My Opinion On Guilds

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · March 2010

WitchBurner - Sanctuary wrote: »

I prefer to you know, hang with friends, left to play at my own pace in my own way. Just using the guild itself as a friend list, only asking for physical help for group instances.

I hate to be talked down to by some snobby guild member who assumes superiority over people because of level / guild position.

I especially hate anyone who talks to people like some kind of tech support person saying **** like 'How may I help you?' instead of 'With what?/What?' when I ask for something.

I hate guilds that try and change people from being individual players to being respected, polite, mature people.

Thing is, is that sometimes even the people that 'talk down' to others, sometimes know a bit more about what they are talking about then the people trying to defend/tear up someone's opinion. Though that is just my opinion, and yes those people that 'talk down' to others are indeed rude... and .. very unlikeable.

Lol, yea people who ask it like that, are quite... strange, but really if people would say what they need help on, it would prevent people from having to ask what they need help on, which is indeed as I am sure you know/realize is very annoying.

While you are right, no guild/person should try to change people from rude obnoxious fools, into princess's/prince's;however, I do believe that no ONE should get away with being rude/disrespectful to any guild/person, time after time after time especially if they ARE the officials of a guild. While it may sound like I am saying they should rule with an 'iron' fist, that is not exactly what I mean, some leniency is ALWAYS good, but seriously if you see multiple members from a specific guild being rude, and getting away with it, then surely your opinion of that guild will slowly but surely be a... bad one, even if it is gradually. To see officers getting away with it is FAR FAR worse, as silentsilver mentioned they should be far more level-headed, and blow off a lot more then members should. Sure they may still get members, etc, but they could definitely get a lot more, if there guild is respectful, no one likes being stressed out, and hearing a friend say "soandso from YOUR guild, was a complete and total ******* / *****" it really does put you in a pickle, or perhaps they kept kill stealing someone while they were busy doing a quest. (I know the last is bit of a bad example, but it does reflect badly on the guild as a WHOLE, not just on one person, especially if it is a repeat offense.

Oh and one more thing, I feel that sometimes it is better to show that something is happening, rather then trying to keep the punishment hush... hush so to speak. I am not saying make an example out of him or her, but throwing a wc... or taking an apology to the people (affected) goes a long ways for peoples opinions/feelings... respect towards certain guilds... or perhaps just a single person.

I really don't mean to single you out, or try to 'discredit' your opinion, just trying to give another point of view to it. ^^

As matter as fact I know I make mistakes, I am human as is EVERY guild leader out there, but few seem to be willing to admit to there own wrong doings... or the wrong doings of there guild.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary · March 2010

silentsliver wrote: »

I expect people to already have tried that.

b:shocked I'm supposed to play on **** graphics & have game look like **** just for some vent where i wont even be active but for.... um w/e reason u stated. I quite enjoy the visual aspects, nice animations & effects... ty.

I understand where u're coming from with trying to organize a guild like that... But u'll need to have one heck of a good incentive for ppl to follow your rules (likes already owning half the map *which i assume u dont* & threatening to take away huge pay tw paychecks, etc)

Don't forget this is still a game... U're supposed to have fun. Most of the ppl in tihs thread are already going b:shocked just from reading the guide... Don't think that's thier idea of fun...

Originally Posted by WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Witch rofl u don't even play anymore.... Or am i mistaken...

Sinalee - Dreamweaver · March 2010

hmm agree on many of ur tuts, but deffinatly not on em all. I have now been runnign a faction since before xmas i think. I agree on the randome members shoudl not be given an officer position, personally i take those who just by nature are friendly, helpful, and other good qualities. I DO NOT agree on the vent stuff =x, also ppl shouldn't be forced to do stuff, at least not all of it. Vent can be an option if u want to be part of TW, but not for just having fun, plus ppl fast learn how to type fast in game.

Im against having a set number of rules writen down on paper, in the end what works the best is if ppl learn as a natural part of being in the fact, what to do and what not to do. The first faction i was in sort of "admitted" that things weren't going well, the day our director had to add writen rules on our forum. Common sense is all i ask of my members, which should include being nice to others members or not.

If problems show up, i take it up with the ppl having a problem.

Trayous - Sanctuary · March 2010

A faction is only as good as the people who are in it.

Everything depends on how you like to play the game.

A good group of people dont need a leader or officers to tell them what to do or how to play.

