Gold Trading for Profit

meshktenye · February 2010

Gold Trading for Profit

Gold Trading Interface

OK, first off I am NOT going to explain the basic Gold Trading interface in this post. If you need that you can go to this link. However, I will be referring to that link's graphics in this post.

LINKS

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=125991 this is a very basic guide to making money from the forums, intended for low levels and beginners to pwi.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=107622&highlight=crafting this is a detailed guide to farming mats and a guide to the construction skills.

Making Coins - General Advice

So, now you've asked everyone you know how to make coins in Perfect World. Perhaps the easiest way of making coins in Perfect World, and one of the most common (though few people are willing to admit it) is by spending actual hard-earned real world cash. Unfortunately, many of us are either unwilling or unable to use this option. So you have researched other methods. Some have told you to be extremely frugal and pick up every single last drop and coin and to fly instead of teleporting. These are all good suggestions. Some have told you to sell your Dragon Quest Drops to the NPC, Auction House, or to open up a Cat Shop. Again, all good ideas. Others have told you to buy Anniversary packs and either sell the contents or the packs themselves when the sale ends. Or Tokens of Good Luck. Again, all fine ideas. Others will tell you to grind for drops to sell, especially during 2x drop events. Of all of these ideas, grinding is perhaps one of the best. If you haven't already read the "grinding for money" post, please do so here.

Gold Trading For Cash

I will now explain my method of making cash. And that is the Gold Trading system built into the Auction House. But before you can buy gold you MUST have some coins. Use any of the above methods (with grinding as you primary method) to save up a small nest-egg. Now, the first secret you need to understand is that everything you can buy or sell in Perfect World is based on coins which is ultimately based on gold. In other words, Perfect World is based upon a gold economy. And the Gold Market in Perfect World works essentially the same as the Gold Market in the real world. All of this was intentional on the part of Perfect World. They have given us a wonderful game, but they need to pay the programmers, graphic artists, and other PW staff members. You can use real cash to buy Zen which converts to in-game gold. So in-game gold is Legal Tender, the basis of the PW economy, and the basis of all transactions (sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly).

Buy Low - Sell High

So what does all this actually mean to you? Well, it means that if you understand the Gold Market you can make cash, and lots of it, and sometimes extremely rapidly. When I started gold trading I couldn't find any guide, other an basic explanation of the Gold Trading interface. So I set out to learn by experience and by asking numerous friends. The basic advice I always got was, "Buy low - sell high". I hated when friends gave me this advice. I would ask for specific numbers, but none could answer me. Others would say the Gold Market is too volatile, risky or complicated and they avoided it. I was not satisfied with any of these answers and I was determined to understand the Gold Market.

Gold Trading Market Analysis

I started to collect data on various aspects of the Gold Market, and turned it into a chart. To make this easier, I am going to refer to the graphic from the Gold trading website. More specifically, I am going to refer to the two right-most sections entitled, "Price: Sell" and "Price: Buy". Notice that in the Price: Sell the numbers range from 179,900 to 183,500. In other words, if I owned one gold I would be able to sell it anywhere from 179,900 to 183,500 coins (assuming someone else were willing to buy it from me at those prices).

Also notice in the Price: Buy the numbers range from 173,700 to 176,200. In other words, if I had anywhere from 173,700 coins to 176,200 coins I could buy one gold (again assuming someone were willing to sell me their gold at those prices).

Now, just like in the real world, these prices fluctuate. So, we still don't yet have an understanding of what "high" and "low" means, but we are getting closer. The terms "high" and "low" are relative terms. They have no set meaning, and that is the problem. You can't say gold is selling "high" or to buy "low" by merely looking at numbers. To put it another way if one gold is selling for 179,900 to 183,500 coins, that might be "high" or "low" depending on market conditions. For example, if I had previously bought gold for 182,100, then for me gold is low and I do not stand to make much of a profit trying to sell it between 179,900 and 183,500. So for me, gold is not high. However, had I previously bought gold at 125,000, then I would be happy to sell it for between 179,900 and 183,500. So for me I would consider gold as being high while someone else might consider gold as being low.

