Clerics and pots saving
Epidemy - Sanctuary
Posts: 33 Arc User
Hi,
I am quite puzzled about something that has been in my mind for a few months now.....
I am not a support Cleric, but as a FAC, I am often the best single target healer in the squad, thus sometimes devoted to tank healing. This is not my point, though...
My point is that I often notice that as soon as a cleric is in the squad, (too) many people stop using (HP) pots. And some of those require the cleric to heal as soon as they get some HP left, although most of the involved ppl just wait until the cleric heals them.... which often happens when a cleric sees someone's life becoming dangerously low (and also to avoid the terribly-unfair-kiddy "Do your job!"). When you heal, you have to use pots: so it's not like you are saving pots too.
(I am not talking about tank healing, indeed, nor squad healing because of AOE boss : this is a support cleric usual role, so I am not discussing this).
So, I am really wondering if you think it's fair when you (cleric) become other's pots saver... because basicely it's cheaper for everyone but the cleric to let the cleric heal instead of using pots.
My own point of view is that as soon as you start healing ppl when they could have used pots instead, you legitimize such a behavior. Although I am always pleased to heal people I enjoy (regardless of the price), I am a little frustrated to see some others abusing my "generosity" to save money. So when I am not squading with ppl I know or appreciate, usually, I only heal the tank unless I see that the situation requires some urgent AND legitimate heal (bad agro, bad aoe, and so on). When I am asked why I don't heal, I tell them to use pots. And if I see someone DDing but not healing himself when he could have healed easilly with pots, then I just let him get some good fear of death... usually, they pot before they die (if they do not, I am not that bitter that I cannot revive).
There are indeed other problems matching other classes that could be pointed out the same way. Then I am not trying to start a clerical revolution in order to get more consideration from other classes, but I eventually really wanna have you opinion on this point.
I am quite puzzled about something that has been in my mind for a few months now.....
I am not a support Cleric, but as a FAC, I am often the best single target healer in the squad, thus sometimes devoted to tank healing. This is not my point, though...
My point is that I often notice that as soon as a cleric is in the squad, (too) many people stop using (HP) pots. And some of those require the cleric to heal as soon as they get some HP left, although most of the involved ppl just wait until the cleric heals them.... which often happens when a cleric sees someone's life becoming dangerously low (and also to avoid the terribly-unfair-kiddy "Do your job!"). When you heal, you have to use pots: so it's not like you are saving pots too.
(I am not talking about tank healing, indeed, nor squad healing because of AOE boss : this is a support cleric usual role, so I am not discussing this).
So, I am really wondering if you think it's fair when you (cleric) become other's pots saver... because basicely it's cheaper for everyone but the cleric to let the cleric heal instead of using pots.
My own point of view is that as soon as you start healing ppl when they could have used pots instead, you legitimize such a behavior. Although I am always pleased to heal people I enjoy (regardless of the price), I am a little frustrated to see some others abusing my "generosity" to save money. So when I am not squading with ppl I know or appreciate, usually, I only heal the tank unless I see that the situation requires some urgent AND legitimate heal (bad agro, bad aoe, and so on). When I am asked why I don't heal, I tell them to use pots. And if I see someone DDing but not healing himself when he could have healed easilly with pots, then I just let him get some good fear of death... usually, they pot before they die (if they do not, I am not that bitter that I cannot revive).
There are indeed other problems matching other classes that could be pointed out the same way. Then I am not trying to start a clerical revolution in order to get more consideration from other classes, but I eventually really wanna have you opinion on this point.
