What to do with fail clerics?
Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver
Posts: 432 Arc User
(Warning in advance: I'm not going to give your post a thought if you spam or flame, so I'm telling you now, STFU and post something constructive.)
I needed BH 51. Got together a nice squad. We were okay except for a cleric, naturally, so I stuck around in Arch for awhile until I finally found one who needed the same bh. He was in his 60's, like us. We think everything'll be fine, right?
Basically, when we got inside, it was me and another psy taking charge. Had a veno, a barb, and I think a magician, so I expected us to be okay. Well, cleric runs forward and aggros the first two mobs blocking your way at the beginning of the BH. It's a struggle, but these mobs aren't too hard and we killed them, also warning the cleric not to aggro them. A few minutes later, the other psy whispers me asking if I noticed he didn't have a weapon. I looked. No weapon - no glave, sword, or wand.
We told him he wouldn't be able to heal us properly without a weapon, but he didn't take it out until I accidentally slipped up and said something about it in squad chat instead of whisper. Oops. But he still continues to run ahead and use lightning on the mobs, naturally drawing two or three of them at a time. Not good, of course. Fortunately after this, things went smoothly for awhile.
Skip to Wyvern and things got bad. Apparently, the cleric was the type that didn't know how to spam ironheart on the tank, so our barb died within a few minutes. Dragon goes straight for us casters. We ran, but it was too late - thirty-second squad wipe, indeed.
Worst thing is when the cleric doesn't know how to play their class. So, enlighten me. How would you deal with something like this? I was certainly going to kick him if he didn't get his **** a weapon, in any case.
I needed BH 51. Got together a nice squad. We were okay except for a cleric, naturally, so I stuck around in Arch for awhile until I finally found one who needed the same bh. He was in his 60's, like us. We think everything'll be fine, right?
Basically, when we got inside, it was me and another psy taking charge. Had a veno, a barb, and I think a magician, so I expected us to be okay. Well, cleric runs forward and aggros the first two mobs blocking your way at the beginning of the BH. It's a struggle, but these mobs aren't too hard and we killed them, also warning the cleric not to aggro them. A few minutes later, the other psy whispers me asking if I noticed he didn't have a weapon. I looked. No weapon - no glave, sword, or wand.
We told him he wouldn't be able to heal us properly without a weapon, but he didn't take it out until I accidentally slipped up and said something about it in squad chat instead of whisper. Oops. But he still continues to run ahead and use lightning on the mobs, naturally drawing two or three of them at a time. Not good, of course. Fortunately after this, things went smoothly for awhile.
Skip to Wyvern and things got bad. Apparently, the cleric was the type that didn't know how to spam ironheart on the tank, so our barb died within a few minutes. Dragon goes straight for us casters. We ran, but it was too late - thirty-second squad wipe, indeed.
Worst thing is when the cleric doesn't know how to play their class. So, enlighten me. How would you deal with something like this? I was certainly going to kick him if he didn't get his **** a weapon, in any case.
Post edited by Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver on
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Comments
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Deal with it. There is lot of characters which they don't know how to play. Nobody has on forehead written "I'm moron I don't know how to play my class."b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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I woulda booted him the moment he started randomly agroing the mobs WITHOUT a weapon. b:shockedFor honor...
For glory...
FOR E-PEEN!0 -
- You boot them if they look like potential fails to begin with and you don't want to risk it.
- If you don't boot them but hate the run anyway, you leave squad.
- If you do neither of the above, deal with it and whatever happens. It was your choice to boot them when they looked like they were going to make things difficult, and it was your choice not to leave either. So if you die, you die, and you died because you decided to take the risk of squadding with somebody who could have potentially failed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Put them in the recycle bin. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Remember to feed your Clerics three meals a day!
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Fail moment: I was in a TT3-1. We were all punching the start pillars for chi. I forgot to re-equip my weapon. We made it through the first boss before someone reminded me I had it off b:surrender. So that could have been a mistake. Especially since he put it on once you said something.