Gold Trading Market Fluctuation

Again, lets look at the Gold Trading graphic. This time I want to talk about market fluctuation and splits. I want to look at four numbers specifically:

1) The highest Sell price - 183,500
2) The lowest Sell price - 179,900
3) The highest Buy price - 176,200
4) The lowest Buy price - 173,700

Lets subtract the highest Sell price 183,500 from the highest Buy price 176,200 = 7300. This represents what "high" is in the current market and your potential profit in the current market.

Now lets subtract lowest Sell price 179,900 form lowest Buy price 173,700 = 6200. This represents what "low" is in the current market.

Now lets average the two numbers (7300 + 6200)/2 = 6750. This represents our average potential profit.

Now I will tell you from experience that splits like this represent a flat market which is stagnant and not moving. It would be nearly impossible to make money in such a market. If the market looks like this it is time to grind. Fortunately, these numbers do not represent the typical Gold Trading market.

How to Predict and Spot a Good Split

So if the example I gave you is a poor split, then how can you spot good split? My personal opinion is that with a split of 30,000 or more then you can make money. Fortunately, 30,000 splits are relatively common. I really like it when the average is 50,000 or more. And if the split is 75,000 or more you can become seriously wealthy - meaning you can make millions of coins quite rapidly.

But to do this you must create a chart/graph and document on a daily basis all of the high and low numbers, and the splits I have mentioned. Good splits can happen very quickly and stop just as quickly. And you need to be able to take advantage of them when the happen. You need to have about 500k in coins and/or at least one gold available at all times. Whenever you are in a town that has an auctioneer, just make a quick stop by the auctioneer to check the Gold Trading Market. If there is at least 30,000 average split, then take advantage of it.

EDIT: 5/28/2010 When you do your chart the only two Gold Trading numbers you need to follow are the lowest Sell price and the highest Buy price. If there is a split of 30,000 then it is time to start trading. Further you should track what prices you buy at and what prices you sell at - and don't forget to included the PWI Gold Market fee involved.

When Do Good Splits Happen?

Here are some general observations:

1) When the split is increasing, gold is going up in value
2) When the split is decreasing, gold is going down in value
3) The split will go up in relation to events - therefore it is a good time to buy gold at the beginning of an event
4) Sell your gold before the split starts to shrink (don't get too greedy) - 5 days after the start of the event is a good time to sell your gold
5) Since PW is a Gold Economy, it is always better to buy gold than event items (such as Anniversary Packs, or Coral)
*6) There are fees involved with Gold Trading as the following post by Darksylph clearly points out, "...your fee to buy gold is coin only. The fee to sell gold is in silver. Basically if you have 20 gold, you can only sell 19 of that on the Auction cause you need 1 last gold to cover the fee in silver. Like was said above 1 gold = 100 silver. Its just your pennies. As was posted above, if you have 1 gold and something (like selling gold fee, or buying from boutique) costs 40 silver, you'd be left with 60 silver left over, without having had silver in the 1st place. Same as if you buy a 40 cent stick of gum and pay with a dollar bill, the cashier will give you 60 cents change, even tho you didn't have pennies/nickels/dimes/quarters in the 1st place."

Because of these fees if this is your first time Gold Trading to avoid buying Zen with real $$$ you would need to have about 660,000 coins (or whatever amount is necessary to buy 2 gold). Watch the market over a few weeks and observe how it fluctuates so you know that your original purchase is a good investment. You will need to grind, farm mats/herbs, sell at your Cat Shop,manufacture wine or any number of other methods of making enough coins to start Gold Trading.

* Thank you Illusiva for pointing out this omission in my original post.

Playing the Gold Market

Now that you understand the basics of the Gold Trading Market I want to show you some of the possibilities. What I am going to detail here is a series of Gold/coin trades I made in a single 2 hour period. What follows may not be typical for you and I cant make any promises. All I know is that I have made many similar transactions with similar results by following my method. Admittedly, this was my very best day ever Gold Trading. However, I have made many millions of coins many other days doing exactly as follows. This particular date was February 10, 2010. Notice that i was trading when the average split was about 130,000:

1) Buy 1 gold at 330000 coins **
2) Sell 1 gold at 4650000 coins
3) Buy 1 gold at 332000 coins
4) Sell 1 gold at 480000 coins
5) Buy 1 gold at 330000 coins
6) Sell 1 gold at 450000 coins
7) Buy 1 gold at 350000 coins
8) Sell 1 gold at 520000 coins
9) Buy 2 gold at 350000 coins (WOOT - up to 2 gold now)
10) Sell 2 gold at 530000 coins
11) Buy 2 gold at 390000 coins
12) Sell 2 gold at 560000 coins
13) Buy 4 gold at 350000 coins
14) Sell 4 gold at 530000 coins
15) Buy 5 gold at 370000 coins
16) Sell 5 gold at 520000 coins
17) Buy 7 gold at 380000 coins
18) Sell 7 gold at 510000 coins
19) Buy 10 gold at 360000 coins (I still have 180000 coins profit that is not enough to buy another gold)
20) Sell 10 gold at 510000 coins = 5100000 coins + 180000 - 330000 (original investment)* = 4980000 profit

*I had incorrectly said my original investment was 333,000 when in reality it was 330,000. I have adjusted my math to reflect this error.

** If you don't already have some gold, you will actually have to start off by buying 2 gold, due to the handling fee. In this case, my first transaction would have cost 660,000 coins.

Not bad, I started with 330,000 coins and turned it into 4,980,000 coins in about 2 hours time or a profit of 4,980,000 coins. I would buy, and then immediately sell, and then immediately buy again. Also realize that I often had buy and sell bids going at exactly the same time. This method does not work in a flat gold market. You have to be observant, you have to chart the prices on a daily basis, you have to be willing to watch for splits. Now, I will admit that was my best day ever. I typically make about 1 to 3 million. While I do chart the market every day, I do not play the market every day. I can't promise you will achieve the same results, but at least you will be able to go into the Gold Trading market with some basic knowledge on your side.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · February 2010

So... how do you pick your buy and sell prices when you have a good split?

Solandri - Heavens Tear · February 2010

meshktenye wrote: »

This particular date was February 10, 2010. Notice that i was trading when the average split was about 130,000:

1) Buy 1 gold at 330000 coins
2) Sell 1 gold at 4650000 coins
3) Buy 1 gold at 332000 coins
4) Sell 1 gold at 480000 coins
5) Buy 1 gold at 330000 coins
6) Sell 1 gold at 450000 coins
7) Buy 1 gold at 350000 coins
8) Sell 1 gold at 520000 coins
9) Buy 2 gold at 350000 coins (WOOT - up to 2 gold now)
10) Sell 2 gold at 530000 coins
11) Buy 2 gold at 390000 coins
12) Sell 2 gold at 560000 coins
13) Buy 4 gold at 350000 coins
14) Sell 4 gold at 530000 coins
15) Buy 5 gold at 370000 coins
16) Sell 5 gold at 520000 coins
17) Buy 7 gold at 380000 coins
18) Sell 7 gold at 510000 coins
19) Buy 10 gold at 360000 coins (I still have 180000 coins profit that is not enough to buy another gold)
20) Sell 10 gold at 510000 coins = 5100000 coins + 180000 - 333000 (original investment) = 4950000 profit

Not bad, i started with 330,000 coins and turned it into 4,950,000 coins in about 2 hours time or a profit of 4,950,000 coins. I would buy, and then immediately sell, and then immediately buy again.

Those are incredibly large spreads between the buy and sell price of gold. Typically, you will not be able to buy at 330k and sell at 465k, much less do it 20 times in the span of 2 hours. IIRC, Feb 10 was the day Coral Packs were removed, which led to large fluctuations in the price of gold on some servers (HT was, sadly, rather static). So yes you can make money on days like this where there is lots of movement in gold prices, but such days are few and far between. About once a month.

The vast majority of the time, the split between the bid and offer prices (buy and sell prices) is only about 10k. With gold at around 350k, the 2% transaction fee represents a 7k loss per gold traded. So on a typical trade, you're likely to only make about 3k per gold traded - less than 1%. Guess wrong and you can quickly find yourself on the wrong end of a price shift which wipes out 5%-10% of your working funds. On average an intelligent trader will eek out a small profit, but there is a tremendous amount of risk involved.