Post edited by Epidemy - Sanctuary on
0
Comments
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What do people do when they see you're healing tank only? Reduce their damage output. Squad slows down, and you probably don't save much: you have to heal tank more. If you want to save pots, refrain from attacking, not healing.LTraveller, lv85 veno
NamiOto, lv80 full support cleric
RoamingAdmin, 7X fist/axe BM
Ion_Cannon, 6X full mag wizard
(full support: healing + fire support)0 -
Filter circumvention is still a banable offence. Aryannamage0
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When I'm in a squad and someone uses an HP pot, I actually get somewhat offended since it means that they don't trust me to heal them properly. I'm a cleric, neither full support or full attack. Clerics can heal and attack equally, and to think that I won't heal a squad member when his HP gets low is just a bit ludicrous tbh. It's not that expensive to toss an emergency wellspring at them, and it's also a nice gesture. If you don't attack, your MP recovery should be high enough to cover that heal without using MP pots, though I would hate to just spam heal throughout the instance and not deal extra damage to help speed up the run.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired - Radiance0 -
I tend to have the opposite problem. Let's say for example, that I am healing a boss with a short range aoe. Of course I will heal the short range attackers that are getting hit along with the tank. However, say a veno goes into fox form and runs up to use one of their fox skills and gets hit. I'll toss a heal on them (after waiting to see if they pot or use a heal skill, which they rarely do), and instead of being grateful they yell at me not to heal them, just heal the tank. 1.) If the tank's hp looks good, and I feel I can handle a quick heal on a party member, then don't tell me not to do it. 2.) If you die because you yelled at me not to heal you and didn't bother to pot up, then it's going to be much more difficult for me to do my job because of the channeling time for revive. 3.) I don't feel like getting yelled at because you died from your own lack of judgment.
I think I am just getting tired of people who don't know how to play this game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you will practice being fictional for a while, you will understand that fictional characters are sometimes more real than people with bodies and heartbeats.0 -
When I'm using Soul Transfusion at Dimentora or, say, amp Myriadtail Wyvern, I too tell the cleric: don't bother healing me. Not because I'm ungrateful, and not because I don't know how to play a cleric -- but because I understand that cleric might be busy enough already.LTraveller, lv85 veno
NamiOto, lv80 full support cleric
RoamingAdmin, 7X fist/axe BM
Ion_Cannon, 6X full mag wizard
(full support: healing + fire support)0 -
LTraveller - Dreamweaver wrote: »When I'm using Soul Transfusion at Dimentora or, say, amp Myriadtail Wyvern, I too tell the cleric: don't bother healing me. Not because I'm ungrateful, and not because I don't know how to play a cleric -- but because I understand that cleric might be busy enough already.
If the cleric wants to heal you, then let them heal you. It's their mp and skill, plus your hp won't be going down.0 -
FSC and FAC again
/facepalm0 -
I understand completely, used to play Cleric main and will be lvling an alt on new server i play now soon.. main priority is tank, if people run around the dungeon aggroing stuff stupidly while the tank is trying to do his job, and they're still expecting heals then they're in for a shock.
/threadAeonieX - Hybrid Vit Veno 6x
HarmieX - Pure Mag Psychic 6x
KyraneiX - Axe/Fist BM 4x
KyranthoX - Axe Barb 2x
KyyranthoX - Hybrid Cleric 2x
AskariX - Pure Dex Assassin 2x
KyraneiiX - Pure Dex Archer 0x
AeoniiX - Pure Mag Wizard 0x0 -
This is the very reason I believe every genie should have Second Wind. I do tell the Cleric not to bother healing me (on Assassin) because my genie's Second Wind can give me a full instant heal, and whenever I use it, I run back and DD with bow until it is back.
However, I don't see why anyone wouldn't use pots. I use them a lot mostly just because I can still keep a profit after buying more pots. If my HP does get very low and I am aggroing multiple mobs (as I often do when either there isn't a Barb/Blademaster around or when I'm saving the squishies from death), I do expect them to keep me healed as much as they can.
So, just heal when you can, and if they tell you not to heal them, don't. If they die, don't revive them and tell them it was their own fault because they asked you not to heal them.0 -
Even if you heal constantly every single member of your squad through a run you shouldn't need to pot at all.
On most BH bosses you should be able to heal the tank without trouble without using one pot, just by playing with the sparks. If you have to heal the rest of the squad and that doesn't risk the tank dying, do it. At bosses, everyone should be using pots. I doubt it's a common thing to see the mage just sitting on the ground when he runs out of mana.
Oh, and what do you mean by Full Attack Cleric or Full Support Cleric? What should that even mean? Because I have my heals maxed, excluding something like stream which is level7, my freezing seals are both maxed, same goes for my base attacks. I left tempest at level1 and AoE heal at like lvl 4. Buffs and res topped too.