The rest was a bit iffy though. Just make sure never to squad with him again. Take it as a learning experience and a chance for you all to practise developing quick reflexes. It is a shame that the barb almost always dies with there is a fail cleric. Other squad members can sometimes get away.0 -
I've forgotten to equip a weapon. I've seen other people do it too. It's stuff that happens.
But if he doesn't equip after a while, and rushes stuff, and heals with a sub-par skill continuously... I'd have brought the whole squad's attention. Would have probably ended up booting the cleric too.
Notice that I rush head on on my cleric, just magic mobs. I'm not nuts enough to start tanking meleers in 51/59...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Due to constant PMs: I'm not German, sorry folks
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Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »Fail moment: I was in a TT3-1. We were all punching the start pillars for chi. I forgot to re-equip my weapon. We made it through the first boss before someone reminded me I had it off b:surrender. So that could have been a mistake. Especially since he put it on once you said something.
The rest was a bit iffy though. Just make sure never to squad with him again. Take it as a learning experience and a chance for you all to practise developing quick reflexes. It is a shame that the barb almost always dies with there is a fail cleric. Other squad members can sometimes get away.
most good barbs and or bm's will try to protect the squad from a full wipe in the case of a downed or failled cleric, by either having them run or by running to reset the boss.
I agree with most people if the cleric is that bad boot em leave or risk it is your choices
you can *try* to explain / tell them what to do (I have done this when on a alt seeing as i know what they should be doing) but you will come across and bossy and demanding more then likely and if they dont really want to learn they will just be like what do you know anyways b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
i'd say best thing to do is make the best of the situation. you either kick him from the start or stick it out with him unless it's absolutely necessary to get someone else cuz it's not fair for him if he followed you guys this whole time and you just kick him at boss. since you know he doesn't know what to do from how he's acted, you guys tell him what to do.
before the tank goes in "please stack tank with ironhearts"
and while tank is tanking "keep stacking tank"
it's not that hard lol. hopefully he learns and becomes a better cleric. a cleric who learns how to play makes the whole server a better place. if he messes up and you wipe, well at least you can say you tried. it's better than definitely wiping because no one said anything.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »i'd say best thing to do is make the best of the situation. you either kick him from the start or stick it out with him unless it's absolutely necessary to get someone else cuz it's not fair for him if he followed you guys this whole time and you just kick him at boss. since you know he doesn't know what to do from how he's acted, you guys tell him what to do.
before the tank goes in "please stack tank with ironhearts"
and while tank is tanking "keep stacking tank"
it's not that hard lol. hopefully he learns and becomes a better cleric. a cleric who learns how to play makes the whole server a better place. if he messes up and you wipe, well at least you can say you tried. it's better than definitely wiping because no one said anything.
There's a difference between a player who listens... and one who doesn't.
My general reaction to someone who doesn't seem to listen is: "What's your first language?" I teamed up with enough international squads to think that if they don't seem to listen, it's not because they're not listening. Some just can't understand English well. An instance I did on another game usually implied teaming up with European people, a lot of them being French for some odd reason. I speak French as a primary language, and if I'd explain them what to do, they'd understand just fine.
Now if they say English... I'm starting to doubt. Maybe they're brand new though. In this case, a couple tips. "IH's your main heal because it stacks." Some get it.
Now if you have to remind them 10 times to use it, either they have an insanely short short-term memory (never seen TBH, but still an option), they're just plain dumb (happens) or just not listening at all (most of the time).
I'd kick the last two cases...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Due to constant PMs: I'm not German, sorry folks0 -
I remember being in a similar situation on a BH 51 run. Cleric did warn us he didn't have a wep from the start and kept trying to borrow one from the other casters in the group (we all had TT 60s we were obviously not going to lend a stranger) so the barb got im a cheap one from the AH. Apparently the guy had given up on cleric at some point and sold most of his stuff, he did alright and we got the run done with no casualties.
