Genie with Ice Blast?

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
edited March 2010 in General Discussion
Ever since I got my Hercules, I've been soloing more frequently, especially bosses. Since I elected to go demon over sage, I don't have access to sage Soul Degeneration.

I thought making a genie for Ice Blast would be a good idea, to save time when soloing bosses. However, at present, my Ice Blast genie only removes 6.3% max HP.

Is this skill worth keeping? Or should I trash the genie in favor of a high magic genie, more able to spam skills like extreme poison?
Post edited by Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear Posts: 916 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    If you'd be ok with squading, just get an archer to go with you. It's much faster that way. But if you don't like squading, that's a decent skill. I don't really recommend extreme poison as it doesn't do THAT much (since if you're doing a TT boss, you'll most likely only be able to heal). Plus, you can always amp the boss.

    Come to think of it: Level 10 Amplify Damage lasts 20 seconds with a 30 second cooldown. Level 11 Demon Amplify Damage lasts 6 seconds longer, which totals up to 26 seconds with a 30 second cooldown. You'd basically be in amp all the time except for 4 seconds inbetween. Extreme poison isn't needed.
    I call it how I see it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thanks Santacruz! :D
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you'd be ok with squading, just get an archer to go with you. It's much faster that way. But if you don't like squading, that's a decent skill. I don't really recommend extreme poison as it doesn't do THAT much (since if you're doing a TT boss, you'll most likely only be able to heal). Plus, you can always amp the boss.

    Yes, I can amp the boss, but, extreme poison also stacks with amplify. And if all I can do is spam heal, I can still use extreme poison, since genie skills have no channeling/casting time. 20% extra damage (even if it is only pet damage) is fairly significant, especially if I can get it to last 12-15 seconds.

    I guess what I'm really asking is: Will the time saved by taking off that 6.3% make up for the huge investment in vitality the skill requires?
  • pand0ra
    pand0ra Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ice Blast is great if you dont have an archer at hand.
    Mine does 6.5% reduction (I made a special genie for the skill) I also have xtreme poison on there but I barely use it as I tend to save genies Energy for Ice Blast.

    6.3% of 4million hp (Astral walker 2-2) = 252 k in one shot.. imo that beats having xtreme poison unless you plan on keeping it up the whole time.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I don't think i've seen info on Ice Blast's base reduction nor on how much it increases with level. At 16 Dex points to 1% you can easily double the reduction on a Dex based genie which should already make it half as good as sage soul degeneration. At lvl 90 the skill can be leveled to 7, this may prove almost as good even if every level only increases HP reduction by 1%. I would encourage you to experiment.

    Edit; Could you please provide info on your genie's stats and what level Ice Blast you have skilled? I think it could help.
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    pand0ra wrote: »
    Ice Blast is great if you dont have an archer at hand.
    Mine does 6.5% reduction (I made a special genie for the skill) I also have xtreme poison on there but I barely use it as I tend to save genies Energy for Ice Blast.

    6.3% of 4million hp (Astral walker 2-2) = 252 k in one shot.. imo that beats having xtreme poison unless you plan on keeping it up the whole time.

    But how much time has that 252k hp saved? 2 minutes? 3?

    If it were a flat 10%, I would agree that it is very worth it. but at 6.3%, even 7.3%....I'm just not sure
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I don't think i've seen info on Ice Blast's base reduction nor on how much it increases with level. At 16 Dex points to 1% percent statting you can easily double the reduction on a Dex based genie which should already make it half as good as sage soul degeneration. At lvl 90 the skill can be leveled to 7, this may prove almost as good even if every level only increases HP reduction by 1%. I would encourage you to experiment.

    Level 1 Ice blast consumes 160 energy, and increases by 3 energy per level. Level 7 Ice Blast requires such a massive amount of energy, that it leaves little room, if any, for dex.

    My genie has level 1 Ice Blast, with 60 vit, (for the 160 energy required) and 56 dex. I planned to cap dex at 64, to gain 7.3% hp reduction (3.3% base reduction at level 1)

    However, I won't be able to get 64 dex until the genie nears level 100, unless I get extremely lucky with lucky points at level 90 (genie is currently 80, with 57/80 points)

    Edit: Alternatively, I could add 72 vit, level Ice Blast to 5, and cap dex at 48, which would give me 7.5% reduction. Either way, it's unlikely I will be able to push the hp reduction higher. And the tremendous vit required makes the genie fairly useless for much else.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Level 1 Ice blast consumes 160 energy, and increases by 3 energy per level. Level 7 Ice Blast requires such a massive amount of energy, that it leaves little room, if any, for dex.

    My genie has level 1 Ice Blast, with 60 vit, (for the 160 energy required) and 56 dex. I planned to cap dex at 64, to gain 7.3% hp reduction (3.3% base reduction at level 1)

    However, I won't be able to get 64 dex until the genie nears level 100, unless I get extremely lucky with lucky points at level 90 (genie is currently 80, with 57/80 points)

    Thanks, i see your dilema. Doesn't seem efficient at all. My guesstimate would be that a 7% reduction should only save you a little less than a minute and a half in a 20 minute fight. Given the costs of enhancing the performance of this skill i'm not sure it's worth it.
  • pand0ra
    pand0ra Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    didnt say nothing b:surrender
  • Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear Posts: 916 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    But how much time has that 252k hp saved? 2 minutes? 3?

    If it were a flat 10%, I would agree that it is very worth it. but at 6.3%, even 7.3%....I'm just not sure

    This is where you put in some mathematics work. Pick a boss, test your Hercules's average in attack, then calculate by dividing the damage reduced by the skill with the average to see how many hits it takes to get that much damage reduced.

