for the lovely math pros in the archer forums...

Alina_Star - Heavens Tear
Alina_Star - Heavens Tear Posts: 4 Arc User
edited July 2010 in Archer
ok, I keep hearing this when I talk to people about higher level sharding... yes, I know, I have a long way to go, etc... but I'm working on a new archer- and I keep hearing "calculate your base damage"... someone was comparing a Diamond of Tiger versus a Garnet stone of some kind, I think???

How do you "calculate your base damage" on an archer? Just so I know later.

I asked the two guys in faction chat, but they just laughed at me.... TY!
Post edited by Alina_Star - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Diamond of Tiger is useless as long as you have only 1 or 2. The increase will never, ever, be equal to that of good garnets.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Alina_Star - Heavens Tear
    Alina_Star - Heavens Tear Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Okay, I see what you're saying- but it didn't apply to the original question. I wasn't asking about the stones- I was using those in reference to a conversation...

    My question was about calculating the base damage of an archer, and how it is done.

    TY =)
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Okay, I see what you're saying- but it didn't apply to the original question. I wasn't asking about the stones- I was using those in reference to a conversation...

    My question was about calculating the base damage of an archer, and how it is done.

    TY =)

    The damage formula for damage on Archers is something like this:

    (Weapon Attack + Adds)*(1+Skills+(Dex/150))

    Where Adds is the +physical attack on all of your gear, including the mods on the weapon, the shards, your rings and other possible sources and Skills means the +% added by skills such as Bow Mastery and Blazing Arrow and Dex is of course the amount of dexterity that you have.

    It's been theorized that Attack Level comes as a multiplier to all of that, which would make the formula into this:

    (Weapon Attack + Adds)*(1+Skills+(Dex/150))*(1+Attack Level)

    Notice that Weapon Attack is not the base physical attack. This can be clearly seen because of skills such as Barrage, which explicitly state that they add both base physical damage and weapon damage.

    TL;DR: Base Physical Damage = Weapon + Physical Attack from gear.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver
    Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Hmm just add the % to the number you hit for
  • EvAxx - Sanctuary
    EvAxx - Sanctuary Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Diamond of Tiger is useless as long as you have only 1 or 2. The increase will never, ever, be equal to that of good garnets.

    That would mean garnets are always better than Diamond of Tiger -.-
  • Illyana - Dreamweaver
    Illyana - Dreamweaver Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    (Weapon Attack + Adds)*(1+Skills+(Dex/150))*(1+Attack Level)

    As far as I can tell, this is the formula:
    Damage Per Hit: (DPH) (for ranged weapons)
    ((1+(2/3*Dex)/100)*Masteries)*(Lvl + EQA) + Weapon Atk*(firemastery/100) +ElementalShardDmg)*(1+(Crit Rate+1)/100)*(1+Attack Level/100)

    Damage Per Second:
    DPH * Attacks per second (APS)

    Equipment Attack (EQA) is the average of low and high end of your weapon + refines + garnet shard added dmg + added damage from ornaments and ammo. Weapon Atk as far as I know is only the average damage of your weapon.

    There are additional mods that also apply involving terrain (ground <-> water = 1/2 dmg, air <-> ground = 1/2 dmg) as well as a minimum effective distance. There is an attack modifier for PvP as well, which does not apply to attack charms (i.e. when used on a player they'll add full damage).

    This will give you raw damage dealt, which will be lower depending on the specific defenses of whatever you're attacking.

    This was probably more than you wanted to know, and probably not 100% accurate.
    5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The damage multiple means a Garnet will have a larger effect than DoT. Edited earlier post where I forgot about that thingy for some reason.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

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  • Illyana - Dreamweaver
    Illyana - Dreamweaver Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I have attempted to fix your post for you.

    Blazing arrow is not modified by user's level, so it should not be in any damage factor that multiplies it by level, which is why it is included outside of the standard damage calculation. I did take out spark and forgot to put it back in though b:surrender. Elemental shards were not included in your formula.

    I also added one to the critical chance as everyone has 1% chance to crit without dex and crit modifiers, but if we just say "actual critical chance" your formula is more accurate.

    Revised:
    DPH (ranged) Average:
    ((1+(2*Dex/300)+bow mastery+spark)*(Lvl + EQA)+ EQA*(Blazing Arrow/100) + Elemental Shards)*(1+Attack Level/100) * (1 + critical chance / 100)

    Damage Per Second (average):

    DPH * Attacks per second (APS)

    I keep critical hits in the DPH as crits are naturally occurring with regular attacks, but the DPS result is the same. I've revised the title of the DPH to be DPH (Average) to be more accurate, but I assumed an average since we already averaged the weapons low and high values.
    5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver
  • KageYingZi - Heavens Tear
    KageYingZi - Heavens Tear Posts: 823 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    the Atk Level part shld be (1+((atk lvl of yourself-defense level of target)/100))
    or am i wrongb:puzzled.
    Because u get 1%(1/100) more dmg for each Atk Level over the target's defense lvl.
    Mayb it shldnt be in the formula since atk level will affect the overall dmg including adds from ur skills
  • Illyana - Dreamweaver
    Illyana - Dreamweaver Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    But blazing arrow gives you a percent of your "weapon attack".

    And, your level is a part of your damage from your weapon attack.

    If you take a screenshot of your character sheet before you level and again after you level, you will see that your physical attack goes up when you level. The amount your physical attack goes up will be (1 + 2 * dex / 300).

    If you spark before you level and you spark after you level, and you examine your character sheet (with the same gear, obviously) you will see the same difference, except with a bonus based on your spark multiplier.

    If you want me to believe that blazing arrow does not follow the same rules, I would like you to provide me with some reason to believe you.

    Unfortunately, level 102 is many 10s of millions of experience away. Your level does influence your damage, but it does not change your weapon damage. Proving this, even with a low level character would be exceptionally difficult as the margins on a per level gain would be small and would require many many hits to reach a level of significance AND a significant amount of stat redistribution scrolls to unalloate stat points. In short, I've better things to do with my time and coin.

    We all know skill descriptions are not 100% accurate-- hell, sage blazing arrow description was changed in game when it was perfectly accurate. However, every account of the skill I've read says that the skill increases damage by XX% of your weapon damage. If we are to take this literally (which is dangerous, given the erroneous nature of skill descriptions), it means that this is the EQA average of the weapon alone, not modified by ornaments, attack charms or shot.

    I think we'll agree to disagree since neither of us can prove the other incorrect. Since it is elemental damage we're talking about, I calculate it along side shard elemental damage. In the end, the difference in damage between the two proposed formulas is so small it isn't even worth debating.
    5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver
  • Lunk_Warleg - Sanctuary
    Lunk_Warleg - Sanctuary Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Woow! * Looks at Cyanea and Illyana* some debating that it not resorts to pushy arguments and tension. Altho rude comments on archer forums seems to be a bit less of a preoccupation, is still nice to see some mature way of discussing opinions.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • infamnous
    infamnous Posts: 0
    edited July 2010
    o-o esh i got lost b:surrenderb:cry
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Necro Necro Necro.
    b:surrender
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
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    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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  • Teppeii - Dreamweaver
    Teppeii - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,206 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    inb4konariassassination =3
    On indefinite hiatus :3
  • Esnemyl - Dreamweaver
    Esnemyl - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,079 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    inb4konariassassination =3

    *smacks the necromancer*
    already ****-assinated (bad pun -_-')
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]<3 by Silvy
    Reborn ditzy archer with a serious oreo addiction =3

    '...cuz my IQ is just above what is required to function as a human' - tsumaru2