Sage fist BM

Fists have the base attack speed of 1.43 attacks/sec or 0.7 second of interval between attacks. To achieve 5 attacks/sec, you'll need 0.2 interval between attacks. So basically what you need is a total of -0.5 interval between attacks to achieve 5 attacks/sec. What's available to BMs in PWI right now are:

TT90/99 Gold wrists or Bracers of Blood Moon: -0.1
Love: Up and Down tome: -0.05
Lunar cape: -0.05
Nirvana recast on TT99 leggings: -0.05
Lionheart set bonus: -0.05
Ashura set bonus: -0.05
Lunar Claws/TT100 fists and Nirvana recasts: -0.1

The set bonuses are obtained from having any 2 pieces of LA or HA TT99 armor, including ornaments. The reason people go half HA and LA is to get both bonuses. If you can afford all of the above, which majority of the players won't be able to, you'll have 4 attacks/sec and can reach 5 with either Cyclone or Relentless Courage on a high STR genie.

didnt wanna start a new thread for this, but: I use 80 Buddha fists currently and was thinking og getting 90 zerk fists, will the zerk make up for interval gear.... oooooo zerk fists + interval gear b:dirtyb:dirty

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

i know someone who has those and tbh if you dont have high hp dont get them. He attacks so fast and zerks often he almost kills himself on bosses, lots of dmg yes but u have to know what ur doing too :P.

well my use for them would be to kill barbs in pvp fast with tripple spark and genie speed boost.

Frost fists should be cheaper....and they have a life gaining add woot!!!

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

sage fist BM would be much better than a demon one if they could achieve that magical number.

Sage spark 25% damage reduction is better than nothing, amirite?

Umm yeah, probably. If triple spark then Cyclone can get you to 5/s as well, it would seems better than demon. Now did swordman see that coming when he picked sage? Who knows? b:shocked

<---went demon because poor. b:avoid

It always matters if you go sage or demon for fists regardless of final attack speed (actually it becomes more important the faster you attack), as a sage you lose out on nearly 2 seconds of DD for cyclone heel which when you hit the 5 attacks per second cap is 10 hits (and sparked these can be 1k+ for a total of 10-12k damage lost) this can be the difference between killing someone before the stunlock ends although to be honest in most cases sparking isnt even needed to kill people with fists.

Michael - Harshlands wrote: »

It always matters if you go sage or demon for fists regardless of final attack speed (actually it becomes more important the faster you attack), as a sage you lose out on nearly 2 seconds of DD for cyclone heel which when you hit the 5 attacks per second cap is 10 hits (and sparked these can be 1k+ for a total of 10-12k damage lost) this can be the difference between killing someone before the stunlock ends although to be honest in most cases sparking isnt even needed to kill people with fists.

ok didnt read that but u just answered my question

Fisted b:chuckle. He ran my Sin's FB59 and was so set on getting zerk fists instead of FC or Claws.

A few important things. 5 aps perma demon sparked > 4 aps perma sage sparked dps wise. What about sage fist mastery you might ask? Believe it or not sage fist mastery is only THREE PERCENT more damage than demon fist mastery, not including that extra 1% crit. That's already a neglible number in pve, imagine how much smaller the damage gap is in pvp. Finally, demons get demon hf and demon gs, both EPIC skills.

Demon > Sage

Swordman still fails

ssilly wrote: »