    Example:
    2-2 Astral Walker - 4m HP
    Ice Blast - 252k HP
    Hercules's average hit - 2500 (101 "hits")

    Now, assuming that it takes 1 second for each attack, it would take about 1.7 minutes to take off 252k HP.
    I call it how I see it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thanks Santacruz! :D
  • pand0ra
    pand0ra Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This is where you put in some mathematics work. Pick a boss, test your Hercules's average in attack, then calculate by dividing the damage reduced by the skill with the average to see how many hits it takes to get that much damage reduced.

    Example:
    2-2 Astral Walker - 4m HP
    Ice Blast - 252k HP
    Hercules's average hit - 2500 (101 "hits")

    Now, assuming that it takes 1 second for each attack, it would take about 1.7 minutes to take off 252k HP.

    DONT CALCULATE IT..

    it makes the skill look really meaningless.. and such a waste of my SPIRIT b:sad
  • Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear Posts: 916 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    pand0ra wrote: »
    DONT CALCULATE IT..

    it makes the skill look really meaningless.. and such a waste of my SPIRIT

    /facepalm. Sorry then, my fault for choosing the sage path and avoiding such a dilemma. b:avoid

    b:infuriatedb:beatupb:sweat
    I call it how I see it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thanks Santacruz! :D
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    After thinking it over, I've decided that the skill really wasn't worth the investment. 7.5% hp reduction would save time when soloing bosses, but not enough time to make it worth crippling a genie.

    And since my genie is now useless for everything but Ice Blast, I need to decide what to do with it.
  • Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear Posts: 916 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Too bad you're not in my server. I'd sell you my gold genie that has Extreme Poison. b:chuckle

    If it's a gold genie: wash out the skills and sell.
    If it's not a gold genie: Decomp.
    I call it how I see it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thanks Santacruz! :D
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    It's 57/80. Resetting all the stats and affinities would likely cost more than selling the genie would make (even if it was gold). So, I'll either decomp it, or use it for pulling. (yeah, it's a zeal b:surrender) also, with high dex, it can use extreme poison, it just can't use it very often due to low energy regen.
  • Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear Posts: 916 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It's 57/80. Resetting all the stats and affinities would likely cost more than selling the genie would make (even if it was gold). So, I'll either decomp it, or use it for pulling. (yeah, it's a zeal b:surrender) also, with high dex, it can use extreme poison, it just can't use it very often due to low energy regen.

    An "almost" gold genie wasted. Best to just wash it, or, as you've stated, use it to lure. But even luring would be a pain since, as you've also said, there is a low energy regen.
    I call it how I see it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thanks Santacruz! :D
  • Aejuyi - Heavens Tear
    Aejuyi - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Just get it with extreme poison...
    It saves you about 2min and that less mana wasted. b:laugh
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    With the vit the genie's got you should be able to use EP almost 3 times in a row so it's not that bad. I use a Dex based genie and depending on affinities there's plenty of skills that work; Earthquake, Fortify and Holy Path are good Dex based skills. ToP might work somewhat decently if you want a heal on it. Also, it might be cheaper and more convenient to stat Str when it does level unless you think you can get it's regen up to a decent enough rate.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    But how much time has that 252k hp saved? 2 minutes? 3?

    If it were a flat 10%, I would agree that it is very worth it. but at 6.3%, even 7.3%....I'm just not sure
    It reduces your fight time by 6.3% or 7.3%. Doesn't get much simpler than that. If the fight would've taken 10 minutes without the skill, with the skill it will take 9 min 22 sec (6.3%) or 9 min 16 sec (7.3%).

    There seem to be two philosophies when it comes to genies: "OMG I can't believe chi stones are so expensive; I want to use my genie as infrequently as possible." And "Who cares what chi stones cost I get free ones at 90+ anyway; I want to spam my genie skills as much as possible."

    The first type tends to go for vit genies (max energy pool) and one-shot or emergency skills. Ice Blast is good for them.

    The second type tends to go for mag genies (max energy regen) and spammable skills. Extreme Poison is good for them. Mathematically, Extreme poison will shorten your fight more than Ice Blast for the same investment in genie stat points, and is unaffected by the presence of an archer or Sage Veno in your group. But keeping it applied throughout the fight will consume a lot more stamina than Ice Blast.
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Level 1 Ice blast consumes 160 energy, and increases by 3 energy per level. Level 7 Ice Blast requires such a massive amount of energy, that it leaves little room, if any, for dex.

    My genie has level 1 Ice Blast, with 60 vit, (for the 160 energy required) and 56 dex. I planned to cap dex at 64, to gain 7.3% hp reduction (3.3% base reduction at level 1)

    However, I won't be able to get 64 dex until the genie nears level 100, unless I get extremely lucky with lucky points at level 90 (genie is currently 80, with 57/80 points)

    Edit: Alternatively, I could add 72 vit, level Ice Blast to 5, and cap dex at 48, which would give me 7.5% reduction. Either way, it's unlikely I will be able to push the hp reduction higher. And the tremendous vit required makes the genie fairly useless for much else.
    The skill was nerfed in the great genie revamp. It used to do a base 5% reduction at level 1, with the potential to realistically hit 12% reduction. I made a genie specifically for it just before the nerf. The genie now sits unused in my bank. Only reason I haven't decomposed it is because I still use it to try out skills that require >105 energy now and then.
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I tend to not be bothered by how much stamina my genie uses, though I haven't used many genie skills until now. Mainly because I can't decide which genie skills benefit me the most.

    Double Edit: I just ran a 3-1 solo, and the bosses took long enough where Ice Blast may have made a small difference. So, I've decided to tweak my Ice Blast genie a little more, and give it extreme poison as well.

    New plan, restat dex to 50 (5 more seconds on Extreme Poison, 3% hp reduction on Ice Blast) get vit to 72 (enough for Ice Blast level 5, total reduction 7.5%)

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