Archane better then LA 90+??!?!?

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whatsanding
whatsanding Posts: 0 Arc User
edited March 2010 in Cleric
why is this better 90+ helps me out im 70 AA cleric thinking that LA is ganna be da shizzle to switch to but if 90+AA is better im second guessing.

please helps me outy
Post edited by whatsanding on

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  • Rillien - Heavens Tear
    Rillien - Heavens Tear Posts: 569 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    99% of clerics use arcane at 90+. It is generally thought to be better. LA, endgame, has the worst defenses.
  • tukiyem
    tukiyem Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    AFAIK,
    For PvE, LA is good for 8x levels, but for 9x levels, lots of magic mobs again, so it's better to use AA

    As for PvP, I'd prefer AA all the time, with +HP or +Physical DEF shards, also using physical def accessories, these make you still have decent magical def, and also have physical def close to LA build.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Early on, LA gives average phys def and mag def and you can refine to handle HP... which makes it seem like a great overall choice. Later on, however, average defenses really just means you take a ton of damage from both physical and magical sources, and LA has no way to make up for the poor defense it gives. Meanwhile, an arcane user is able to shard for phys defense and completely overtake LA users, who have no choice but to shard for HP due to the restriction LA puts on their stats. That leaves LA users as mediocre/high HP squishies while arcanes can become rather... difficult to take down.
  • whatsanding
    whatsanding Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    why u say that LA users have no choice butt to shard hp, AA users if not sharding hp will only get hp from VIT and having a VIT build getting 100 vit u get only 1000 more hp.

    LA will get more hp from HP helms up to mebe 250 or more hp and more hp from refines.

    but the way i see it body peice gives 486 more pdef then AA and u can shard hp. AAs sharded with pdef needs 4 def+100 shards to even make up for that

    but instead LA can shard 4 100+ hp Shards making that 400 hp with just sharded body armor and helm ur almost getting the amount of 100VIT(650HP) and you still have more armor to do what u wish. i dont like cleric with VIT because of how litle it gives the cleric hp, id prefer dex even.

    what if i shared sum Pdef on LA with more HP shards i think i'd be a force to recon with.

    u say 90+ is horrible pdef and magic def, but LA will always be better in pdef i think

    but in a PLAYER VS PLAYER scenario should i worry about magic dmg?
     you can equip archane hp sharded n e way

    i think ive just convinced myself that ill go LA even at 90+ since there are no 90+LA clerics i'll feell unique yeaay!

    but ofcourse this is not from experience. this is just my theory going into play please helps me out.
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    So . . the point of these thread ? o.o

    Some information at lv 100:
    Ha armor need : about 306 of your status to wear. (252 str & 54 dex) (phy def 1392 ; mag def 595)
    La armor need : about 208 of your status to wear. (104 str & 104 dex) (phy def 597 ; mag def 930)
    Arcane armor need : about 207 of your status to wear. (54 str & 153 mag) (phy def 155 ; mag def 1390)



    At lv 100 you has 495 point. (the magic sword has 628 - 767 on m.atk)

    A la cleric will has 302 mag (7000mp) with lv 94 normal magic sword : m.atk 2927 - 3485 (ironheart do 1592)(plumeshot do 5003)

    A arcane cleric will has 451 mag (9086mp) with lv 94 normal magic sword : m.atk 4011 - 4777 (ironheart do 1917)(plumeshot do 6087)

    With stronger iron heart, with protection belt & necklace, HP & Def shards. A arcane cleric seem tougher. b:surrender
    And if the arcane want to save point on vit he will get 1490 hp more. (149 so the mag become 302 too)

    The problem of la is it can't be the best on phy and mag side. So you kinda has average def on both of them. b:surrender
    But who know . . depend on play style, your genie, preparations, etc . . :D
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  • Rumble - Harshlands
    Rumble - Harshlands Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Alright so here's my build/char with equips when I reach 90. (So close!!!)

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ac0021ba3a8ebe04

    You'll note that I had to cheat 3 magic points and put it into strength for my helm (which I have done). I'll make up for it over the next few levels. I felt the extra HP was worth it. I also have 5 extra points in my base vitality. This was a mistake I made early on playing and I guess could restat, but never felt 5 points was worth the money. If I hadn't dumped them there they would have gone into magic or str to make up for the helm. I also used to have much higher dex from gear, but recently found some great HP gear. I may have missed one dex add on my equip, but barely worth mentioning.

    All armor I have thanks to 2x drop weeks and TT runs or buying in AH when prices dropped. All have 3 slots which I sharded with Citrine G7s. I also have refined them all to +4 for now thanks to the D.Orb sales. I would like to go +5, but for purposes of the calculation I thought +4 was attainable by most and thus fair to show. When +5 of course it will boost my HP even more.