Does that make me a full everything cleric? because everyone should be...0 -
Raviste - Heavens Tear wrote: »When I'm in a squad and someone uses an HP pot, I actually get somewhat offended since it means that they don't trust me to heal them properly. I'm a cleric, neither full support or full attack. Clerics can heal and attack equally, and to think that I won't heal a squad member when his HP gets low is just a bit ludicrous tbh. It's not that expensive to toss an emergency wellspring at them, and it's also a nice gesture. If you don't attack, your MP recovery should be high enough to cover that heal without using MP pots, though I would hate to just spam heal throughout the instance and not deal extra damage to help speed up the run.
Quoted for emphasis.
Fun Fact: Best way to minimize pot costs is to bend to the squad's needs first, including those that aren't the tank. They're the ones that are ultimately gonna determine how many resources we burn, so treat 'em good and proper. If you're working with good peeps, they'll appreciate the fact you've got their back and will work faster and more efficiently, while being more willing to bend for you in return.
Granted, you WILL come across those that are just ignorant as all hell and worth leaving to die lots...but meh. Grin and bear it and move on. @#$% happens.0 -
People don't use pots if a cleric is around simply because the cleric is the healer, they are ment to heal and de-buff when its safe.
There is no such thing as a FAC in this game because people won't want you if you dont heal them because thats what your job is for, Its like a barb being a DD barb and having no vit at all to allow him to tank.0 -
Drmelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »People don't use pots if a cleric is around simply because the cleric is the healer, they are ment to heal and de-buff when its safe.
There is no such thing as a FAC in this game because people won't want you if you dont heal them because thats what your job is for, Its like a barb being a DD barb and having no vit at all to allow him to tank.
Just this. And FAC = /facepalm0 -
Miss_Cleo - Lost City wrote: »Just this. And FAC = /facepalm
Its what actual experience of playing a cleric teaches you, im no oracle noob b:victory0 -
Drmelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Its what actual experience of playing a cleric teaches you, im no oracle noob b:victory
Trust me, i know b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TurboWolf - Harshlands wrote: »Oh, and what do you mean by Full Attack Cleric or Full Support Cleric? What should that even mean? Because I have my heals maxed, excluding something like stream which is level7, my freezing seals are both maxed, same goes for my base attacks. I left tempest at level1 and AoE heal at like lvl 4. Buffs and res topped too.
Does that make me a full everything cleric? because everyone should be...
Sooo much win. Cleric attack and heal are equally important. b:byeand bro...fyi this isn't a story.
All people are idiodic but some are more idiotic than others.0 -
Drmelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »People don't use pots if a cleric is around simply because the cleric is the healer, they are ment to heal and de-buff when its safe.
There is no such thing as a FAC in this game because people won't want you if you dont heal them because thats what your job is for, Its like a barb being a DD barb and having no vit at all to allow him to tank.
I sqded with a Fac on my Veno at lvl 43 didn't have celestial guardian seal and lvl30 armour.This was around Arrowhead.Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0 -
I do not care whether people have pots or not because my main job is to heal and I am good at it. The only problem I have when I help what is wrong with using my "other spells" I can fight and take over 5k damage without critical s. And do not tell me that the enemies only go after clerics that is a total lie they go after other class's within the party also.b:chuckleb:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:pleased0 -
TurboWolf - Harshlands wrote: »Even if you heal constantly every single member of your squad through a run you shouldn't need to pot at all.
On most BH bosses you should be able to heal the tank without trouble without using one pot, just by playing with the sparks. If you have to heal the rest of the squad and that doesn't risk the tank dying, do it. At bosses, everyone should be using pots. I doubt it's a common thing to see the mage just sitting on the ground when he runs out of mana.
Oh, and what do you mean by Full Attack Cleric or Full Support Cleric? What should that even mean? Because I have my heals maxed, excluding something like stream which is level7, my freezing seals are both maxed, same goes for my base attacks. I left tempest at level1 and AoE heal at like lvl 4. Buffs and res topped too.
