Clerics and pots saving

Illusionista - Heavens Tear · March 2010

For one, though a cleric is "supposed" to be healing everyone in the squad and keeping everyone alive at their own expense, you really are not taking into consideration how much mana we burn at higher levels...but that's not the point.

I think people should be using pots to save their own asses when the going gets tough or you are concentrating on the tank, in, say... an actually CHALLENGING instance. If you die and complain about a cleric not healing you when the cleric himself/herself is dying, you deserve to die. Oh, maybe you should've popped a pot? (And if you did, then I guess you were meant to die anyway...Sorry :<)

Another thing I absolutely hate is when people run all over the place and expect to get healed or saved when you are either too busy or NO WHERE NEAR THEM. No, I'm sorry, but if you don't even have the common decency to realize that clerics aren't FAST (especially after we've used Holy Path AND popped a speed pot), you deserve to die...especially if you complain about it after (if you complain about me not doing my "job", you're not getting a ress either).

While using pots might be considered an insult to a cleric-ego (personally, I don't mind when people do since it saves me the trouble of healing/switching target), I think of it as more of a relief of duty--then the cleric can focus on other things. In my experience, when venos use soul transfusion, they normally tell me (or pot)...so I see no issue with this... depending on when the transfuse happens... XD Plus, I pot when my HP goes down--it's my own expense and I choose to do it. If people choose to use their pots, then it's not my problem! It only is if they start complaining about it~

But in general, I pay attention to everyone's HP bars (sometimes forgetting about my own though this has never been an issue for me...XD). If you're going to be two shot, no amount of heals are going to save you... but in general, I try to keep people in my squads buffed and healed. 'less I don't like you...then you die! X3

Ursa - Dreamweaver · March 2010

it's funny how some clerics think their only purpose is to heal tank.
No, your purpose is to keep tank alive without **** his charm and also save the lives of the squad members in distress. THAT IS WHY YOU'VE BEEN INVITED INTO THE SQUAD IN THE FIRST PLACE!, not for other uber skills you might think you have.
Yesterday we ran a BH89 eden with Barb, veno, BM and 3 wizards. 2 wizards healing a lvl 90 tank ( one was enough, but we did it with two for comfort - he never ticked) and BM + veno DD, 3rd wizard heal on BM+veno if needed.
Then we continued with the same setup for the following BH79, that was even easier. I solo healed 95+ barbs in Heaven multiple times and I dunno how many times I did it in 79, twice I think only with a 95+ BM tanking it.
Purpose of this e-peen text? Clerics are needed, but not always necesary. When you get into a squad do your job or just GTFO.
Clerics that don't heal their squad are a fail to the same lvl as the mages that are meditating during boss or archers that go on auto-attk and forget to STA a TT boss.

Of couse, all the above is not for instances where someone does some stupid thing and dies or causes a party wipe. But those are exceptions from the rule.

rogerp · March 2010

my friend as a good experience squads know your primary function is to heal tank, i make it a rule that if someone dies because of there careless lack of concentration they have to wait till open chance to rev so i let them die to show them that with out you they cant not dob:laugh must people when they play they also act reckless if they get mad at u keep letting them die i found out that the experience is must rewarding to you and to them because the fact of the matter is that the cleric is the ultimate squad commander you need to set the rule or else they can do it on their own b:cry and they soon find out they cant

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · March 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it's funny how some clerics think their only purpose is to heal tank.
No, your purpose is to keep tank alive without **** his charm and also save the lives of the squad members in distress. THAT IS WHY YOU'VE BEEN INVITED INTO THE SQUAD IN THE FIRST PLACE!, not for other uber skills you might think you have.
Yesterday we ran a BH89 eden with Barb, veno, BM and 3 wizards. 2 wizards healing a lvl 90 tank ( one was enough, but we did it with two for comfort - he never ticked) and BM + veno DD, 3rd wizard heal on BM+veno if needed.
Then we continued with the same setup for the following BH79, that was even easier. I solo healed 95+ barbs in Heaven multiple times and I dunno how many times I did it in 79, twice I think only with a 95+ BM tanking it.
Purpose of this e-peen text? Clerics are needed, but not always necesary. When you get into a squad do your job or just GTFO.
Clerics that don't heal their squad are a fail to the same lvl as the mages that are meditating during boss or archers that go on auto-attk and forget to STA a TT boss.

Of couse, all the above is not for instances where someone does some stupid thing and dies or causes a party wipe. But those are exceptions from the rule.

They still can't heal as well as Cleric and what about buffs.I can do 4 IHs before a Wiz get 1 Morning Dew off.

LTraveller - Dreamweaver · March 2010

When I run instances as a cleric, I DD (on regular mobs; on bosses, when I'm not the primary healer) whenever I have the opportunity, in addition to healing tank and DDs. How much does it cost me? Strangely enough, not much. I rarely burn more than 3 5kmp pots on a Gluttonix or Ofotis run, for example. That's less than illusion stone fee. And if you're not lv75 yet, grab some realgar on your way from BH to Archo, near Stairway to Heaven / Silver Pool: 8 lv2 herb patches next to each other. 2 realgar + 1 golden herb = 3kmp.