    So here it is at 90. Haven't looked at 100 because I don't have the gear yet as I do my tt90 nor know what is available to your "average" player. If someone wants to do an AA build and post we could discuss. I didn't alter the gear to show an AA build because I don't know enough about that build to judge what shards to use or which gear to pick. When you do an AA build though please show a reasonable one. I.e. tt90 green gear as I did, refined same level, Sharded to same grades and number of sockets, etc. You can either use accessories you have or feel free to use mine if you think it helps the stats to show a fair comparison.

    Enjoy
  • Magiere - Dreamweaver
    Magiere - Dreamweaver Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=924f771ccd745b0d

    More physical defense, more magical defense,20% stronger heals/magic attacks.
    Almost same HP, but due to higher magic attack u can now tank fb 79 bosses and other magic bosses way easier/solo them.

    All of the above for pretty much the same value and price.


    PS : yes, I'm an arcane fan \o/
    Originally written by Satchiko to me regarding old spice commercial :
    Hello Perfect World. Look at your cleric, now back to me, now back to your cleric, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me. But if you stopped being a noob and started wearing sunglasses you could act like you're me. Look down, back up, where are you? You're on Dreamweaver with the cleric your cleric could be like. What's in your hand, back at me. It's an inventory filled with the gear you want. Look again, the gear is now diamonds. Anything is possible with sunglasses. I'm flying on starter wings.
  • Rumble - Harshlands
    Rumble - Harshlands Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Interesting to see for sure. I'm glad an arcane user did it as opposed to me because I might not have chosen the same gear and shards because I'm not used to playing arcane.

    One point though is that if I also use a Vibrant Jade: Order belt then the physical defense increases to 360 points higher. I only kept the elemental belt on because it had a good hp bonus. Even loosing that I still have about 400 hp more and when I increase my refines on my gear it will increase much more then yours. I.e. your +4 top only gives you 107 and at +5 gives 143. My LA top at +4 gives 129 more hp and at +5 171.

    This may not seem huge, but where defense (magic or physical) depends on the type of attack more hp is always good because it offsets any attack.

    Let's also not forget LA has a higher evade and crit rate for spike damage, although at 90 my crit rate is only 4% higher so not too much. As a LA though I'll be going Demon so with Demon Metal Mastery I'll get an additional 2% critical and with the Vibrant Jade belt and strength increase I can get my dex back up in a couple of levels so hopefully 10% crit soon. That is a decent spike chance.

    I can certainly see a compelling argument against LA now at 90. It's just that at a certain point it gets cash shop expensive to restat that many points. I wonder if a LA lvl 100 could show their gear or reasonable gear for the level.
  • Magicgabe - Lost City
    Magicgabe - Lost City Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=82987f43afab7387

    Should be more HP, more phy def, higher crit, less mag def, less mag atttack

    300HP is actually a lot. It can mean charm tick vs. oneshot sometimes.

    crit is not to underestimated. Crit wield thunder wreaks havoc on BMs.

    LA can wear arcane too...keep that in mind.
    and bro...fyi this isn't a story.

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  • Magiere - Dreamweaver
    Magiere - Dreamweaver Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    With that low magical defense you are going to be a 1shot for almost every 90+ wizard there is in this game.

    Believe me when i tell you when it comes down to highlvl pk, the wizard aka low magical defense is more scary than anything else.
    Originally written by Satchiko to me regarding old spice commercial :
    Hello Perfect World. Look at your cleric, now back to me, now back to your cleric, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me. But if you stopped being a noob and started wearing sunglasses you could act like you're me. Look down, back up, where are you? You're on Dreamweaver with the cleric your cleric could be like. What's in your hand, back at me. It's an inventory filled with the gear you want. Look again, the gear is now diamonds. Anything is possible with sunglasses. I'm flying on starter wings.
  • tukiyem
    tukiyem Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Magiere - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    With that low magical defense you are going to be a 1shot for almost every 90+ wizard there is in this game.

    Believe me when i tell you when it comes down to highlvl pk, the wizard aka low magical defense is more scary than anything else.

    couldn't agree more, i have a friend that was level 100 LA cleric, but he then restat to Arcane since he got 5 times 1 hit killed by wizard level 98 in TW.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    whatsanding wrote: »
    why u say that LA users have no choice butt to shard hp, AA users if not sharding hp will only get hp from VIT and having a VIT build getting 100 vit u get only 1000 more hp.

