QQ about taking Wine Money and starting without say person

Whenever someone seems to go afk or not be there, especially if I'm the leader of the squad, I make sure to PM them twice and talk to them in squad chat twice. If they reply, we wait. If not, they get kicked, or we just do the bosses without them.

I can do that though, being the cleric. b:surrender

Lesson learned. Don't pay for wines until you're actually *in* the cave.

Did you mention you were flying? Cause i my patience-pool isn't that big at times *cough 'understatement'* And I have been going geesh why is so and so not here yet as well, while if they mention they're flying and it may take a while, i know what they're doing and why they will be a bit later.

I have been getting less patient in waiting for people because sometimes you get a squad together an player A needs to be afk for a bit, player B gets phone, player C isn't there or answering questions why he isn't there yet, and by the time everyone is there player D feels the need to go afk.

Though if people mention they are flying over or I ask them why they are taking a while and they answer i will wait, and tell everyone to pee, get food etc before the flying player gets there so we can start as soon as he enters. (makes me feel like a kinder garden momma at times lol)

It sucks for you others do not have that patience or are just jerks and decide they have your money so they can **** you. Nothing much you can do about that, but telling them you will pay while entering the instance so at least when they start without you your money wont be lost.

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Paying at platform? Wow, first time I see this happen. Yeah, only pay in instances IMO >_>.

But I agree, the guys should have at least PMed or something, or you should have made it clear you were flying. I hate when I have people who say like "Coming!"... and they're flying from Archo to FB79, while 5/6 members will be inside already. If it's BH, yes, you will irritate me to no effing end. I can understand some people don't have much money (myself included), but I still map around a bit. DWP 8k tele instead of going right in FB79, for example. Happens a lot to me in FB59, and I get annoyed on that.

Though if several people wind up flying, well I'll take it as an opportunity to go AFK and do other business.

I'm patient, but I will not wait 20 minutes to kill a boss in BH. If it's wined, well I have little to no choice in waiting IMO, but I'll be pretty pissed off... Unwined, I'm sorry, but if you go AFK and don't warn anyone, after 10 minutes I just go without.

I agree. Using teleport in BH 79 is a MUST.

Isn't it funny how people justify stealing? Dang! I guess I should just take my merchandise and leave the store when the lines are too long at Walmart. I mean after all they made me wait. Boohoo for them.

You paid to receive a benefit, they accepted your money to receive a benefit. Period. If the bosses were killed without you, your wine fee should have been refunded. Period.

You didn't pay 50k so they could do it without you. You paid 50k to do the run, regardless of how long it took. Everyone seems to have unsaid rules about everything on here. Can't heal in duels or whatever. So do we add can't fly to a bh to this list?

Would others justify someone taking wine from 5 others only to kick them from the squad and do the run without them? Not saying the could do it alone, but could easily invite 5 other faction members and get the run for "free".

If the expectation is that you teleport in to an instance or get there quickly, that should be stated up front.

Here is everything wrong with this situation:

- You're paying on the platform. Never, never ever, pay on the platform. Honestly, that was your own stupid mistake.

- If you aren't going to spend a measly 10k or however much it is to Wraithgate, then you can tell people you're flying and save up for a faster flying mount. Wraithgate to Archo is not the fastest flight and I for one would be pissed that you make me wait that long and don't even say that you're flying.

- You should have been PM'd before the boss was begun so people could know where you were. Now, by this point, if you had only been half way to Wraithgate... yeah, I'd have done it too. If you had been right outside then I would have waited.

- It took you that long to get to Wraithgate that they could do Pole and Pyro? You're lying about something, be it the speed of your mount or just straight up flying there and not going AFK. If the squad was around your level, no way should they have been able to kill that fast. Polearm I can expect to be done, but Pyro, seriously? You should have easily been at Pyro before they killed it.

- They should have waited for you for one of the bosses at least, most definitely. Although, see above. You must have been going pretty slowly or that was an epically fast squad.