Now, i do think it should have been his duty to get one on his own before squading, but the thing is we had accepted to bring him along despite knowing this was someone who hadn't used his char for a while. It's been countless time that for one reason or the other i've had to coach a Barb or Cleric on how to do his job (oraclers, people who had borrowed an older sibbling's account, etc.), usually it's not hard for someone with a healthy intelect to get a grasp on the basics of what they should do and the rest of the squad adjusts their playing style accordingly (you don't ask an unexperienced cleric to BB, take it easy on aggro with an unprepared tank, etc).
Sometimes however we have been forced to kick the person out of squad, if their character lacked the essential skills or the player had a bad attitude. Nothing personal. To me the rule of thumb is to talk things over with both the unexperienced player and the squad. It's not hard to spam IH and to instruct someone to use pots after all...
If things work out it means you get to do the run with everyone understanding the full risks, if not you get started on looking for someone who can do the job.
People that can't perform on what their class should acomplish have a strike against them but it can be dealt with as long as they're humble enough to follow instructions and don't go out of their way to endanger the rest of us. I've taken plenty of BMs on runs they should have been able to tank but confessed they couldn't. What i really can't stand however is people who deceive you. FACs that take the spot we reserved for a healer, DD Barb builds that pretend they're the same as other Barbs, that sort of thing. I'm not against taking unusual builds but it should be their duty to inform the squad they can't be depended on for certain jobs. If a TB needs a quest on an instance and pms me his/her level i'll put it up to vote by the squad (i myself always vote for them and try to speak on their behalf as i know they need the quests) but if someone wants to try to lie their way into a group they deserve to be booted without further consideration. It's a principle thing.0 -
I think what i hate the most are not the failed clerics (who can know how to play) but the good but LAZY clerics who just wouldnt move their hand to click on healing another player than the tanker.
Unfortunately, the DD tank more than the barb, but has 5times less life, why oOo why do the cleric don't heal us properly? >< Or just analizing the situation may be too hard for them, of course a DD would take aggro even if he didn't want to (with critik shots or bad tanker), the cleric has a looong time to see the mob coming to attack the DD, but no, cleric still heal the tanker >.> omg
Or when I see a cleric taking aggro because of his heals/bb and all, i try to take it back, the cleric heals himself but not me.. why oOo why? If you heal me then I won't die so will you, if you heal yourself I'll die and then you'll die inevitably. I saved your ****, just save mine don't be so egoistic or lazy >.<
Sry for the QQing, but i think it's been 1 week I haven't seen a proper cleric
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
You teach the cleric a lesson, whether in a nice constructive way or in a mocking-like insulting fashion. Depending on how they learn, one of these tactics might pull their head out from their rear bodily **** so they don't **** up the next BH. There are also occasions where some people are new at certain BH's, especially in the lower BH's (29, 39, 51), and either forget to do simple things being nervous or just don't know what they're doing. There's many factors into it which is why I try being nice about it first, then depending on how they react to constructive criticism, then it gets nasty-like. The worst thing to do is say or do nothing.Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »(Warning in advance: I'm not going to give your post a thought if you spam or flame, so I'm telling you now, STFU and post something constructive.)
I needed BH 51. Got together a nice squad. We were okay except for a cleric, naturally, so I stuck around in Arch for awhile until I finally found one who needed the same bh. He was in his 60's, like us. We think everything'll be fine, right?
Basically, when we got inside, it was me and another psy taking charge. Had a veno, a barb, and I think a magician, so I expected us to be okay. Well, cleric runs forward and aggros the first two mobs blocking your way at the beginning of the BH. It's a struggle, but these mobs aren't too hard and we killed them, also warning the cleric not to aggro them. A few minutes later, the other psy whispers me asking if I noticed he didn't have a weapon. I looked. No weapon - no glave, sword, or wand.
We told him he wouldn't be able to heal us properly without a weapon, but he didn't take it out until I accidentally slipped up and said something about it in squad chat instead of whisper. Oops. But he still continues to run ahead and use lightning on the mobs, naturally drawing two or three of them at a time. Not good, of course. Fortunately after this, things went smoothly for awhile.