    LA will get more hp from HP helms up to mebe 250 or more hp and more hp from refines.
    wait wut? arcane cant even refine? lol >.>
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  • Rumble - Harshlands
    Rumble - Harshlands Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    I don't think anyone's saying arcanes can't refine. It's that different types of armor get more HP bonuses from refining with arcane being the lowest. A +5 piece of LA will get more hp bonus then a +5 AA piece of the same level/grade. As an example tt90 LA at +5 has more hp then +5 tt90 AA. 143 hp with the AA vs. 171 hp with the LA for just the top alone.

    Also everyone talks about LA clerics being one shot, by magic classes, but perhaps the one who did wasn't fully taking advantage of the versatility of being a LA player who is magic based. It allows us to wear a piece or two of AA armor to get a bit more of a boost in magic defense then an archer would have. Is the same AA cleric or Wizard who is doing this one shot not susceptible to a one shot from an archer or sin? With my physical defense and hp I'm not. So I just traded off who can one shot me, and if I wear some arcane too it reduces the chance of being one shot by a mage class.

    I'm not arguing too hard that AA clerics aren't good, but I think that LA, if played correctly, can be equally effective.
  • Rillien - Heavens Tear
    Rillien - Heavens Tear Posts: 569 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    If you really want to stick with LA at level 90, refine your rings. A lot. You need to make up the mag def that you are losing compared to arcane. I like LA because of this aspect; ring refines actually serve a purpose. It's pretty pointless to see arcane users with +3 rings....really not cost effective.

    But you do need to find the best way to round out your defense, because it is lacking by endgame. You should also wear arcane bracers, as they have the -chan bonuses and -int on LA does absolutely nothing for you.

    AND STACK CRIT. Really the only way you will kill things with this build is highly refining your weapon and piling on as much crit as possible. +2 or +3 crit rings, get +crit on your weapon, try to make your Dex at 100 [through bonuses only! do NOT add more dex than necessary!] so you get that last extra %. Then you can have 10-15% crit, which will allow you to string them often enough to make it work.

    Before I restat I had 11%, and I was able to get 4 crits in a row a few times, but strings of 2 and 3s happened pretty often. Though if you don't refine your weapon your matk will make you b:cry.

    LA is fun. It's cheap in mid levels. It's about as workable as arcane, though I would say a bit more difficult. Vit remains the easiest way to add hp, and arcane remains the best way to get good endgame defense, so your major advantage as LA is your crit%. Still a nice build to try if you're bored or want a different experience. Takes lots more money to make it as good as arcane endgame though.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    whatsanding wrote: »
    why u say that LA users have no choice butt to shard hp, AA users if not sharding hp will only get hp from VIT and having a VIT build getting 100 vit u get only 1000 more hp.

    LA will get more hp from HP helms up to mebe 250 or more hp and more hp from refines.

    but the way i see it body peice gives 486 more pdef then AA and u can shard hp. AAs sharded with pdef needs 4 def+100 shards to even make up for that

    but instead LA can shard 4 100+ hp Shards making that 400 hp with just sharded body armor and helm ur almost getting the amount of 100VIT(650HP) and you still have more armor to do what u wish. i dont like cleric with VIT because of how litle it gives the cleric hp, id prefer dex even.

    what if i shared sum Pdef on LA with more HP shards i think i'd be a force to recon with.

    u say 90+ is horrible pdef and magic def, but LA will always be better in pdef i think

    but in a PLAYER VS PLAYER scenario should i worry about magic dmg?
     you can equip archane hp sharded n e way

    i think ive just convinced myself that ill go LA even at 90+ since there are no 90+LA clerics i'll feell unique yeaay!

    but ofcourse this is not from experience. this is just my theory going into play please helps me out.

    if you have the money for 100+ hp shards might as well just refine your orns to +10 and socket vit stones. ijs

    LA's defense is mediocre and can have decent hp, but you can have decent hp (maybe a little less) with arcane yet not have suck defense. with a lot of money you can have decent defensive stats with any armor (yes...even LA if you can refine your orns to something high), yet arcane will always have the highest magic attack.
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  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Rumble - Harshlands wrote: »
    Alright so here's my build/char with equips when I reach 90. (So close!!!)

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ac0021ba3a8ebe04
    Enjoy
    AA equivalent - http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f095bcc09cecd0d9

    Magicgabe - Lost City wrote: »
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=82987f43afab7387

    Should be more HP, more phy def, higher crit, less mag def, less mag atttack

    300HP is actually a lot. It can mean charm tick vs. oneshot sometimes.

    crit is not to underestimated. Crit wield thunder wreaks havoc on BMs.

    LA can wear arcane too...keep that in mind.
    AA equivalent - http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ee609dd490d096d2

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