Nexdonuum - Lost City · March 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it's funny how some clerics think their only purpose is to heal tank.
No, your purpose is to keep tank alive without **** his charm

Stopped taking you seriously here. Get off your high horse you dumb ****.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · March 2010

good, now you have more time to learn the classes and GTFO

Quilue - Sanctuary · March 2010

here's the thing tho...1 sage/demon iron heart costs 400 mana, but can heal for 5k+ hp. a lvl 90 hp pot heals 1880 hp, a lvl 90 mp pot heals for 2350 mp. do i want to eat 2 or more hp pots to make up that 5k hp or get healed for 1 ironheart? its more economical to have the cleric heal than to have people pot. next time just ask for mp pots from the squad.

Aya__ - Heavens Tear · March 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i
[...]
Purpose of this e-peen text? Clerics are needed, but not always necesary. When you get into a squad do your job or just GTFO.
[...]

There are only 2 skills clerics have that no other class does:
1) purify - and some genie skills do puri some kinds of DOTs and debuffs, also 3spark removes debuffs
2) revive - and anyone can carry res scroll and ga on him / her

So, although a cleric is most effective in the long run as a healer / purifier and res by cleric is by far cheapest for the receiver (and no real cooldown for it either save cooldown for actual skill) its true you dont absolutely need clerics in this game. Basically any class can be replaced by some other class or combination of them. Im not sure proving that (in case anyone needed such proof) was the intended purpose of this thread tho...

EDIT: forgot about buffs, but you can get them from other sources too, besides they dont always make difference between life and death, just from time to time. If clerics were needed only for buffs youd get them off me then kick me from the squad :P

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There are only 2 skills clerics have that no other class does:
1) purify - and some genie skills do puri some kinds of DOTs and debuffs, also 3spark removes debuffs
2) revive - and anyone can carry res scroll and ga on him / her

So, although a cleric is most effective in the long run as a healer / purifier and res by cleric is by far cheapest for the receiver (and no real cooldown for it either save cooldown for actual skill) its true you dont absolutely need clerics in this game. Basically any class can be replaced by some other class or combination of them. Im not sure proving that (in case anyone needed such proof) was the intended purpose of this thread tho...

EDIT: forgot about buffs, but you can get them from other sources too, besides they dont always make difference between life and death, just from time to time. If clerics were needed only for buffs youd get them off me then kick me from the squad :P

Would like to add permanent 50% damage reduction to the list. You can do BB most of the time uninterupted, but you cannot keep using the damage reduction apth.

Aya__ - Heavens Tear · March 2010

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Would like to add permanent 50% damage reduction to the list. You can do BB most of the time uninterupted, but you cannot keep using the damage reduction apth.

Well, yes, sure, but its actually the same for other skills i wrote about: other methods of getting desired effect can be applied and will work, at least for a while. Clerics are simply better at healing / purifying / our buffs / ressing in the long run. As it should be, its OUR skill tree, our specialty.
Ursa was saying 'we can successfully complete quests without clerics' which ofc is true... i just dont know what he / she was trying to prove with that. I agree that you dont need cleric to hold your hand through entire game. I agree there are bad clerics out there and squad may be better off without them. So yes, he / she said something we all knew already... so what?
Imo the first post was about something else - about people saving money at the expense of clerics. I dont really agree with OP here - i do my best to keep squad alive and buffed and at hp as close to full as possible. My heals are faster and more effective and have shorter cooldown than pots. When i created this char i already knew clerics are very expensive class to play mp-wise, and accepted this, i only complain about my costs when ppl are standing and looking pretty when my charm ticks away in bb

Or when somebody cries about one tick of his hp charm when i burned a lot more from mine. But i expect squad to use common sense - and that may require using pots form time to time. I can be out of range or too busy to take care of whole squad - and then not using pots to save themselves isnt even cheap but rather stupid.

Tryagain - Harshlands · March 2010

The answer to this is very simple.

Do you want to be a good cleric?

If yes, heal your entire squad, like you're supposed to.

If no, let them use their own potions, and I suggest you reroll to a mage.

Tojop - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Tryagain - Harshlands wrote: »

The answer to this is very simple.

Do you want to be a good cleric?

If yes, heal your entire squad, like you're supposed to.

If no, let them use their own potions, and I suggest you reroll to a mage.

This times 1000.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Tryagain - Harshlands wrote: »

The answer to this is very simple.

Do you want to be a good cleric?

If yes, heal your entire squad, like you're supposed to.

If no, let them use their own potions, and I suggest you reroll to a mage.

Thats one way to play a cleric, but I would like to respect the way the OP plays his/her cleric too.

Just because you are doing something out of the norm, that doesn't mean you are a bad cleric. But make sure you are actually doing something with that...

Lemuria - Harshlands · March 2010

Just because you are doing something out of the norm, that doesn't mean you are a bad cleric. But make sure you are actually doing something with that...