Having enough members who play on your time slot goes along way.

Playing with like minded people makes the game more fun.

All above aplpies to NONE TW

If you want to TW then yes some organisational skill will go along way but over doing it can have adverse effects. Faction becomes strict - members being forced to participate in things they dont want to etc.

I would guess and only guess the majority play for pleasure and dont want it to be like real life . Its there escape from all that hastle you get from real life so why bring it into a game .

Kaneharo - Dreamweaver · March 2010

X.x Much too many rules, dude. It's a game. having everyone using Vent would cause lag, whether they have Best Performance on or not. And having a Human Resources Dept? You're running a faction, not a office building. with as many rules as you have, it seems like you're trying to only recruit contradicting, bureaucratic nuns. Truthfully, there are a few basic rules for a faction, even a PvP one:

Don't ask for ranks
Don't start drama
Don't cause trouble with players outside your faction(as in being a complete jerk in BH runs)
Don't be discriminatory or disrepectful to your fellow faction members,
Don't cause WC problems(such as starting a ****-bashing rampage on World Chat)
Stay as active as possible without interfering with real life.

Have a few additional rules and/or a few variations on these, and you shouldn't have too many problems with having nice people in a faction. cause chances are, if they don't like at least two of these rules, they won't likely stay very long.

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver · March 2010

This guy might be a member of the USMC but he is also a member of the USTC...if you wanna know what I mean, just pm me...

Honestly though...your grammar and spelling are horrible...where are you from? I pray that it was just ignorance on your part, and not on the schools today. However, I believe that a lot of public schools are passing students with lower and lower grades in the name of political correctness and tolerance...

didi · March 2010

IMHO, majority of people will contribute to a one guild or another. He or she may not be what we are looking for, but they are likely to be what others are looking for.

Just because we don't understand does not mean there isn't a reason behind it.

Granrey - Sanctuary · March 2010

I pretty much agree with OP but you have to understand this is a game.

However, the guild issues can be fixed by pwi. I wish there were some "public" guilds in which people vote periodicly to select the leader and the other positions.

Quite confident those guilds would eventually be better for people who wants more hardcore play from the game.

Seamuss - Heavens Tear · March 2010

I myself am torn with what I want in a faction.

I can definately agree that a TW faction needs more organization and leadership than most casual or social factions. There should be a limit to rules and enforcement however,since even a TW faction is a "game" play experience.

I have been in factions (guilds) in several MMO's and have experienced many types. The militant to the childish. The best experience was with in a different MMo(nameless) that had a very cool leader. He did play quite alot and was extremely involved in most aspects of his guild. He did so with personality and not with an ironfist and was loved and respected by 90% of the members. His qualties were rare,as I have since experienced and know that I myself could not compare.

One thing I have been finding myself wishing for was the ability to belong to more than one guild. It would be nice to have a social place as well as a more goal oriented group to hang out .I realize that in PW ,and almost exclusively because of TW ,this would not work.It just something I would personally enjoy.

In the end,I have been the most comfortable in my faction that includes friends that I have made and group with often. There isnt much there as far as rules or real leadership,however it is a helluva lot of fun.

I think that overall MMO's just dont have a large player base who likes to totally controll or be controlled for any goal. A little is needed,but can quickly turn sour as noone NEEDS to play to exist. That's what RL is better suited for.

Airyll - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Good luck trying to keep members in your guild.

You know, while we're here, tell me what server you're on and the name of this guild if you happen to be on Dreamweaver, so I know to avoid your guild.

There's nothing wrong with PK. PK happens to be the same as PvP by the way. You know, you PK in PvP? So your **** about "No PK, PvP is fine" is the biggest bull in history and you might want to consider, you know, playing the game.

Because you clearly haven't if you think PvP comes without PK.

Also, if I run into an **** on this game, and they are one of these "I really suck but will blame everybody else for all of my fails" nutcases, damn right I will snap at them when they start giving people grief. My current faction is one that doesn't allow being a jerk for no reason, but the instant some moron in a squad starts to fail and gives everybody else lectures and grief about it, I'm entitled to be an **** right back at them, tell them how much they fail and, if I happen to be squad leader, give them the boot swiftly afterwards. So your "No trash talk make a good rep for the guild so never say a bad word against anybody" rule you have around there somewhere sucks big ones.

And that's just two points I can make about some of the ridiculous rules you have there.

