Heavy/Robe Mix
hawkflight
Posts: 0 Arc User
So what do you guys think about a heavy-robe mix of armor? Combining Heavy armor and Robes for the capacity to adjust what you have based on your needs?
PLEASE, for the love of all that is chocolate. If your advice involves me spending IRL money on this game, save us both the trouble and don't bother. And before you tell me to suck it up and get a job, I have plenty of money, for me it's the principle of the matter. I will be the best, and without spending a dime. Thank you for your time.
Post edited by hawkflight on
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it has better defenses than that of say LA, but you sacrifice alot of magic attack for it. i dont like HA builds and find them a poor excuse for one.
its stat heavy and a bit of a pain to pull off, but even then, why bother gimping your killing capability just for some pdef?
LA has crit
vit arcane/pure mag have nuking power
HA has... chicken/debuff reliance[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
advice to fledgling archers:
Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.0 -
If done right (so you can equip a magic weapon of your level), you only sacrifice about 15%-20% of your magic attack relative to a 4 mag, 0.5 str, 0.5 vit build. In practice this works out to about 10% less damage on your spells, about 15% less on pet heals. Hardly what I would consider "a lot". For a 3.5 mag, 0.5 str, 1 vit build I've frequently seen suggested (100 vit at level 100), the difference is going to be even smaller.WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »it has better defenses than that of say LA, but you sacrifice alot of magic attack for it. i dont like HA builds and find them a poor excuse for one.
The benefit is you can exchange armor so your magic defense is as high as the mag/vit build, or swap armor to hit 20k pdef by level 90, or any combination in between. I occasionally tanked Polearm for BH69 when we couldn't find a real tank. All those archers in FB79 barely scratch me when I pull them. And if someone else is tanking, I don't even need cleric heals for bosses with physical AOE like Feng or drummer. I just leech back whatever AOE damage I take. The build makes possible a lot of new strategies for fighting many different mobs and bosses.
The hard part is collecting all the +stat gear to make heavy/arcane work. The build requires 2.5 str, 0.5 dex, and 3 mag per level. That's 6 stat points per level, but you only get 5. The rest has to be made up with +stat gear. I did it at 64, but I wouldn't recommend it til 80 or 90. 70 at earliest. By 90 it's fairly easy because of a wider variety of quest rewards and TT/legendary gear which gives lots of +stat bonuses.0 -
more like lvl 99/100 since you will find yourself at those lvls with 80/90 gear and you have to find/craft gear again, another set of shards and refines0
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more like lvl 99/100 since you will find yourself at those lvls with 80/90 gear and you have to find/craft gear again, another set of shards and refines
well i guess it really depends on if your planning to get that TT99 set. I'm not however, ill be stopping at TT90 armor, maybe save up for event gear. and maybe just get the TT99 wep.>.<0 -
getting TT90 at 100 is kinda easier stats wise while getting it/wearing at 90 is harder0
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I'm not usually one to defend heavy armor builds, but in the case of said builds you aren't at all trying for magic damage. If you haven't noticed by now, all the fox form skills are physical based. Thus any magic attack is really kinda wasted if you never leave fox form. Only thing it really helps with is going to be the pet. But with a cleric alt on another account and PC, you could tank bosses yourself instead of using the pet.WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »it has better defenses than that of say LA, but you sacrifice alot of magic attack for it0 -
WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »LA has crit
vit arcane/pure mag have nuking power
HA has... chicken/debuff reliance
Doesn't vit arcane have to put 100s into vit? How would they have as much as pure mag?0 -
hawkflight wrote: »So what do you guys think about a heavy-robe mix of armor? Combining Heavy armor and Robes for the capacity to adjust what you have based on your needs?
Its a good and cheap build if you wanna have high survivability but cant afford g11 shards and +8 belt/necks etc.
