and tested slightly, a way to pull mobs using a Bow + Knife Throw. Step 1 - Shoot desired mob with bow. One arrow will do. Step 2 - Run. Step 3 - After 5-7 seconds use Knife Throw. Step 4 - Run until the other mobs reset.

From the tests I've done (though I haven't done many) this works all the time. I would like to point out that I was not in an instance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the FB mobs have a longer reset time?

'Tis the reason I just bought a Zeal

EDIT- I agree with Krue. And, by the way, Aclucius, we aren't tanks. No matter how much people want us to be, we just aren't.

I have said before (perhaps not in this thread, but in many others) we are not a primary tank. However, if the tank goes down and there isn't a Blademaster or Barb to take their place, you better believe the Assassin is now the tank. Should we tank? No, we should not when the option is available not to. Can we tank when needed? In most cases, yes.

I by no means believe we should ever tank if someone better suited for it can. However, we are an available option for it.

Haden - Dreamweaver wrote: »

face the facts, early on around lvl 30 when people start doing bh's no one knows fully how to take care of themselves in a party. By your logic, a blademaster should be able to take care of themselves as well but typically, can't. Work smarter not harder. Its not the sin's fault you're not stunning and preventing damage. Any self healing class has the ability to "stand alone" but as per the name "Cleric" its kinda in their job discription to be damage prevention. Everyone will get overwhelmed from time to time, saying that "they should know how to do take care of themselves" is a preposterous idea. Especially in a squad, where the group is taking care of one another, not just their independent selves. Take into consideration that that Sin may one day save your neck who you told the cleric to neglect.

Well, just as a correction (as I'm sure it was just an honest mistake of hitting the wrong key), people start doing their BH's at 40+. And you are right that by my logic other classes should be able to take care of themselves by then. However, the fact is they should. Cleric's should know how to keep the tank alive, Barbs should know how to keep aggro, Venomancers should know how to not steal aggro from their pet, Archers/Wizards/Psychics should know how to manage their aggro, Blademasters and Assassins should know how to manage their own aggro as well as keep themselves alive. They have had 2+ major boss fights (being the FB19 boss and Qingzi) by the time they reach their BH level and should know how their class works.

Before Genies (and even Blood Paint), I would have agreed Blademasters need the occasional heal every so often. However, with the combination of HP foods, HP pots, Life Powder, Blood Paint, Second Wind (and Diamond Sutra for Blademasters), as well as a variety of stuns for Blademasters and sleep/freeze/stuns/seal for Assassins, they should be able to keep themselves alive against one elite mob 5+ levels lower than them.On top of all this, there are HP charms, so saying any melee class can't keep themselves alive in a BH has no excuse. By level 39, an Assassin can keep a mob of any type from barely being able to hit them just by using Throatcut, Deep Sting, and Tackling Slash (and Puncture Wound if they choose to deal some extra damage). At 59, add Headhunt to that and they can keep a mob locked up and receive very few hits at all.

In this period of PWI, a Cleric's job is to keep the tank alive. If they heal anyone else, they are only putting themselves at risk. Everyone else should be able to fend for themselves. Wizards should not be attacking a physical mob alone in a BH unless they know they can kill it before it reaches them, the same for Archers and Psychics. Venomancers have a pet to tank for them. Blademasters are plenty able to handle themselves with the two Marrow skills against most any mob. Barbs obviously can handle themselves even with multiple mobs on them. Assassins should be able to handle at least 1 mob by themselves (2-3 if they know how to play their class very well). Clerics should know how to keep the tank alive (and themselves) alive.

I am not saying I don't appreciate heals. However, I would much rather have them not heal me and let me fend for myself than put them in danger of drawing aggro should I need to Shadow Escape. What if I get ganged by three mobs in a BH, have aggro on all, and the Cleric sees my health go down and that I have hit all the mobs, and decides to heal me? Well, I might not last long, and that means I have to try to lure all the mobs away to make sure they don't go after the Cleric if I die. Assassins are meant to be able to survive on their own in the case of regular and elite mobs. Assassins are meant to save the squishy classes whenever they can. Assassins are meant to tank if there is no Barb or Blademaster to replace the tank that died. In a perfect situation, Assassins only have to look out for themselves. However, that is a very rare occurrence, and so that is when we need to be able to tank when needed, whether it is mobs or bosses.