There are a few rules I agree with, that any good faction also enforces. Did you know if a guild leader tells you the aim of their guild is to have fun, they could very well be making sure they don't let just anybody recruit? No?

Chyeah. Go back, play the game, learn the terms and meanings [because no PK but sure PvP is the most ridiculous thing you wrote in there and shows you have little grasp of this game] and maybe stop insinuating a guild that's there to have fun is not doing a single thing you wrote on there. Because the majority are, and from the way you sound, they might very well be doing it better.

Samsoul - Lost City · March 2010

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes, you should never allow zero-tolerance to drama, because without it things are boring.

You kidding?! I looooove guild drama.

:

<

<

huge drama queen b:cute

loveyabye.

silentsliver · March 2010

Editing first post to beter convey my thoughts and because I have some time, clear up the misunderstandings some people have on my post.

I_sage_i - Harshlands · March 2010

WitchBurner - Sanctuary wrote: »

I hate those professional, srs bsns guilds that have stupid rules or punishments.

I prefer to you know, hang with friends, left to play at my own pace in my own way. Just using the guild itself as a friend list, only asking for physical help for group instances.

I hate to be talked down to by some snobby guild member who assumes superiority over people because of level / guild position.

I especially hate anyone who talks to people like some kind of tech support person saying **** like 'How may I help you?' instead of 'With what?/What?' when I ask for something.

I hate guilds that try and change people from being individual players to being respected, polite, mature people.

I like guilds where people can relax, and play the game rather than get too emotional over the game.

Guilds where no rules are enforced beyond the usual ToS in the game.

Guilds with decent pvpers who know what to do in most situations, and use guerilla warfare style pvp over gank style. (Guerilla is more, dirty fighting in small numbers to thin out larger groups)

I like banter as long as it doesn't get too immature. The only guild members I don't get along with are stupid people, anti-social people, carebear people, wannabe pvpers that switch sides when they lose, cash shoppers(major ones), braggers, whiney people, all talk cowards, prudish/soccer momish people etc.

As for Ventrilo, it doesn't bother me if people don't use it, but it does help you to make social connections and usually provides entertainment for grinding.

As for the people I hang out with on vent, we're a mixture. Americans, ANZAC's, UK. Time zone doesn't come into much, there's usually a point in time when everyone's on at once.

hate to say it but you have no room to talk you'r on a pve serverb:chuckleb:shutup

Aaragontium - Sanctuary · March 2010

You ask 'What is the goal of your guild' and then fail to answer that very question. The guild you presented is one that might possibly modify the map. A military organization.

Much of the criticism here is based upon the fact that most guilds have no intention of challenging land ownership. They are of the most prolific. They hang out and chat. The guild organization actually follows a predictable pattern in numbers, activity, and ultimately, lifespan. The military pattern is not needed or wanted.

Some guilds follow the club pattern. Similar to the childhood play of "I'm cool and I'm going to let you into my club". This has potential as a short lived group of friends.

Then there are folks who are convinced they are destined to be great leaders. They prove it by starting their very own one-man-guild. On a good day, you may see up to three active members online at the same time.

The leadership pattern, although not militaristic in nature, does have elements of control. For instance, you are going to be in this guild. And you are going to like it. It could be said that the leadership pattern is a more mature version of the club pattern.

Both the club and leadership pattern are marked with random acts of ninja invites.

Then there are the real guilds. These could be groups of friends that developed into a goad oriented guild. Friends online come and go. But for the guild that survives the test of time, there is usually something more that holds it together. A recognizable purpose.

silentsliver · March 2010

Awesome comments everyone keep them up.
Thank you for your contributions
My guild would be a mature guild, PvP players can join up, it is planned to survive and unlike your comments has survived many a MMO.
I do base my posts off of some facts. My old post and my opinion is for a PvP faction warfare guild setup.
where players are to build like a family but also treat each other civil and come together for one main goal of conquering territory competitively.

Guilds I have made survive for years for the reason that it has the infrastructure to survive that span of time.
A working paid website, Ventrillo options, and a flexible system of dealing with problems.
Most of all I am fair and very understanding. Not ordering my members to do anything I would not do. I am no tyrant.

meetjazz · March 2010

I quess people which taking this game to serious would join such gulid. I think for a good gulid you dont need much else as a gulid leader...to '' break the ice '' with gulid members. Most of the factions have somekind dead atmosphere and i quess in a gulid with so many rules..people would be to scare even to say something.
Im in a lvl now where i could join a little bit better factions, but to be honest im really more happy to be in a gulid where are even lower lvl's welcome, since they dont tend to bash people with rules, lvl..and they don't forget that this is just a game.

silentsliver · March 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Good luck trying to keep members in your guild.