There are some semi-consistent daily and weekly shifts in the price of gold. If you study it long enough, you can usually learn these and capitalize on them to make some money. However, I should point out that if you're going to go to this much effort to make money in the game, you might as well use the same effort on the real stock market to make real money. Then you can toss a few dollars of your profit into the game.

meshktenye · February 2010

"So... how do you pick your buy and sell prices when you have a good split?"

Just don't get too greedy. If you are looking at the Gold Market and the numbers are changing rapidly, and there is about a 30,000 split, then it is probably a good time to start trading. Using the numbers from the Gold Trading website:

1) The highest Sell price - 183,500
2) The lowest Sell price - 179,900
3) The highest Buy price - 176,200
4) The lowest Buy price - 173,700

I would Sell around 181,700
I would Buy around 174,900

"Those are incredibly large spreads between the buy and sell price of gold."

As I stated this was NOT a typical day - I was merely posting what I had done in the Gold Trading market on one particular day that had a very good split to show what was possible. While it is true that the split is frequently only about 10k, it is also true that a 30k point split is not uncommon. I have been tracking this split for almost a year now and 30k point splits happen 7 to 10 times per month. 50k point splits happen 2 to 3 times per month and 100k+ point splits happen once a month. This provides plenty of opportunity to make coins in the Gold Trading market.

I am sorry I forgot to include the the 2% transaction fee. Thank you for pointing out this important fact. That is one of the reasons I recommended, "If there is at least 30,000 average split, then take advantage of it." If this is not the situation, I recommend grinding, running a Cat Shop, and looking for bargains at the Auction House and other people's Cat Shops. But with a 30,000 split it is possible to make a 500,000 to 3,000,000 coin profit with that one single 30,000 split time-frame (typically this may last anywhere from a couple hours to several days). Also remember, some people might be willing to take more risk than I am willing to take and might invest with just a 20k or even a 10k split.

Given that a 30,000 point split happens 7 to 10 times per month - this equates to 3,500,000 to 30,000,000 coins per month profit (NOTE: to make 30,000,000 you would have to be on-line practically full-time, so while it is possible - it is NOT probable). Now remember that there are also 40,000 to 130,000 point splits that also happen less frequently. I average about 1,000,000 to 3,000,000 profit per month in the Gold Trading market alone. I would also like to point out that I do not, and have never, spent a single penny of real money on this game. I make the majority of my coins in the Gold Trading market. Further, I honestly don't spend much time Gold Trading. I check the market 2 or 3 times per day which takes about 5 minutes each time - or 15 minutes per day. Only when I see a 30,000 or better split do I start investing. And I will spend maybe 2 hours trading if such a split occurs. Further, I don't always take advantage of every 30,000 or better split because I like playing, questing, exploring, chatting with friends, and assisting friends better than Gold Trading. As a rough guess, I would say I spend a total of 10 hours per month tracking the Gold Market and Gold Trading. Like I said I typically make about 1 to 3 million profit per month in the Gold Market. I know I could make more if I wanted to because my best month's profit with Gold Trading alone was 18,750,000 coins - and to be honest, I really didn't work all that hard doing that.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · February 2010

I would probably sell 10 gold for 100 million coins as it is from real money.I see TT90 sets of armour going for 25 million which I would say is over priced.

Maiira - Sanctuary · February 2010

10 gold wouldnt get you more than 7mil even when gold has its peaks. 10gold wouldnt get you 100mil unless you spent alot of time working at it. i do part of what this guide is but only at specific times, when gold dips to 300-400k each i buy as much as i can with in game coin. and when it peaks to 500-550k each i sell it. i do this with approx 50-80 gold at a time making approx 5-12mil every time id does this which is approxamately once every 3-5 weeks

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · February 2010

I don't care it is my real life money that I use to charge to buy zen and if I want to sell it for 100 mill I will.People did not use real life money to get TT90 gear unless they refined so at 25mill is rediculouse(sp).

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear · February 2010

You can TRY to sell for 100 mil... that doesn't mean it will be bought (and believe me, it won't.)
Also, if you don't like the price of TT90... buy or farm the mats yourself. It will take time, but it's cheaper.

Thrasymachus - Sanctuary · February 2010

I don't want to pass any judgment on whether or not people should do this to make coin in game, but I do want to point out that this sort of speculation on gold prices is one of the reasons gold trades at higher prices than many people think it ought to. But at the end of the day, it's not much different than buying mats or gear low and selling high. Speculation raises prices, it's a fundamental truth of markets.