Skip to Wyvern and things got bad. Apparently, the cleric was the type that didn't know how to spam ironheart on the tank, so our barb died within a few minutes. Dragon goes straight for us casters. We ran, but it was too late - thirty-second squad wipe, indeed.
Worst thing is when the cleric doesn't know how to play their class. So, enlighten me. How would you deal with something like this? I was certainly going to kick him if he didn't get his **** a weapon, in any case.0 -
I've heard about similar situations from friends. Even got called on my cleric into a BH I didn't need cause the cleric's gear was actually broken and he couldn't equip it. My friend who was tanking it tried to repair his stuff so he could heal and it just ended up they needed a new cleric.
Had many arguments with clerics before on what they do as far as healing/DD'ing/how much damage they can take. I've been partied with clerics before that say "don't pull too much." Then die because they kept telling us "pull more" when they'd reached their limit. We don't know all the time what people's limits are.
Communication is a wonderful thing and I know someone mentioned earlier that perhaps there was a language barrier. I've known many clerics in parties not understand what to do because of that language barrier.
All in all, if I feel someone is fail though, I'll either boot them, or leave and find a different squad. Though only after giving them a piece of my mind._Jaysun_'s Wife
Heaven's Tear--
Retired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For all those that told me Lunar Gold wasn't worth the hassle of farming... but now have the Nirvana versions... I laugh at you. Hypocrites.0 -
Compost. 'Nuff said.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
9x Demon Cleric0 -
& the wiz couldn't heal um why...? With barb using food, skills + wizy heal should be enough. But meh.Apparently, the cleric was the type that didn't know how to spam ironheart on the tank,
All you can do is try to explain to them what to do, step by step. Make sure they understand... & pray they at least speak english... I met some that were really horid... + couldn't even understand what the squad was telling them.... That was scary...
Very often especially at that lvl they don't even bother to be careful. Just as clerics aren't that good yet... unless they have a higher lvl char or get lucky with a good faction to teach em. Rofl I remember when I was just starting tts with my old faction on my 1st char which is a cleric, I was pissed half the time cause they kept screaming for me to heal & do this do that while I wanted to DD xD & I did <_< While they kinda died... & so did I <_< I was a moron... But nobody really taught me before what to do, nor did I play much in squads.of course a DD would take aggro even if he didn't want to (with critik shots or bad tanker),
Not paying attention? Letting the DD die on purpose? Just being slow? Who knowsthe cleric has a looong time to see the mob coming to attack the DD, but no, cleric still heal the tanker >.> omg[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
As a fail cleric myself, being called fail multiple times for healing the tank over random BMs who go off trying to look cool, I would of assisted him or give him tips on what works best.
The invention of oracles has completely messed this game up with people using them to level fast but learn squat about how their class works. I used oracles later on in the game, level 88 - 90 just because i had smexy gear waiting for me.
So now we all have to put up with people who don't know how to play their class and the people who have had experience with these fail clerics, they have gained an attitude with all clerics in general and persist to be rude and abusive. For that reason, I have seen many clerics, non oracle noobs, quit or make alts to avoid being called fail or abused. One of those being myself. Personally I let people die/incured squad wipes if the squad tried to control me to teach them a lesson.
To the OP: Making threads such as this dont help anyone to be honest. Try to just be nice and help the person out to aid them in being a cleric. You should be treating every cleric or barb as a gift now since the numbers are going down due to the stupid TB.0 -
doesnt matter if cleric wiz archer barb w.e. class
if they fail correct thing is try to teach them what the right thing to do if they do not take advice from others or start with the ego of "im the barb so shut up i know what im doing" or "whos the cleric here? me ok then dont try to teach me" just leave or boot lol.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Believe me, we tried to teach him what to do. We weren't sure if English was his first language because he spoke in short sentences and we didn't know if he'd gotten the message or not. Took awhile for us to get him to stop aggroing all those mobs though. He didn't listen to us about IH either.0
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I feel your pain.....
Once my squad was trying to tank final mini bosses from AE boss on a TT 2-3 and the cleric agroed AE boss all the time with heal even if we tell him dont heal when AE is nearby to us .___. Finally TT was over with no AE.