You know, while we're here, tell me what server you're on and the name of this guild if you happen to be on Dreamweaver, so I know to avoid your guild.

There's nothing wrong with PK. PK happens to be the same as PvP by the way. You know, you PK in PvP? So your **** about "No PK, PvP is fine" is the biggest bull in history and you might want to consider, you know, playing the game.

Because you clearly haven't if you think PvP comes without PK.

Also, if I run into an **** on this game, and they are one of these "I really suck but will blame everybody else for all of my fails" nutcases, damn right I will snap at them when they start giving people grief. My current faction is one that doesn't allow being a jerk for no reason, but the instant some moron in a squad starts to fail and gives everybody else lectures and grief about it, I'm entitled to be an **** right back at them, tell them how much they fail and, if I happen to be squad leader, give them the boot swiftly afterwards. So your "No trash talk make a good rep for the guild so never say a bad word against anybody" rule you have around there somewhere sucks big ones.

And that's just two points I can make about some of the ridiculous rules you have there.

There are a few rules I agree with, that any good faction also enforces. Did you know if a guild leader tells you the aim of their guild is to have fun, they could very well be making sure they don't let just anybody recruit? No?

Chyeah. Go back, play the game, learn the terms and meanings [because no PK but sure PvP is the most ridiculous thing you wrote in there and shows you have little grasp of this game] and maybe stop insinuating a guild that's there to have fun is not doing a single thing you wrote on there. Because the majority are, and from the way you sound, they might very well be doing it better.

PK from where I come from is killing a player who is not willing to be killed or who is much lower level than yourself. It is looked down upon and is just cowardly. PvP is duels and TW's, not bullying lower level players trying to level.

You have your opinion I have mine. Remember I came from a well run and highly powerfull guild ran in this same way, I was second in command and our members 425 RL people not including alts, all got along quite well. PK to us was piracy and not right, real PVP is going aginst a willing opponent.

You are false in saying that I said NEVER. Which i did not say. Fight maturely, if someone begins trash talking you, but do not sink to their low level. You do not need to be rude back, simply good bye and kick him/her, why waste your breath or time?
I personally would not let you join the guild and you would not pass the recruiting process.
Just my opinion.
If you dont like a way of guild running then you have the freedom to not join simple as that.
I dont make a "club" I make something that will last with the game, and change with the game. I make a community, a family, and only wish that my members gain respect and their gameing experience is expanded because of my hard work.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · March 2010

meetjazz wrote: »

I quess people which taking this game to serious would join such gulid. I think for a good gulid you dont need much else as a gulid leader...to '' break the ice '' with gulid members. Most of the factions have somekind dead atmosphere and i quess in a gulid with so many rules..people would be to scare even to say something.
Im in a lvl now where i could join a little bit better factions, but to be honest im really more happy to be in a gulid where are even lower lvl's welcome, since they dont tend to bash people with rules, lvl..and they don't forget that this is just a game.

There is such a thing as too much fun.

A guild whether it be COMPETITIVE... (like the one silentsilver is describing) or a 'fun' one, the 'fun' can easily be ruined by members running rampant, and doing whatever the hell they feel like with little to no repercussion. Although yes it is true that even though you don't see something going on it doesn't mean nothing is happening; however, as I said earlier, sometimes its better to SHOW something IS being done.

Too much leniency is really a bad thing imho, it can hurt guilds that really want to be there long term. I mean would you rather go on a bh/tt/fc/lunar run with respectful/nice people, or rude ones who think they can do no wrong? I would pray you choose the former. Just because people are nice and respectful it does NOT mean they aren't fun, as matter as fact I feel that I have met plenty of fun, nice respectful people on this game from ALL factions, whether they are competitive or a 'fun' guild. Also one more thing... likewise... like I said earlier... no one wants a good friend to pm them and say "soandso was a complete *******/***** to me," and to agree with them and then be conflicted if you bring it up to a officer, and have nothing happen. =x

Anyways that's just my two cents.