Does that make me a full everything cleric? because everyone should be...
ok first thing.
i have seen many mages meditate in the middle of a boss battle
and second thing full support will focus on heals and buffs while having little attacks as possible (only plume shot and cyclone) where a full attack will have almost all attacks maxed and most likely only ironheart to heal[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thank you Forsakenx for the amazing signature0 -
XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »Raviste - Heavens Tear wrote: »When I'm in a squad and someone uses an HP pot, I actually get somewhat offended since it means that they don't trust me to heal them properly. I'm a cleric, neither full support or full attack. Clerics can heal and attack equally, and to think that I won't heal a squad member when his HP gets low is just a bit ludicrous tbh. It's not that expensive to toss an emergency wellspring at them, and it's also a nice gesture. If you don't attack, your MP recovery should be high enough to cover that heal without using MP pots, though I would hate to just spam heal throughout the instance and not deal extra damage to help speed up the run.
Quoted for emphasis.
Quoted for more emphasis.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
9x Demon Cleric0 -
TurboWolf - Harshlands wrote: »Oh, and what do you mean by Full Attack Cleric or Full Support Cleric? What should that even mean? Because I have my heals maxed, excluding something like stream which is level7, my freezing seals are both maxed, same goes for my base attacks. I left tempest at level1 and AoE heal at like lvl 4. Buffs and res topped too.
Does that make me a full everything cleric? because everyone should be...
agree, Im a level 88 cleric in PW indonesian server, and have all skills lvl 10. Full support and full attack is just choices for the player, but the cleric supports well, and deals lots of damage too0 -
Sorry to answer that late (have been a little busy since I posted this).
Although some of you discussed about FAC/FSC, I won't answer this, and I ask you not to answer too : this is not the point here. You'll find hundreds of FAC/FSC related threads. I just quoted it because it sounded important to me in order you can fully understand my point of view. What I call a "support" cleric may have a totally different point of view according to this "support" orientation. And some of you proved me I was right.
Anyway, I am very interested in (most of) you answers. I will keep looking at incoming answers.0 -
I have never actually bought mana pots. I only use what i get as drops and event hose I have stacked up.
I wanna + 1 that quote that was emphasized a few times. I actually dont like when i see the little red bubbles come around ppl. If a bm uses sutra fine, if a veno uses whatever their heal is called fine but dont bother potting one of my wellsprings is fast and powerful enough to get them right back up.
If your worried about mana say "i need to med a sec" and sit down. If they go get themselves killed they cant say u didnt warn them.
Also if you only focus on the tank what in the world are you going to do when u get to FCb:shocked[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
A lot of friends of mine play clerics. They always take care of the full squad, unless people are acting totally ****. (things like wizzie rushing into phys mobs, don't attack and then demands heals while he's practically dead already)
For healing agro, never sacrifice yourself. The cleric is the heart of a team, you have to keep yourself alive before the rest
As veno I rarely get hit, though in TT I run out of mana pretty quickly while bosses.
I usually just do soul transfusion if there's no AOE reducing my hp to lower then low. I don't ask for heal but most cleric send me an IH when they notice it, I actually always thank them for it. ^^ While bosses it is the main priority to keep the tank alive, it's always nice to know the cleric is still taking care of the full squad
b:cute [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Silvychar for the awesome sig
Characters:
waterfal - lvl 90 demon ferrari veno
Hazumi_chan - lvl 9x sage seeker0 -
ok first thing.
i have seen many mages meditate in the middle of a boss battle
and second thing full support will focus on heals and buffs while having little attacks as possible (only plume shot and cyclone) where a full attack will have almost all attacks maxed and most likely only ironheart to heal
if u have mages in ur squad doing that ask for lead, kick them and tell them exactly that: Their only purpose is to DD, if they don't they are useless and cheap.
I'm a lvl 93 full Mag. cleric and I've played most of the other classes too. From my experience it should be the cleric that heals everyone and ppl shudnt hv 2 waste HP pots! Ever! And as a cleric no one expects you to deal damage if you really don't want to/have to heal the squad.
I myself, however, always give my best - which means keep everyone alive, debuff and DD whenever I got the time to. Why? Simply because I wanna give my best and show ppl what a good cleric can do. That also means: I use (comparedly) a lot of MP.