- You should have been given your 50k back, period. The fact you weren't means you were scammed.

This will, however, teach you that it pays to teleport and pays to pay your share in the instance.

I think OP should explain some points in his story.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

If both Pyro and Pole were done by the time he got there, he's full of it. He must have afk'd quite a bit. I haven't seen a squad yet that won't ask "Where are you" or wait a few extra minutes for a response or for someone to get there.

I'm pretty sure he took his own sweet time without consideration of the others, and in the end he paid for it. I, for one, would not refund if he disappeared, didn't respond and didn't show up until BH was already done.

Dont' many people port out after Polearm to get Pyro? If so, he must have really sat afk for a good 10-15m.

Would you also have this view if the person stated their internet connection dropped for 10 or 15 minutes? And if they indeed told you so, would you even believe them? I mean as easy as he could be scammed, he could scam back with a lie.

No matter the reason for not going he should have been refunded.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Now you're just making up excuses.

If you buy a concert ticket or ticket for a movie, your car breaks down, or you run out of gas, or you just sat there in the shower an extra half hour... and you miss it. By your logic, you should get a refund.

Very true. I don't know if is exactly this situation but you are very true. Maybe OP didn't tell us everything.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Very true. I don't know if is exactly this situation but you are very true. Maybe OP didn't tell us everything.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they didn't.

FruityMelons - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If the expectation is that you teleport in to an instance or get there quickly, that should be stated up front.

And another flaw in your logic... Never assume you should be prompt to a date, a job interview, a meeting or even a BH. Just take your sweet time because the world just revolves around you and should naturally know to wait?

And for giving a refund? You do realize that BH are usually split cost between all the party members, right? You have played enough to know that... so then, who is responsible for 'refunding' him? Nobody should be expected to pay their full fee in refund because that's just not fair either. The OP can go to each member of the party and say "hey can I have my 5k back?" but he probably wasted enough of their time for them to say "**** it, it's been 10 minutes he's not coming, lets just get it done". You can't fault anyone but the OP for that either. He took up a space in the party, he HAS to pay that space whether he is tardy or not.

FruityMelons - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Isn't it funny how people justify stealing? Dang! I guess I should just take my merchandise and leave the store when the lines are too long at Walmart. I mean after all they made me wait. Boohoo for them.

You paid to receive a benefit, they accepted your money to receive a benefit. Period. If the bosses were killed without you, your wine fee should have been refunded. Period.

You didn't pay 50k so they could do it without you. You paid 50k to do the run, regardless of how long it took. Everyone seems to have unsaid rules about everything on here. Can't heal in duels or whatever. So do we add can't fly to a bh to this list?

The whole point of wining a BH is so you can do it more quickly. It defeats the purpose of wining it if you then sit around for 15 minutes waiting for someone too cheap to pay 10k for a teleport to fly there.

FruityMelons - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Being scammed never teaches you anything except how to become cynical. You are right there are many things wrong here but regardless of anything else....his money was taken without a return of promised goods. He paid for a bh and he got nothing. If the squad did it without him before he got there it's clear they did not "need" him and only "wanted" his money. Greed wins apparently.

Let's do a little math here. By the time you're in your 80s and doing BH69, you should be able to grind 200k/hr easily (I'd consider 250-300k/hr more realistic, but let's be conservative and go with the lowest figure). In 15 min, that's 50k. If he's spending 15 min flying there to save himself 10k in teleport fees, he's costing the rest of the group 5*50k = 250k in potential income. You're essentially saying it's wrong for them deprive him of 50k, but it's ok for him to deprive them of 250k. How does that make sense? I'd say it's the individual who insists on flying who is the greedy one. Greedy to save himself 10k even if it costs everyone else 250k.