But I do take issue with your boast that you never spent any real money on the game. If you enjoy playing the game as much as you say, then you should throw the guys who run the servers a couple of bucks every now and then. After all, you'd throw a street performer a couple of bucks if he was pretty good, wouldn't you? This has got to be worth at least that much to you.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · February 2010

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You can TRY to sell for 100 mil... that doesn't mean it will be bought (and believe me, it won't.)
Also, if you don't like the price of TT90... buy or farm the mats yourself. It will take time, but it's cheaper.

I don't see how TT90 gear is more expensive than cashshop items.I don't care how long it took to farm them those who used real money worked for it.You wouldn't have gold in the game if other didn't but it to sell at the price they want.

Archibald - Raging Tide · February 2010

I am not quite sure if I understand the gold trading system. If the "Buy" price lists what players are willing to pay for gold, and the "Sell" price lists what players want for gold, then the players buying would have to wait until someone sells at their expected price. Sellers would have to wait until a buyer is prepared to offer the (higher) selling price to buy gold. So, with a larger gap between Sell and Buy, wouldn't the players just have to wait longer until the Sell goes down and/or the Buy goes up? I fail to see how a larger gap makes for a better opportunity to make money fast. If you had just one seller selling at 200000 and one buyer buying at 100000, how do you make a profit from this situation? By buying for 110000? Or by selling at 190000?

I have to admit that money isn't my forte - I would really like to understand it better. Maybe someone has an explanation for dummies?

Solandri - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Archibald - Raging Tide wrote: »

I am not quite sure if I understand the gold trading system. If the "Buy" price lists what players are willing to pay for gold, and the "Sell" price lists what players want for gold, then the players buying would have to wait until someone sells at their expected price. Sellers would have to wait until a buyer is prepared to offer the (higher) selling price to buy gold. So, with a larger gap between Sell and Buy, wouldn't the players just have to wait longer until the Sell goes down and/or the Buy goes up? I fail to see how a larger gap makes for a better opportunity to make money fast.

There are actually 4 things going on, not 2.

Offer to sell gold (these are the listings on the top)
Bids to buy gold (these the listings on the bottom)
Purchases of gold (these make listings on the top disappear)
Sales of gold (these make listings on the bottom disappear)

Obviously, each purchase must be linked to an offer, and each sale must be linked to a bid. But the last two (purchases and sales) are invisible to the gold trade display since they make listings disappear. Basically, there are people who are patient and willing to wait to buy/sell gold to get a better price by listing offers and bids. And there are people who are impatient and want their gold/coin immediately, so they make purchases and sales to match existing listed offers and bids.

Say the lowest offer (gold for sale, top half of the display) is 400k, and the highest bid (looking to buy gold, bottom half of the display) is 300k.

You place a new bid for 320k, which is substantially higher than anyone else's bid so likely to sit at the top for a while. One of the impatient people selling gold checks, sees your bid is the highest price, and sells you the gold.

You take the gold you just bought and immediately offer it for 380k. An impatient person interested in buying gold checks, sees your offer is the cheapest gold, and buys the gold from you.. You've just turned 320k into 380k, minus 4% in fees (14k, leaving a net profit of 46k).

Basically, you're acting as middleman for the impatient people. Giving them the gold/coin they want right now, and reselling their gold/coin the patient way for a better price, and pocketing the difference.

Thrasymachus - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't want to pass any judgment on whether or not people should do this to make coin in game, but I do want to point out that this sort of speculation on gold prices is one of the reasons gold trades at higher prices than many people think it ought to.

This is incorrect. The system is perfectly symmetric. For every 1 gold which is bought, 1 gold is sold. For every 100k coin which is bought, 100k coin is sold. So this type of speculation cannot raise or lower the price of gold. Yes when a speculator buys gold, he raises the price of gold. But when he turns around and sells that gold, he lowers the price of gold.

What the speculation does do is cause large spreads between the bid and offer price to close more quickly. So if the spread were 100k, this type of speculation would cause the spread to collapse to ~10k more quickly than if there were no speculation.