You have far more phy def than LA
More mag def than LA
About same hp (depending on refines) but less crit
About same mag attack as LA since majority of LA venos have minimum magic and rest into vit
With a refined weapon, amp, poison you still hit pretty hard as HA/AA
Pure arcane is the best of course endgame but far more expensive if you wanna get enough phy def to avoid being a 2-3 shoot. Venos unlike wizards and clerics have no self buff for phy def (unless you wanna hide in foxform all day) so you need to work rather hard on refines as arcane.0 -
ExtraTwisted - Dreamweaver wrote: »Doesn't vit arcane have to put 100s into vit? How would they have as much as pure mag?
^^ may as well be a melee fox.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
close to 100 by level 100, its no where near as much a loss as HA/LA can be.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
advice to fledgling archers:
Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.0 -
WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »close to 100 by level 100, its no where near as much a loss as HA/LA can be.
But HA isn't caster focused. b:byeBe kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
without decent -interval items HA will do worse than casters b:bye0
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Hmm that's awful strange, my HA veno is constantly stealing aggro from vit AA venos her level, both when using magic in human form and melee attacks in fox form. A lot of magic? My vit AA veno was, at 90, 315 magic, 330 with gear. Switching to HA/AA, she went to 302, went, when buffed from (in human form) 1500 pdef to 10500 and (in fox) 20000. She also can switch into arcane to gear nearly 10K ele res. You have quite a few misconceptions about HA/AA veno builds that you need to overcome.WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »it has better defenses than that of say LA, but you sacrifice alot of magic attack for it. i dont like HA builds and find them a poor excuse for one.
its stat heavy and a bit of a pain to pull off, but even then, why bother gimping your killing capability just for some pdef?
LA has crit
vit arcane/pure mag have nuking power
HA has... chicken/debuff reliance
The only downside to it you never even mentioned in this post, which is it's not cheap whatsoever, given a decent HA/AA build has 2 sets of rings, 2 weapons (one for melee, one for magic attacks), 2 sets of armor (plate, legs, feet, arms). I don't rely on debuffs at all, even though every veno should be using them regardless of their armor. This HA/AA nonsense you talk about is entirely fabricated by your own misunderstanding of HA/AA and nothing more. Nobody should, and hell, any HA/AA veno knows they never would take your post with an ounce of credibility. Btw, -24 channeling isn't bad for a gimped debuffer, especially one that can stand in the middle of melee combat without having to worry about kiting all over the place when melee mobs hit them. It was pretty funny watching a vit AA veno take aggro from their herc on Stygean, then go down in 3 hits, then I tanked the thing in fox form, having over 10 times their defense, and likely another 30-50% more reduction than them, on pots alone.
To the above poster, there is no use for a caster -interval. That's for a fox build for someone who plays in fox and wants faster melee attacks. Now, regarding channeling, every decent veno build should have it as much as they can, because they will inherently be worse (in terms of heals and damage) without.0 -
an anecdote doesnt supply proof for the validity of your alleged misconception. #1 no knowwledge of other venos gears, #2 no knowledge of your gear #3 no knowing of it the veno was trying to hold back damage for a certain kind of tank. among other things.Hmm that's awful strange, my HA veno is constantly stealing aggro from vit AA venos her level, both when using magic in human form and melee attacks in fox form.
if you read, it said MAGIC ATTACK, solandri pointed out its almost a 10-15% drop.A lot of magic?
hes saying you need interval gear + melee to match or outdamage a well built caster. this has been pointed out a number of timesTo the above poster, there is no use for a caster -interval.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
advice to fledgling archers:
Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.0 -
There was no tank, just a bunch of venos spam attacking and a cleric in BB. The usual case when there's no barb and a ton of foxy foxes. Is there a case you can think of where anyone ever does have the same gear? I sure can't. So what's with the demand for proof of something that is near impossible to find? It's not a big enough deal for me that I'd do some soul searching for a veno with the exact same things I have, because I've never found one yet.WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »an anecdote doesnt supply proof for the validity of your alleged misconception. #1 no knowwledge of other venos gears, #2 no knowledge of your gear #3 no knowing of it the veno was trying to hold back damage for a certain kind of tank. among other things.