I agree this could've been handled a lot better, and they should've refunded his wine fee. But people who try to save themselves a few k by not teleporting, forcing 5 others to wait 10-15 minutes are a big pet peeve of mine. Unless you were going to be afk anyway, you do not save money by flying/running. If he had spent the 10k to port, he could've done the BH on time, and the 15 min he'd wasted flying could've been spent grinding making 50k. You have to spend money to make money. If you've got 5 people waiting for you, flying/running becomes 6x worse.

If you want to waste your time and money by not teleporting when you're playing alone, fine, that's none of my business. But once you join a group, you have to stop thinking about what's best for yourself, and start thinking about what's best for the group. There is absolutely no excuse not to teleport to a distant BH like 69. If you're that much of a charity case, I'm sure the rest of the group would be happy to donate 2k per person to cover your teleport fee to save themselves 15 min of waiting. Though I doubt any of them would ever invite you to a group again.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

And for giving a refund? You do realize that BH are usually split cost between all the party members, right? You have played enough to know that... so then, who is responsible for 'refunding' him? Nobody should be expected to pay their full fee in refund because that's just not fair either. The OP can go to each member of the party and say "hey can I have my 5k back?" but he probably wasted enough of their time for them to say "**** it, it's been 10 minutes he's not coming, lets just get it done". You can't fault anyone but the OP for that either. He took up a space in the party, he HAS to pay that space whether he is tardy or not.

The proper way to handle the refund in this case is for each party member to send him a PM so he can jot down their names. Then he can chase each of them down individually as they go about their business, so he can collect 10k from each of them. He has already established that 10k is more valuable to him than 15 min of his time. So spending 15 min of his time to chase down each group member to collect 10k should be more than worth it for him.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you want to waste your time and money by not teleporting when you're playing alone, fine, that's none of my business. But once you join a group, you have to stop thinking about what's best for yourself, and start thinking about what's best for the group. There is absolutely no excuse not to teleport to a distant BH like 69. If you're that much of a charity case, I'm sure the rest of the group would be happy to donate 2k per person to cover your teleport fee to save themselves 15 min of waiting. Though I doubt any of them would ever invite you to a group again.

This is exactly how I'm thinking. Not the best for me, but the best for group. When I'm alone is my business what I'm doing. But If I'm in squad I have to do my best for squad not for myself. We each depend on each other so is very rude to think just about yourself.

Um... a bit related.


A few days ago I was in bh69 for nub-->pyro. We decided we'll do Pole for drops. One guy mentioned he stil needed it for old bh. After pyro I specifically told him not to port out since we are going to kill Pole which he needed & that he will not get another pole. ._. what does he do? He ports out... Squad goes to pole... I guess they didn't notice he wasn't here. Veno was kinda not engrish I presume... She continues to pull pole without waiting, the others start killing pole... I tell the guy to hurry up. He does. When boss hp starts going I repeatedly ask others to stop killing the boss & wait for the last member ._. I guess they either just ignored me or weren't paying attention...

The guy gets there just as pole dies but not close enough to get the kill. Gets pissed & leaves.

The End ._.

Facepalm to the squad, but also to the guy as well.

get your faction and friends and pester them off the server please

or

Consider that there aren't that many people on a server, WC their names
If your blacklisted they won't know anyway, but everyone else will

Very efficient payback

YOUR WHOLE STORIES FULL OF HOLES BUB! NOW SPILL IT!

Sorry i got carried away after reading all the debates and cross examinations. I thought we were interagating the guy. I was goignm to be the tough cop.

Most are in agreement that he must have taken far too long to arrive at the BH. There's just no logical excuse for getting there that long after the others. They completely finished and you saw only coin packs on the ground..... Come on.

The harder question is, did OP deserve his money back since he didn't get the product/service he paid for? This is not black and white and impossible to say for sure since we weren't theer and going by hearsay and assumptions. I can't say either side is definitely wrong.

If i was a judge and had to rule i would say OP does not deserve his money back. He took the spot of someone who could have helped DD and contributed for wines so no obligation to refund 50k.

Sorry sir, learn a PWI lesson and move on. Judgement for the defendant *pounds gavel*