Any reasons for thiz ? b:surrender

For technical purposes lets say we have the same lvl 95 BM with same interval gears; same mastery lvl; same skill lvls; same build (distribution of str, vits, dex) etc.. only difference between these 2 are, one is demon and other is sage.
During PVE, demon BM will aggro most of the time because of their dps gained from their demon spark. Sage BM with fist on the other hand will aggro during zerk where the FC 95 fist gives off increase phy attack and added dps along with the double edge sword Curse. Since sage BM cannot pull the added dps from their skill except cylone heal, we look somewhere else to supplement this ie. genie skill like leaf dance, relentless courage and pots. Being sage BM, i find it cumbersome to use genie skills and pots just to add dps, so i eliminate this by using the FC 95 fist.
Now let me get a little technical which i hate to do cuz i'm sure someone will dissect this and take it out of context, so i will look at pwi etacomb to be more precise.
lvl 11 fist, axe, pole, sword mastery on sage BMs gives 90% added damage based on equipment value vs the demon which only gives 75% +1% crit. 15% added damage for sage BM vs 1% crit. you may ask, "will the 15% added damage gained from equipment be enough?" Now, i told u that FC 95 fist gives off increase physical attack and dps when they zerk., so my advice for sage BMs who wants to use the FC 95 fist; Don't neglect refining your weapon because this will give you more base phy damage. Also, your build (distribution of vits, str, and dex) makes the difference whether you will be a successful sage BM with FC 95 fist.
Being a pvp sage Fist BM, my advice is go minimum str and dex and put the rest on vits for added hp will make it harder for them to kill you. Also, that added vits increase your pdef and mdef.
Now lets not talk about PVP sage BM vs demon BM for this will depend on timing, careful use of sparks, pots and genie skill which most player cannot master unless they spend a lot of time pvp'ing out of SZ... Go ahead and crunch the numbers if you want with demon BM vs sage BMs, but one thing is for sure; Both path have its advantage and disadvantage. So just using the premise demon path vs sage path is better PVP/PVE is like saying "Dude duh, my car is better than yours!" so begin the long argument xD.

MALIGNO - Harshlands wrote: »

Sage BM with fist on the other hand will aggro during zerk where the FC 95 fist gives off increase phy attack and added dps along with the double edge sword Curse. Since sage BM cannot pull the added dps from their skill except cylone heal, we look somewhere else to supplement this ie. genie skill like leaf dance, relentless courage and pots. Being sage BM, i find it cumbersome to use genie skills and pots just to add dps, so i eliminate this by using the FC 95 fist.

Nice point ^ but the CV claws has a -0.1 int which could increase the dps...
But the FC95 fist has the zerk.. any idea whtz da attck.rate increase whn it activatez ?

b:puzzled looked above and got dizzy with the numbers.

MALIGNO - Harshlands wrote: »

Fist BMs are the most complicated BM build and even more so when you are sage. If you don't have the TT 99 gears, 80-90 gold bracers, Love up and down and the interval cape; you might want to consider going demon. Last thing, FC 95 claw vs Fist. my advice on this is go claw if your demon and Fist if you're sage.

so we are talking about sage BM and what's more advantageous to them to use cube fist or decide claw. Remember and keep in mind, the cube fist or decide claw is just one tool out of your overall make up. To be successful on PVE/PVP will depend on how you properly execute the other skills you have on your arsenal. Now, i think what a lot of players really want to know is what tool will give them the EDGE on PVE/PVP. well guys and gals, this will depend entirely how adept you are using your skills. "A pen is mightier than the sword" but even more deadlier on a ESKRIMA master. You see, it don't really matter what you use; claw or fist, bottom line is how you use it and what you use it on PVE/PVP.

I adviced on cube fist for sage BM and decide claw for demon BMs because of what i mentioned on my earlier post based on my experience. All what claw do is constant ticking while fist spikes (when it zerks) for a sure kill. As i look at the above comment, i am fascinated with all the numbers so good job on that. But if i may ask where the heck did u get 3.33 as max for fist users. Are u talking about sage BMs or demons? i really don't want to prolong this because crunching the numbers and actually testing it on the field is totally different with all the different factors involve. Last thing i want to address before i retire this thread is the question of ST u get from the claw vs the spike damage u get from fist.

Decide claw - -.1 interval and ST (% debuff of max oppnents HP)
Cube Fist - Zerk ( will increase attack speed and phy damage along with Curse)


AGAIN, these numbers wont matter unless you have full cognitive use of all your skills. But so far, in my experience FIST spikes for the sure kill while claw just ticks the charm out of your opponent.

So in summary, the more gears/weapon with interval adds/bonuses = more dps; b:victory got it. Now, i think we both agree the more of these you have the better Fist users you will be so lets move on. Now you mentioned, Fisted got the LA bracer instead of heavy. If you happen to stop by at Harshland and see who is the bane for most high lvl barbs and BMs, u will see mages and those dang Nuclear warhead that they have called water dragons or whatever they use. At +90 BMs lack mdef/elemental resistance against these high damage casters not to mention magic damage mobs. To compensate we look for gears that can strengthen some of these deficiencies thus the reason for the LA bracers or maybe LA chest green TT for the later 99 LA chest. I know +160 elemental resist may seem not much but this will make the difference between being one shotted along with marrow magic by these nuclear warheads which btw i think should be banned.b:shocked