The only caster I really need interval gear to outdamage are decently built wizards, and I'm not even sure I could with that, especially when they do their pyro->gush combo. I've tried without any success thus far. Venos are amongst the least viable threats when casting magic of taking aggro from mine when hitting melee in fox form. In fact, I tend to give them a running head start by switching weapons, switching rings, going into fox, amping, then hitting/sparking, and it's a very short time until I take aggro back. Clerics are second to venos in terms of least viable threats. A HA/AA sage veno with melee mastery and a magic sword with garnet shard(s) is likening to a fist bm, depending on which fist they use (and refines) in terms of dps, and from what you've shown in your posts, you underrate this. The loss a veno incurs when HA especially when moving from a vit AA to HA/AA is most noticeably heals, for someone who pays strict attention like myself. For novice HA's, they will have a tough time at first. Soon as the veno throws on -channeling gear, it's cake and the difference is no longer noticeable on pet heals. Magic attacks are stronger for a pure magic veno, but not by any significant degree for a vit build veno if at all. Enough to where I pull aggro from vit AA venos on a consistent basis, whether it be in BH or FF, when attacking the same mobs.hes saying you need interval gear + melee to match or outdamage a well built caster. this has been pointed out a number of times
I'm still chuckling at the debuffer nonsense. b:chuckle0 -
-interval gear for wizards? you are confusing things around. anyway, you said you have 330 mag with gear, i have 350 without gear and like 137 vit with gear on. my gear set is not even complete. since you dont use any -interval gear and you play as caster well i dont think you outdamage one with more mag unless you probably have a consistent amount of crits.
now, you said that you have 10 times more pdef than arcane. buffed and fox for probably can get to 8-9k with decent gear but not that great so unless you score 80k than its not really true and this difference is like 10-15% in damage reduction not even close to 30-50% unless you find some real poor veno or doesnt care yet about gear.
venos with interval gear get like half atk speed than fists bm. even with identic bm gear, which is not realistic and not able to play venomancer right, your mage triple spark still doesnt help you and your hp is even lower than bms. getting interval gear along with a magic sword around your lvl is even harder to aquire the dps of a fist bm and not to mention that bm's have the highest accuracy in the game and 5 chi per hit0 -
8-9k? I have yet to come across a veno without major CS gear that has more than 4K when completely buffed -- human. I have 12.5K - 14.5K when buffed -- human (depending on which wristguard I use), 19.9 - 22K when in fox. Since the majority of what was being talked about (especially what I misunderstood at first) was melee fox versus magic human, that is figuring out the difference of 85% and 30-50%, and I'll let you do the math. What you run into when actually playing, instead of messing around with pwcalc, is quite variable, and I dunno why, if we're talking about melee fox dmg versus magic casting veno, you would suggest how much pdef someone has in fox for magic in comparison to fox for melee. Additionally, note the word "likening" to a fist bm, which does not mean better, nor does it mean exactly the same, it means similar to. Comprehension is key too when differentiating two things.-interval gear for wizards? you are confusing things around. anyway, you said you have 330 mag with gear, i have 350 without gear and like 137 vit with gear on. my gear set is not even complete. since you dont use any -interval gear and you play as caster well i dont think you outdamage one with more mag unless you probably have a consistent amount of crits.
now, you said that you have 10 times more pdef than arcane. buffed and fox for probably can get to 8-9k with decent gear but not that great so unless you score 80k than its not really true and this difference is like 10-15% in damage reduction not even close to 30-50% unless you find some real poor veno or doesnt care yet about gear.