(The risk the speculator takes is that the final price of gold in the above example may not settle in the middle at 350k. If it settles at 280k and he just bought a bunch of gold at 320k hoping to resell it at 380k, he's going to lose a lot of money. So playing the market this way does not scale very well to large amounts of money. You need your bids and offers to be filled quickly to minimize the risk, which pretty much limits them to small amounts like 1-10 gold. People with >100 mil bank accounts aren't going to be interested in speculating this way.)

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Handwavey - there's also a 2% fee don't forget. So speculators won't close the gap tighter than that.

Archibald - Raging Tide · February 2010

Thanks a lot, I think I understand now...

Illusiva - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Its also worth pointing out that in order to sell 1 gold, you must pay some silver (as in cash shop currency). This means that if you don't buy gold with rl money, you need to buy at least 2 gold at a low price to start selling high (1 gold to resell, the other to use as silver fee). It also means that, like any business, profit won't be instantaneous and that you will need to keep on buying and selling until you "break even" which means you've got to earn back what you spent initially to start the process...

meshktenye · February 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There are actually 4 things going on, not 2.

Offer to sell gold (these are the listings on the top)

Bids to buy gold (these the listings on the bottom)

Purchases of gold (these make listings on the top disappear)

Sales of gold (these make listings on the bottom disappear)

Solandri, thank you for clarifying several points I made and also for adding much information, some of which I knew nothing about.

meshktenye · February 2010

Maiira - Sanctuary wrote: »

i do part of what this guide is but only at specific times, when gold dips to 300-400k each i buy as much as i can with in game coin. and when it peaks to 500-550k each i sell it. i do this with approx 50-80 gold at a time making approx 5-12mil every time id does this which is approxamately once every 3-5 weeks

Thank you Maiira for pointing out an important fact i forgot to mention. Of course it is quite possible to make good coins as you have suggested. I was merely attempting to explain the mechanics of the Gold Trading market and give a clear example of how it was possible to very quickly make a good profit using a method I use quite frequently when I need lots of coins real fast.

meshktenye · February 2010

Illusiva - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its also worth pointing out that in order to sell 1 gold, you must pay some silver (as in cash shop currency). This means that if you don't buy gold with rl money, you need to buy at least 2 gold at a low price to start selling high (1 gold to resell, the other to use as silver fee). It also means that, like any business, profit won't be instantaneous and that you will need to keep on buying and selling until you "break even" which means you've got to earn back what you spent initially to start the process...

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to insult you - but you are absolutely incorrect.

1) Look at my example - I have never used any "cash shop" currency to Gold Trade

2) I have never bought gold with rl (real life) money

3) My example clearly points out that you can start with only about 330,000 in game coins to purchase a single gold. Further, I recommended that people grind to build up this initial nest-egg.

4) I clearly pointed out that my "break even" point was my 9th transaction when I said, "WOOT - up to 2 gold now"

5) I also have already apologized for not including the 2% transaction fee. But to be honest, the transaction fee is essentially irrelevant because it is factored into my numbers. The fact is my example was a series of actual transaction - not some made up, fictions, numbers. I started with 330,000 coins and turned it into 4,980,000 coins PROFIT (with the 2% fee figured into it). In that particular series of transaction I ended with with 5100000 coins (from the sale of the 10 gold I had purchased) + 180000 (coins left over from the purchase of the 10 gold) - 330000 (original investment) = 4980000 profit (I had sold all my 10 gold, and this is how many coins were left in my account after I subtracted the original 330,000 investment). So who cares if there is a 2% Transaction Fee? I made a profit of 4,980,000 in a 2 hour period.

6) While I clearly pointed out that this particular day had a very good split, I also pointed out that I had also done exactly the same thing on days with only a 30,000 split. Admittedly, I did not make as much money on those days.

7) I also pointed that a 100+ point split, while not normal, is not uncommon either and happen about once every two months or so and coincide with events.

8) I am not special in any way - anyone can do what I do easily if they are just a little dedicated.