On that situation better option is kick out that cleric from squad and try to find a new one.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Arshies - Sanctuary0 -
If a cleric runs around like a fool - let him die. The go back to Arch and find another. Eventually(after several deaths) he may realize that he has to fulfill a specific role.
I say this as a cleric, so realize that most of them you will squad do know how to play.
Hopefully this was a rare incident though.0 -
Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Apparently, the cleric was the type that didn't know how to spam ironheart...
When I was a young cleric elfin myself, amazingly, I too didn't know how to spam heal. I had decided from the start that I would build a Full Attack Cleric (as opposed to Full Support Cleric or even Hybrid), so I didn't bother to learn how to heal others until another cleric in squad yelled at me to "keep my stupid finger on the IH key"! Oh, that's how it's done! I was in my 50's by then.
For newbies, the cleric class has a steep learning curve and it takes a while before we can play our character properly. Many players build a cleric for its tremendous AoE grinding solo skills, which are even better on a full MAG cleric as the one I built.Worst thing is when the cleric doesn't know how to play their class. So, enlighten me. How would you deal with something like this? I was certainly going to kick him if he didn't get his **** a weapon, in any case.
People who power-level via oracles don't have the chance to properly learn their class, whether cleric or any other. All I can suggest is that you either arm yourself with patience or ask for experienced clerics to join your squads. Other than that, have fun![SIGPIC]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff122/dart2005/PWI/july05.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Crafting:
Tailor: lev 7
Blacksmith: lev 6
Craftsman: lev 6
Apothicary: lev 5
SEMI to 7/8 RETIRED, not from PW but from PWI
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Drmelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
To the OP: Making threads such as this dont help anyone to be honest. Try to just be nice and help the person out to aid them in being a cleric. You should be treating every cleric or barb as a gift now since the numbers are going down due to the stupid TB.
I would agree with you here as there is way to many players creating TB char.It is possible it could be this persons first BH and you said there were 2 pyschics well you got party heal.It would of been best to have two clerics instead of 2 pyschics and you being the party leader.You are just as much to blame as that cleric maybe more so.You had way to many dds in sqd.You have to think of party balance don't just stick a bunch of dd in a sqd and 1 cleric especially in this bh.
It would be nice if there were 8 spots or maybe 10 for sqd members.
^You aren't helping by saying FAC.Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0 -
MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »I would agree with you here as there is way to many players creating TB char.It is possible it could be this persons first BH and you said there were 2 pyschics well you got party heal.It would of been best to have two clerics instead of 2 pyschics and you being the party leader.You are just as much to blame as that cleric maybe more so.You had way to many dds in sqd.
It would be nice if there were 8 spots or maybe 10 for sqd members.
Way too many DDs? WTH? Once the tanking/healing is taken care of you want Damage. All things being the same it makes things faster. This "bring 2 Clerics" mentality is as noobish as it gets. 90% of the time you don't need two Clerics, just one that's competent...0 -
Kick him and call in a better one.0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Way too many DDs? WTH? Once the tanking/healing is taken care of you want Damage. All things being the same it makes things faster. This "bring 2 Clerics" mentality is as noobish as it gets. 90% of the time you don't need two Clerics, just one that's competent...
You want it to go faster then bringing one Cleric as if that Cleric dies it has to go back to town fly back to the bh and res anyone who has died.Learn Balancing if you know anything about being cooperative .Who resses the others if one dies one cleric is not enough with one healing and one ressing if needed?Cleric can do DD to so there for makes for better balance.When I started this game there were always two clerics even if doing FB19 but bh have ruined the learning curve for most or all classes.
What do they use in TW take that as an example yes two clerics?Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0 -
I started making a cleric after I played my veno to her 70's. At first, I made it because I wanted to have a support cleric for the faction (my intentions were to just level her to 64 for the max res b:chuckle , but I fell in love with the duties our support class was made for and Zikai is my new main).