Btw, silentsilver, nice job on the edit of you OP (original post).... much... much ... more approachable, and likable. ^^

silentsliver · March 2010

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is such a thing as too much fun.

A guild whether it be COMPETITIVE... (like the one silentsilver is describing) or a 'fun' one, the 'fun' can easily be ruined by members running rampant, and doing whatever the hell they feel like with little to no repercussion. Although yes it is true that even though you don't see something going on it doesn't mean nothing is happening; however, as I said earlier, sometimes its better to SHOW something IS being done.

Too much leniency is really a bad thing imho, it can hurt guilds that really want to be there long term. I mean would you rather go on a bh/tt/fc/lunar run with respectful/nice people, or rude ones who think they can do no wrong? I would pray you choose the former. Just because people are nice and respectful it does NOT mean they aren't fun, as matter as fact I feel that I have met plenty of fun, nice respectful people on this game from ALL factions, whether they are competitive or a 'fun' guild.

Anyways that's just my two cents.

Btw, silentsilver, nice job on the edit of you OP (original post).... much... much ... more approachable, and likable. ^^

Thank you very much. *hugs* seems to be the first post not yelling at me for my opinion. ^^
I do have a question If I were to make a tutorial for PW, a more advanced one than in-game who should I talk to about information I don't know yet?
Or has there been a .PDF file created yet? Do not want to do a job that has already been done.
Always looking to help the community in any way I can.

overstuffed · March 2010

b:surrender

Excuse me while i do a little test..

b:chuckle

Thanks! Test completed..
b:thanks

Yindra - Sanctuary · March 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with PK. PK happens to be the same as PvP by the way.

No. PvP in general requires you to click "Accept", enter a specially crafted PvP map or do other things that put you into PvP mode. If you DON'T do any of the above, no PvP will occur.

PK does NOT require you to accept/any action on your side. Everyone can just walk up to you and attack.

For that reason, I never play games that force PK on people, one way or the other (just one exception, but that's because I thought non-PK channels were non-PK when I started the game. They do, however, have a so-called nation-war that's active in maps lvl 95+, no matter whether it's a PK-channel or not --- and simply NOT joining a nation makes it even worse, since you're basically a one-man-nation then with everyone being your "enemy". I still didn't play in those 95+ maps, though, which pretty much limited my level and access to gear. Last time I played I was 117, and decided that the exp gain in the lvl 80 map is "finally" waaaay too low).

I really don't care about PvP --- the game can have lots of PvP stuff, if I'm not forced to participate it's alright. In fact, in all games that have the option, duel-requests are autorejected.

PK forces me, so that's a no-way. And in fact, PWI does NOT force PvP on people, it's completely optional (if you can choose to create a character on a non-PK server, then playing on a PK-enabled server is still a choice you made, not a choice that was forced on you. Same with games that have things like nations that you can choose NOT to join to stay out of wars and related things).

For a short time I was considering trying a game that had PK enabled --- but in order to PK you had to use a cash item. And I didn't know PWI at the time, which shows that people pay tons of cash for useless things like world chat, so I was assuming that there wouldn't be a lot of PKing. Still, I never ended up playing, probably for some other reason I don't remember.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · March 2010

Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »

No. PvP in general requires you to click "Accept", enter a specially crafted PvP map or do other things that put you into PvP mode. If you DON'T do any of the above, no PvP will occur.

PvP is player vs player... it does not necessarily exclude PK. Dueling is not really PvP, it's a duel.

Toxic - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

PvP is player vs player... it does not necessarily exclude PK. Dueling is not really PvP, it's a duel.

I don't get it b:chuckle

silentsliver · March 2010

I got a list here many of you should look at.
http://www.guildlaunch.com/blog/?p=68
It is simply put a well run and expected system that works, my system of doing stuff runs like this list explains. Rules are helpfull and help lower confusion when the time comes.

On another note.
PKing is not PvP in that it requires only one party, PvP is two parties (factions or single members like in a duel) who have both accepted the challenge to fight eachother.

Pking is looked down upon by me because it is normally done to lower lvl players, and it really is just a form of bullying in MMO's
If you want to kill some one, go get a player your level and who is a PvPer and fight him/her or join a TW guild.

Dont kill a player who is just questing for the fun of it. It's immature and uncalled for. Thats really not PvP when there really was no chance of the other person winning at all.

My Opinion On Guilds

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