9) If you don't believe my method works, please feel free to NOT use it.

meshktenye · February 2010

Thrasymachus - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't want to pass any judgment on whether or not people should do this to make coin in game,

Thank you for not passing judgment on me, I honestly appreciate that. I do not apologize that I have never spent any real life cash on this game. I'm sure many elderly, and/or disabled people on fixed incomes, as I am, also appreciate that nobody passes judgment on us. And yes, there are many elderly and/or disabled people on fixed incomes who play Perfect World. Talk with any of the people in the Oldies faction on the Sanctuary server to verify this fact.

Perfect World Intentional states, "Perfect World Entertainment offers all their games free-to-play, operating the microtransaction business model."

The fact is they created the Gold Trading market with the clear intention that it be used as a means of making a profit.

Illusiva - Heavens Tear · February 2010

meshktenye wrote: »

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to insult you - but you are absolutely incorrect.

1) Look at my example - I have never used any "cash shop" currency to Gold Trade

2) I have never bought gold with rl (real life) money

3) My example clearly points out that you can start with only about 330,000 in game coins to purchase a single gold. Further, I recommended that people grind to build up this initial nest-egg.

4) I clearly pointed out where my "break even" point was my 9th transaction I said, "WOOT - up to 2 gold now"

5) I also have already apologized for not including the 2% transaction fee. But to be honest, the transaction fee is essentially irrelevant because it is factored into my numbers. The fact is in my example was a series of actual transaction - not some made up, fictions, numbers. I started with 330,000 coins and turned it into 4,980,000 PROFIT (with the 2% fee figured into it). When I Gold Trade I start off my putting all my coins in my bank Safe, an all my Gold out of my Gold Account. In other words when I start Gold Trading i have no gold available and only 3330,000 coins ( or whatever amount of coins I need to purchase exactly one gold). So in that particular transaction I started with exactly 330000 coins. I ended with with 5100000 coins + 180000 - 330000 (original investment) = 4980000 profit.

6) While I clearly pointed out that this particular day had a very good split, I also pointed out that I had also done exactly the same thing on days with only a 30,000 split. Admittedly, I did not make as much money on those days.

7) I am not special in any way - anyone can do what I do easily if they are just a little dedicated.

I suggest that you go back to the gold trade screen and then on the sell screen input the 1 gold you want to sell and the price you want to sell it at. You'll see that it clearly charges you a fee of 2 silver cash shop currency for every 1 gold cash shop currency you post on sale which is the 2% fee out of your 1 gold (just like the 2% fee that gets charged from your coins when you buy). This means that a player cannot sell 1 gold unless their deposit holds at minimum a total of 1 gold and 2 silver. And the only way to get that silver if you didn't have gold or silver to start with is by purchasing and breaking down an additional 1 gold (1 gold = 100 silver). Ergo, unless the system doesn't charge the 2 silver as long as there is exactly and only 1 gold on your account and I'm unaware of it, this means that a player with absolutely no gold to start with needs to purchase 2 gold in order to cover both the 1 gold they want to resell and the 2 silver fee to post it. It also means that whilst the buying transaction fee might be factored into your guides numbers, the selling transaction fee is not, nor is it mentioned (hence me pointing it out initially).

The link below is to another post in another thread which also states this fact.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6755542&postcount=4

Also, I never said any of the following:

a) that YOU personally had bought gold with real life money at some point or
b) that this method cannot produce a profit or
c) that you made up your transactions and figures.

so I'm not entirely certain why you felt the need to point that out. I can only assume that either you did not read my initial post properly, or you misunderstood it.

Malaquey - Heavens Tear · February 2010

I keep a list of gold prices and when it goes up by more than 50k its a good time to buy
if it goes back down again i just wait for it to recover, i bought 80 gold at
300k each and waited three weeks to sell at almost 500k

meshktenye · February 2010

Illusiva - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its also worth pointing out that in order to sell 1 gold, you must pay some silver (as in cash shop currency). This means that if you don't buy gold with rl money, you need to buy at least 2 gold at a low price to start selling high (1 gold to resell, the other to use as silver fee). It also means that, like any business, profit won't be instantaneous and that you will need to keep on buying and selling until you "break even" which means you've got to earn back what you spent initially to start the process...

Illusiva, I want to apologize - I had misunderstood your input originally and I now understand what you were saying. You are absolutely correct in what you are saying. Further, I have added a new paragraph to my original post and given you the credit.

