What class is more useful in a squad?

From a personal and slightly biased opinion, I like archers.

STA is just the bomb.

Also, wizards over psychics any day of the week for me, plzthnx.

Useful? whichevers. Really depends on the players and how they gear up and how they play. If i see a nice strong geared archer that just leeroys everywhere, i say they hinder the party rather than help it. Same goes for Psychics.

Strong? in a game where you wallet does the talking...its very hard to tell nowadays tbh

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Any real archer knows how to nerf their damage as well.

I will steal a couple of times, maybe take a couple of hits before anybody gets aggro back, but knowing how to play my class, should I steal, I know to stop attacking. I don't need some silly buff to nerf my damage for me, I know how to do it myself.

I really do find the "white voodoo cause they don't steal" argument to be patronising. A good DD of any class will know that they are supposed to nerf their damage anyway, white voodoo or no. If they need a buff to help them not to steal, they need to learn how to be a DD, or stop being lazy. After all, the golden rule of a DD is know how to deal your damage without taking aggro, and what you should do if you do accidentally steal.

Ah, but not all archers are as knowledgeable as you, Airyll. It's a lot easier to tell an aggro-happy psychic to put on white voodoo than it is to explain to an aggro-happy wiz or archer how not to steal. I've run quite a few BHes where the difference was heavily felt. b:thanks

No personal attacks meant; sorry if I said something insulting. I'm just expressing my experience as a cleric, and that's why I said all DDing classes are good, if they're played right. You, obviously, play yours right. b:victory

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's not that hard to teach an archer or wizard not to steal. All you need to tell an archer, for example, it to stop for say, five seconds, every four arrows arrowed fired. Or alternatively, teach them the way I was taught:

Take them into TT, and tell them that they are to learn to control their damage. If they steal, they will die, and you will make no attempt to keep them alive should they steal. Admittedly they should know not to steal by this point already, but with BH it's questionable. I only stole once in my first TT, and it was quite accidental, but I died all the same, and then never stole again.

It isn't hard to teach a wizard and archer how not to steal, you just have to be bothered enough to give them the time and patience to get used to nerfing damage

But its way easier to just tell a psychic "use white voodoo" b:surrender

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

See where I said the part about white voodoo being everybody's ticket to being lazy.

I do hope you people realise that the newer archers and wizards wouldn't suck so much if you weren't being lazy and just telling psychics to "use white voodoo" because you can't be faffed to help the other DD classes.

Rather than complain that archers and wizards these days steal too much, you could, you know, stop being so lazy and squadding with psychics just because you can say "use white voodoo" and actually help the archers and wizzies.

I also hope you realise that a psychic being told nothing but "use white voodoo" also doesn't learn how to properly nerf damage either.

The bigger picture of all this seems to suggest it is the less productive thing you're doing when you just say "use white voodoo".

Just a few thoughts.

Doesnt change the fact that its way faster to tell the psychic "use white voodoo" instead of spending an hour + teaching someone I might not be going to squad up with ever again, who perhaps won't even want to listen, how to stay alive by avoiding getting aggro. XD

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No offence but if it takes you an hour to say "Take a break every minute or so, so you don't steal" to teach an archer/wizzy how not to steal, you're doing it wrong.

No. It takes an hour to say, take the archer all the way from whatever BH you're running to TT, convincing a squad to come along to see if the archer will or not steal aggro, etc, etc, etc.

Whats the big deal anyway? Nobody said archers aren't good DDs. Nobody said they can't know to avoid stealing aggro. Just that, between an archer, a wizard, and a psychic who DON'T KNOW HOW TO AVOID STEALING AGGRO, its easier to get the psychic to hold back. With less words, less actions, less time wasted.

I'd like to point out that in theory, the best DD is one that is on the verge of stealing aggro, always. Anything less and they're not up to their full potential.

Furthermore, Sharpened Tooth Arrow is instant, aggro-less damage. At level 10, 16% of the boss's HP gone in one shot.

Your entire argument seems to be that a failure of a psychic is less likely to kill themselves than a failure of an archer. Who cares about the failures? Either they'll learn, or they won't level or get invited to squads.

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

I'd like to point out that in theory, the best DD is one that is on the verge of stealing aggro, always. Anything less and they're not up to their full potential.

+1 to this actually.

I was really pleased when I ended up in a squad where the barb said she'd rather I steal and do my job than I nerf and do less than my potential. It's nice to get into a squad where nobody calls you a failure for stealing aggro because they recognise that if a DD can steal they're doing their jobs.