venos with interval gear get like half atk speed than fists bm. even with identic bm gear, which is not realistic and not able to play venomancer right, your mage triple spark still doesnt help you and your hp is even lower than bms. getting interval gear along with a magic sword around your lvl is even harder to aquire the dps of a fist bm and not to mention that bm's have the highest accuracy in the game and 5 chi per hit
I must have also hit a forum bug because my background is white and foreground is a light gray, making it horrendously difficult to read the text.0 -
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1. As I said, I consider a 10%-15% drop to be almost insignificant. Outdoor mobs die in 2-4 hits anyway, so 15% won't make a difference in most cases. Regular instance mobs might take 6-10 casts, at which point 10-15% means one extra cast. Bosses, if you're solo you're probably spam-healing; if you're grouped you probably busy debuffing and damage is a secondary concern.WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »if you read, it said MAGIC ATTACK, solandri pointed out its almost a 10-15% drop.
The main disadvantage I see is in pet heals. And even there, the bosses I can fight are almost all limited by my herc's hp, not how quickly I can heal. In other words, channeling equipment or a Bless scroll would help more than having more magic attack.
2. Since the arcane and heavy/arcane can both use the same weapons and rings, the only difference in their magic attack will be due entirely to their different magic stats. If those don't differ much (as is the case if you go 3.5 mag, 0.5 str, 1 vit), then there isn't going to be much difference in either magic or magic attack between the arcane and heavy/arcane.
The 10-15% difference was assuming a 4 mag, 0.5 str, 0.5 vit build. At level 90 that only works out to 540 more base hp than a heavy/arcane. If you refine the 4 armor pieces to +3, the heavy gets 184 more hp there (+122 hp vs +76 hp per piece). And a level 81 3-star helmet refined to +3 gives 339 hp vs. +67 for an arcane hat. So this vit arcane build only ends up having 84 more hp than the heavy/arcane at level 90. *
I just don't see much difference in the combat capability of the two builds, and the heavy gives a heckuva lot more flexibility. It's not for everyone, but I think the tradeoff for lower magic attack is well worth it.
*(Personally I keep my arcane gear unsharded and unrefined. So when I'm spam healing, I can ST, quickly switch to heavy, and hit Tree of Protection. That'll bring my hp from about 10% to 60% in heavy armor. But when I switch back to arcane, my max hp drops and that 60% becomes like 90%. By the time I need to ST again, that's regenerated pretty close to 100% and ST gives me a full mana bar.)0 -
ok its not human its fox for aoe bosses and taking hits and second its over 6k human with not even major cs (http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=4d24be8fd7dd1ba8). things can be improved alot more anyway with no CS at all. so you have 12k pdef, thats great but your magic defences has to be low, that doesnt work for me especially in pvp when i don have much time to switch around gear for pvp.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »8-9k? I have yet to come across a veno without major CS gear that has more than 4K when completely buffed -- human. I have 12.5K - 14.5K when buffed -- human (depending on which wristguard I use), 19.9 - 22K when in fox. Since the majority of what was being talked about (especially what I misunderstood at first) was melee fox versus magic human, that is figuring out the difference of 85% and 30-50%, and I'll let you do the math. What you run into when actually playing, instead of messing around with pwcalc, is quite variable, and I dunno why, if we're talking about melee fox dmg versus magic casting veno, you would suggest how much pdef someone has in fox for magic in comparison to fox for melee. Additionally, note the word "likening" to a fist bm, which does not mean better, nor does it mean exactly the same, it means similar to. Comprehension is key too when differentiating two things.
I must have also hit a forum bug because my background is white and foreground is a light gray, making it horrendously difficult to read the text.
yes i was talking about melee heavy fox vs caster veno. many HA venos are going melee and with -interval gear this can work decent in pve and can be compared with casters with decent -channeling gear but far from any fist bm. i didnt comment much on this since you have to clarify this for yourself what -channeling and -interval gear are doing. -interval doesnt help pyro/gush combo, interval between hits doesnt mean that at all.
anyway both builds being in human form as casters, there is no way that heavy veno can steal agro over arcane (which probably have 50-100 more mag in stats)
yes i hate this new theme too0
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