There is a simple way to cope with that: Be a good cleric, get a lot of people on your f-list and never go do stuff with random squads. Especially in TT for me it is standard to get a bigger part of the share (and I expect that) than most other classes - and no one ever complains. I think it is like an unwritten rule that the cleric and barb get the most share out of TT runs.
When I do TT 2-2 I use like 2 event pots per Boss and get the rest of my MP thru sparks. Its a bit diff. with bosses where you need BB but there barely are any - or they dont need a longer period of blue (if you are full mag and have decend gears).
That I can use so little MP is also due to the fact of my "no random squads" rule - to return to that topic. I take about 1 hour for a TT 1-3 with a 4 ppl squad with ppl between 80 and 94. The faster it goes the less MP I need, the higher the profit - and then it doesn't matter if you have to heal all AND deal damage AND debuff if it allows them to just give their best as well and kill the bosses quickly.0 -
b:cute well, to me the role as a cleric is to heal all sqaud; but not stupidity that will cause your own death. for instance I will not heal someone who goes out on thier own on a killing spree away from the whole sqaud or even a better example; when it its agreed that Tank will tank they decide to keep stealing arggo from tank just to **** the sqaud off. Yes, sure your talking about saving pots; I am pretty sure all cleric are trying to save thier pots (Gets me all the time), but the main role/duty/purpose of the cleric is to heal the whole sqaud not just tank... You may concentrate on the main tank but dont expect for others to heal themselves because you wouldnt like it if you were in a sqaud with a cleric who ONLY heal tank right? I know i wouldn't... b:laugh Overall, I'm just saying that the main role as a cleric is to keep and heal the whole sqaud not just tanks.
-Missy^^*ChicknFlick*
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I have no problem healing people to save on their hp pots/charms; blademasters and barbs aggro the physical mobs to save on mine. Wizards and archers (and everybody else) deals damage, so that I'm not troubled with the responsibility of healing AND killing stuff.
Food for thought: your heals are far and away more cost effective than hp pots. Compare the prices of hp pots, mana pots, and then look at how much ironheart/wellspring heal per mana.
I've said it before: in a given squad, 5 people can deal damage more or less effectively, here exempting barbs; ONE can effectively* heal. Don't be one of those clerics who gets complained about in the other class threads b:victory
Last comment, this discussion becomes essentially moot once you reach level 75, at which point you get access to herb yuanxiao. It's only slightly more expensive than sesames were, when at their cheapest.0 -
If you really feel frustrated with others using you as free HP pots, you can always just heal and not do anything else in squad. Most squads I have been in do not care what the clerics do at all as long as you keep them alive. Thats an option you can go with and if you want to be DD, healer and debuffer, don't QQ about the mana cost when you have mana problems. If you stick to just heals, you won't consume as many pots.
FAC or not, the fact is that clerics are better at healing than other classes. In a squad, everyone should play their role and if you are the only cleric, you should be the one healing. If you want them to stop using you as a HP pot, find a squad with a proper support cleric so that you can stick to your DD role. And make it clear that you want to DD. (I've seen more deaths in squads with more than 1 clerics than squads with only 1 cleric)Thanks Chillum for the nice Sig.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I try to heal / puri / buff all in squad (yes, buff too, there are things that purge buffs from squad and you have to rebuff them during boss fight).
However:
i do pay attention to everyone, but may not have the time to take care of them all. If you get hit and dont get healed - use common sense, and take a pot or two. I may be too busy ot cant switch fast enough or are too far away or im channeling something bigger that wellspring atm...
on hard bossess i _tell_ squad they are on their own. and they better believe me... if im giving my all to barb and tank aoe damage on charm and pots so can they
ppl whining about 'youre not healing enough and my charm ticked' get on my nerves... my cbarm ticks all the time and only instance i get compensated for that is TT b:surrender
no, i dont mean i want to get payed... i mean i dont want to hear whining about every single hp charm tick - and not from main tank either...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Missy_kathie - Sanctuary wrote: »Yes, sure your talking about saving pots; I am pretty sure all cleric are trying to save thier pots (Gets me all the time)
Actually, I was not talking about my saving pots, but about other using me to save their pots. Even if it is related, I think it makes a difference in the answer. Maybe yours would be different according to this...?0
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