Well, that all depends on whether the squad is fine with that. Most squads will get more than a little annoyed at a cleric who avoids healing anyone besides the tank. Occasionally wizards or psychics will take aggro briefly, sometimes the archer will grab unwanted attention. Usually the damage is superficial and can be restored with a Wellspring if your tank is on the ball and steals aggro back quickly enough. Othertimes it can be a nightmare situation.

For me, if you're in my squad you get heals. Doesn't matter if you're a wizard, assassin or even another cleric, I'll heal anyone who is in need of it. I go through potions like I get through coffee mugs, but it gets the job done and people will often compliment a good cleric for doing what they're supposed to.

Nexdonuum - Lost City · March 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

good, now you have more time to learn the classes and GTFO

Lol you should take your own advice. And you apparently didn't understand the point of my post. The ignorance of people today is astounding.

o_O

Epidemy - Sanctuary · March 2010

Stick on giving points of view, please.
I don't want to see narrow minded judgement without decent argumentation, nor do I want to see ppl flaming at each other because they disagree. And just ignore poor pointless answers, please. There is really no interest in answering them.

Sylredrae - Sanctuary · March 2010

I prefer to take the middle ground. Tank gets priority on healing, especially if he needs it (usually when tanking a boss), but I'll watch out for the others as well. I usually keep an eye on everyone's hp and judge who needs healing most and how much, then deal with it accordingly. If DDers or the other cleric need healing and I know I won't get aggro, they will get healed to the best of my ability. If I can save the other cleric or wizzie when they take aggro, I'll try. If they do something stupid like running off and aggroing everything, I'm not chasing after them if I can help it.

Naturally, there are exceptions in the case of ping pong aggro on pole and nob. In that case, I have to look after everyone as much as possible because of their nasty debuffs and aoe. Ah, the joys of multi-tasking... b:surrender

Neodaystar - Sanctuary · March 2010

On topic, it's a fact that hp restorative items (charms, foods, pots...) are more costly than mp ones. So in instance runs, I often don't use my hp foods and do expect the cleric to heal everyone if the time is appropriate - like in between running to the next mobs. However, the exception of when I think people should use their own hp foods is when 3 or more mobs gets aggro or if you steal aggro on a boss, as so to reduce risk of death and to reduce work loads for the cleric or on bosses that have strong AoEs every few seconds like the final boss fb 99. It all boils down to using common sense to judge when to be conservative on resources and when not to, which not everyone in the game has (common sense).

Many people also fail to realize that it takes time for a cleric to channel and cast a healing spell. If multiple mobs are SUDDENLY aggro, it only takes a couple seconds for a squishy to die if no hp pots are used before the cleric has time to realize who needs healing and then cast it. This is one of the reasons why I think people label that cleric as failed, because they failed to be responsible for their own hp when required.

This is also one trait that separates the good barbs from the bad barbs. The bad/failed barbs expects the clerics to do all the healing on tough bosses, while the good/successful ones also use hp foods/apoth items if needed. Bosses do have crit attacks too, and when that happens if the tank is also debuffed, death is imminent. I've seen it happened many times when a barb dies, he gets res and steal back aggro without using his own hp pots thinking the cleric can heal his hp fully and quickly; and so he dies again. That's one barb to be blacklisted lol.

/ gellus - Heavens Tear6 · March 2010

LTraveller - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When I'm using Soul Transfusion at Dimentora or, say, amp Myriadtail Wyvern, I too tell the cleric: don't bother healing me. Not because I'm ungrateful, and not because I don't know how to play a cleric -- but because I understand that cleric might be busy enough already.

My alt is a veno, 77. I don't tell clerics not to heal me. I'm fully aware of the fact that I can heal myself via metabolic boost. If a cleric wants to heal me after a soul transfusion, so be it. If I find that they don't, then I will heal myself.
While playing cleric, if a veno uses soul transfusion, I WILL heal them. If they give me QQ, whatever. It's not whether I am too 'busy' to heal anyone else. It's my job to keep everyone alive is it not?

LTraveller - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Now, after obtaining second form of Myriad Rainbow, I'll probably stop telling clerics not to heal me after ST too

BTW. My foxform combo (which I cast on every amp cooldown) includes consume spirit and leech (for non-venos: blue star + red circle). Helps build chi and recovers some mana, but causes my HP to jump between 80 and 100%. Some clerics heal me on every cast. That's completely unnecessary.

/ gellus - Heavens Tear8 · March 2010

LTraveller - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Now, after obtaining second form of Myriad Rainbow, I'll probably stop telling clerics not to heal me after ST too

BTW. My foxform combo (which I cast on every amp cooldown) includes consume spirit and leech (for non-venos: blue star + red circle). Helps build chi and recovers some mana, but causes my HP to jump between 80 and 100%. Some clerics heal me on every cast. That's completely unnecessary.

If I decide to foxform on a boss I do the same consume spirit then leech as well. Very true that healing from a cleric isn't necessary during that. Some may not know the effects of consume spirit + leech though, and instinct is to heal.

Clerics and pots saving

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