Maiira - Sanctuary · February 2010

a wonderfull guide as well, and thankyou for posting a link to my guide. i have done this numerous times. whenever there is an event happening gold prices skyrocket to 500k+ each, but when the events are all stopped if dropps to about 300-350k each i take this opportunity to buy gold in bulk, usually 100gold+ each time it drops to 300k then resell when it hits 500k+ for over 15mil profit. but i still make most of my coin off of grinding since you can only pull something that big off once every 3-5 weeks

Illusiva - Heavens Tear · February 2010

meshktenye wrote: »

Illusiva, I want to apologize - I had misunderstood your input originally and I now understand what you were saying. You are absolutely correct in what you are saying. Further, I have added a new paragraph to my original post and given you the credit.

Heh it's no problem. b:cute

I just had visions of masses of new and inexperienced players grinding their little hearts out to earn around 330k-ish coin and putting it all in the Gold Trade only to find that they've just spent the majority of their coin (which they are bound to need for skills and equips) on something they can't instantly resell for profit b:chuckle

SuperFireFly - Harshlands · March 2010

First of all, I wanted to say thank you for the guide. Yesterday, I turned 1 gold and 58 silver along with 150000 coin into 6 gold ~8 silver and 215000 coin. This was done in a market with a split of 30-40k. I did it by checking the gold trade before going out for a quest and when returning the quest. So this really means that I made about 1.7 million in profit.

I did not spend lots of rme behind the gold trade screen. Oh.... For the record I have spent real money on this game and really appreciate a way to earn coin inside the game in effort to reduce the real money spent.

Thank you again.

Saifor - Harshlands · March 2010

There is one thing I think would also be helpfull to players that do not have the money to buy gold and intends to use the Gold Trader as a method to make money. There is now a way to earn Zen through PWI's website. Just by doing the free choices you could easily gain 5-10 gold for an hours time. For new players (like myself) this is an easy way to gain gold fast to start selling on Gold Trading. You'll still have to keep an eye on the market but this eliiminates most of the time required to grind your initial gold. Hope this helps.

Ginkasora - Raging Tide · March 2010

Sticky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mitties - Dreamweaver · March 2010

So, I'm still a little confused. How do you decide what to bid? Like, do you just bid the best price, or halfway in between, or what? Obviously how many gold is being bid at each price is a factor as well?

Saifor - Harshlands · March 2010

Mitties - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So, I'm still a little confused. How do you decide what to bid? Like, do you just bid the best price, or halfway in between, or what? Obviously how many gold is being bid at each price is a factor as well?

unfortunatly most of that depends on your own logic and luck, for me though i tend to sell in the top half range of the prices. normally the same for buying.

mrpedroluz · May 2010

"Again, lets look at the Gold Trading graphic. This time I want to talk about market fluctuation and splits. I want to look at four numbers specifically:

1) The highest Sell price - 183,500
2) The lowest Sell price - 179,900
3) The highest Buy price - 176,200
4) The lowest Buy price - 173,700

Lets subtract the highest Sell price 183,500 from the highest Buy price 176,200 = 7300. This represents what "high" is in the current market and your potential profit in the current market.

Now lets subtract lowest Sell price 179,900 form lowest Buy price 173,700 = 6200. This represents what "low" is in the current market.

Now lets average the two numbers (7300 + 6200)/2 = 6750. This represents our average potential profit.

Now I will tell you from experience that splits like this represent a flat market which is stagnant and not moving. It would be nearly impossible to make money in such a market. If the market looks like this it is time to grind. Fortunately, these numbers do not represent the typical Gold Trading market."

In that example, what exactly is the split? Is it 7300, 6200 or 6750?

meshktenye · May 2010

QUOTE: "In that example, what exactly is the split? Is it 7300, 6200 or 6750?"

The most conservative way to answer that question is to use:

The lowest Sell price - 179,900
The highest Buy price - 176,200

And therefore, 179,900 - 176,200 = 3,700 split

This is a HORRID split and i would NEVER recommend anyone trade gold at these prices. Remember, you should wait for a split of at 30,000 AT THE MINIMUM before gold trading. Fortunately, this kind of split happens about once a month or so.

Also, i just made a minor update to my main past.

Gold Trading for Profit

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