I think though it's more the people who constantly steal, and then run away from the tank and cleric and such like, these are the people who really suck. It's one thing I never did when I stole; run away from the tank, and I don't understand why people think running away from the one person who can take aggro back as well as the one person who can heal you is a smart idea.

any answer would be a matter of opinion
all classes are usefull in theire own way
personally i cannot answer the question
im just gonna say
psychics can give soul of vengance
wich helps me pesonally out allot

just saynin
psychics probably have more buffs than archers

Flickerfae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sheesh, that blossomed. b:chuckle

Airyll, I never said psychics are better because they use White Voodoo. That was a throwaway joke, about how I was fond of them, because it was so easy to tell them how not to get aggro. Yes, it was based on truth, because telling a noob Psychic "use white voodoo" is still faster than getting a noob archer or wizard to understand aggro (because, believe it or not, not everyone understands it right away). But I never said Psychics were better, and I don't think anyone else was saying that either. I'd never turn down one class for another in squad. I base my decisions on who the better player is, not which the better class is.

I value my archer friends as much as any of my other DDers. Quite a few totally kick butt at what they do. No need to defend them when most of us are already aware that archers are awesome in squad, when the player knows what they're doing.

But I will take your points and explain aggro more thoroughly to all DDing classes in the future, not jsut wizzies and archers. b:thanks

And I was not directing that post at you. The entire post you quoted from me was aimed at ZAPATON - I wasn't responding to you whatsoever because you had stopped responding.

Congratulations thinking I was talking to you, even though I had specifically quoted the very post I was really responding to.

Which DD class more useful in a squad? I think each has its merits.

Archers : Sharpened Tooth Arrow is AMAZING. This skill rocks, saves massive amounts of time on a kill, which saves potion costs, charm burn, and the like. In addition, they have Wings of Grace which is a very helpful panic button. That immunity during the animation effect gives most barbs time to reclaim aggro, and it serves as a shield for a short time incase the barb cant quickly take aggro (out of chi maybe, i dunno, i never played a barb). Archer DD is also very high which kills the bosses quickly and often, from outside AoE range.

Wizards : I never leveled a wizzy very high, but wizard damage output is incredible. I'm not really sure on survival tricks for wizards against bosses since if you distance shrink, it could make it harder for the barb to retake aggro. Still, a good wizard is amazing at speeding kills up.

Psychics : I leveled one up to the mid 50s or so so I cant really say much about them from my own experience playing one. As a cleric however when I played that, I did like having a psychic in squad simply for the Empowered Vigor skill (I think thats the name of it). With it, my squad of 5x-mid 6x was able to have a sin tank Myriadtail Wyvern with just one cleric (being me :P) since our barb had to leave right before the boss... (me thinks he was scared). As for damage, it doesn't seem anywhere near a wizards post 60 output but it still isn't bad.

Sins : Sins are... more situational I think then other DDs. AoE bosses really degrade our usefulness as we are squishy and melee. We can use a bow, but if your gonna bring a DD using a bow, why the hell did you not ask for an archer? We do have some helpful skills though. We can decrease attack rate which lessens barbs repair costs, lessens the amount clerics have to spam heal which in turn decreases their costs. We also can amp the boss (which stacks with heavens flame) for some seconds of major asskickery. We also can spam spark burst which allows for some good DPS. If a sin takes aggro, they just gotta shadow escape and the aggro for the sin disappears. I wonder... whats bloodpaint like for a fist BM endgame?


All in all, every DD class brings something to the table. I don't discriminate and I never did as a cleric either (unless I knew the person was a moron). For outright killing though, I personally love having an archer along. And that's the main point of a DD, to make the enemies die.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And I was not directing that post at you. The entire post you quoted from me was aimed at ZAPATON - I wasn't responding to you whatsoever because you had stopped responding.

Congratulations thinking I was talking to you, even though I had specifically quoted the very post I was really responding to.

Yes, but it was my joke that started this whole fiasco. Zapaton was just building on it, and he wasn't saying Psychics were better either. So, really, my point still stands. That's all I'll say on it; feel free to get the last word, if you want. b:chuckle

But yeah, back to the OP.

I think what can be gleaned is this: Psychic or Archer, it doesn't matter, as long as you know how to play it.

I suggest the OP try both, and just stick with whichever one he likes more. After all, you do get 8 characters per server. Why not experiment? b:victory