Before I made this character though, I had always observed the cleric as a veno and watched what they did (or in some cases, what they should've done). Because of that, when I built my cleric, it made it easier to understand what I should do and when I should do it.
Now for your situation, I see some faction members complain in faction chat because of their failing clerics or failing squads in bh's. Our general rule is don't spam faction chat for help with bh unless it's with other people that need it - kinda thing. We understand that everyone has 3 to do everyday, so helping everyone with all of them is very unlikely. But I sympathize with the factionmates that have this issue, and I'll typically jump in their cleric's place if they decide to boot their fail one.
I don't know if you have any clerics of your own faction that's willing to do that, so without one like that... I would expect it to be difficult to find a new one at the platform, seeing as how finding one (that's functional) in general can be problematic.
Interestingly enough, we don't have a lack of clerics in my faction, so even if I was doing bh's on my veno, we have someone to work it out. I have experienced fail clerics outside the faction, but not enough to say I can fully understand your situation. =/[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Who heals the healer?0 -
for my part i love clerics most, who join bh 69+ pay the splitcost and go afk . =_=
well usually i dont like those ppl in general, joining bhs, putting someone on follow, and let others do the work being afk. and as soon as boss is dead they say "back, aww sorry, well thanks anyway" -> leave squad. man that happens a lot =/
b:angry0 -
personally im to nice to kick someone out =/ but
if i ever had a bad cleric like the one explained i would whisper somebody else to kick them out for me xD.
usually i ignore it untill i cant take anymore. it isnt yur fault if yuh has fail chars in a squad xD0 -
Uh... That would be because if the cleric dies then there is nobody to resurrect him/her (assuming s/he's the only cleric in the party), however if you die, then s/he can resurrect you.Doujin - Sanctuary wrote: »Or when I see a cleric taking aggro because of his heals/bb and all, i try to take it back, the cleric heals himself but not me.. why oOo why? If you heal me then I won't die so will you, if you heal yourself I'll die and then you'll die inevitably. I saved your ****, just save mine don't be so egoistic or lazy >.<
The #1 most important to protect person in the party is the cleric (for the previously stated reason), the #2 is the main tank (because he can keep the aggro off of others and take the damage), and then everyone else. It's not "egoistic or lazy" to want to make sure that the party doesn't have to wait 5-10 minutes for the cleric to go back to town and then come all the way back (or waste 50k on a resurrection scroll) just because you want a heal first.
Seriously. Except for bosses, there's little chance that they can't finish off most mobs if you die, because by that time the mob should be nearly dead anyways. And if you are talking about a boss, when the cleric dies, it's usually followed by the tank, then everyone else. This is why the cleric healing him/herself first is probably doing his job right.
It should also be noted that spells take time to cast. The cleric may have started to heal him/herself before you tried to pull the mob off of him/her. Plenty of clerics run with bad squads too, where nobody pays attention to them except when they want heals/buffs or nobody tries to pull mobs off of the cleric when he aggros, so self-healing is a good reflex.
Obviously this is situational, it depends on how much health you and the cleric have left. If you are really low and the cleric has plenty s/he should heal you first, but if you're both low, then the cleric needs to survive more than you do. Thinking you need to survive more than the cleric is "egoistic".0 -
A lot of morons dont know how to play their class at lvl 50- 60, they dont even know the basics like healing.
Ive been in parties in the past with barbs that tanks bosses in human form since they haven't learned a single tiger form skill yet at 60+. Or these lowbie clerics that refuses to heal what so ever saying they're "full attack clerics" and just thunder wields everything in fb39.
Guess the problem with "fail clerics" or "fail barbs" is that it will get party wiped lol. Clueless DD-classes wont destroy entire BH just because they're using wrong skills. Archers spamming vicious arrow and bleed arrow, wizards spamming DoT spells, venos that only has a nix and no pet for instances, will make the instance take longer and make you frustrated. But it wont cause a party wipe so you might be more lenient towards them being nubsauce.
You should really have kicked the cleric already at start when he agrod all mobs and didn't even have a weapon O_O0
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