No! Bad tank! No aggro for you!

Kephras - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Okay, so has anyone run into this before? Veno + herc refuses to let you tank properly?

Here's the story - I'll keep it short. Joined a random 2-1 run, two clerics, a BM, archer, veno, and myself. Veno is 82, with herc, and basically the run starts out with the words "only need barb for wurlord." Technically true, I admit - but for various reasons I prefer - nay, insist on - doing my own tanking in dungeons.
Well, we banter-sorta-bicker about aggro & tanking for a bit, almost playfully, and make it through the hands to Fataliqua.

Veno doesn't bramble me, keeps herc on tank-mode, and we juggle him a little bit - between resetting him with Roar and a couple chi pots to counter (near constant) flesh-ream/devouring, I hold him for a good 85%-90% of his lifespan, with the herc only taking a few hits. Veno spends most of the time pet-healing, even when herc isn't under attack.

Afterwards, the veno bows out semi-gracefully, with an "I gtg", and leaves squad.
(Personal conjecture, butt-hurt for being relegated to DD, and getting a lower pick order?)
We eventually replaced her with a 78 wiz.

Now for those that care (the ones not leaving a "cool story bro"); I prefer to do my own tanking for the following:
-It's why I'm there. Let me do my job, thanks.
-A veno healing their pet near-constantly could instead be amping and DD'ing regularly, while pet does significant DD without damage reduction. Run goes faster. (Most clerics can still throw out some damage or debuff between heals)
-Barb aggro in general is more reliable, more controllable, and DD's can open up more freely.

tl;dr - this is what we're made for, since when has it become wrong to do our own jobs? And has anyone else run into a veno (or other classes) who insist on us stepping down as tank during a run?

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay, so has anyone run into this before? Veno + herc refuses to let you tank properly?

Here's the story - I'll keep it short. Joined a random 2-1 run, two clerics, a BM, archer, veno, and myself. Veno is 82, with herc, and basically the run starts out with the words "only need barb for wurlord." Technically true, I admit - but for various reasons I prefer - nay, insist on - doing my own tanking in dungeons.
Well, we banter-sorta-bicker about aggro & tanking for a bit, almost playfully, and make it through the hands to Fataliqua.

Veno doesn't bramble me, keeps herc on tank-mode, and we juggle him a little bit - between resetting him with Roar and a couple chi pots to counter (near constant) flesh-ream/devouring, I hold him for a good 85%-90% of his lifespan, with the herc only taking a few hits. Veno spends most of the time pet-healing, even when herc isn't under attack.

Afterwards, the veno bows out semi-gracefully, with an "I gtg", and leaves squad.
(Personal conjecture, butt-hurt for being relegated to DD, and getting a lower pick order?)
We eventually replaced her with a 78 wiz.

Now for those that care (the ones not leaving a "cool story bro"); I prefer to do my own tanking for the following:
-It's why I'm there. Let me do my job, thanks.
-A veno healing their pet near-constantly could instead be amping and DD'ing regularly, while pet does significant DD without damage reduction. Run goes faster. (Most clerics can still throw out some damage or debuff between heals)
-Barb aggro in general is more reliable, more controllable, and DD's can open up more freely.

tl;dr - this is what we're made for, since when has it become wrong to do our own jobs? And has anyone else run into a veno (or other classes) who insist on us stepping down as tank during a run?

1.Ignore the egoistic(or w/e) veno
2.Let her tank wurlord
3.Dont steal her aggro and slack off till wurlord
4.The veno is obviously some Cash Shopper who oracled her way up.She doesnt have bramble since she has never heard of squads.

So don't let it bother you.

edit:Just think of it as lower repair costs for you

Kephras - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Nah, she had bramble, just refused to use it on me, out of spite mostly.
There was some banter/bicker at which she claimed I "won't hold aggro long with no bramble", which I proved terribly wrong afterwards (though admittedly, bramble would've been nice)

XylolyX - Heavens Tear · February 2010

I generally don't do random squads for this reason.

However, if a veno wants to tank...let her tank, that's my opinion. Wait until it's just you and the cleric alive and grab aggro back. Then ask again politely if she'll let you tank.

muuuhaahahahahaha

Yulk - Heavens Tear · February 2010

XylolyX - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I generally don't do random squads for this reason.

However, if a veno wants to tank...let her tank, that's my opinion. Wait until it's just you and the cleric alive and grab aggro back. Then ask again politely if she'll let you tank.

muuuhaahahahahaha

I most likely don't squad randoms for real instances, they have so many ways to waste your time. I remembered a 70+ cleric acted somewhat like this veno on FB29 lol, I kept saving her xD, I should of let her die. Personally I don't mind a veno would want to tank with a herc... or even a glacial walker. Best thing to do with a veno is switch inbetween tanking. Which is the best thing for both the barb and the veno. Is do other options. So yeah, other than that, random venoes... idk i don't think I'd squad with randoms, regardless if its a cleric either I won't squad randoms for instances like this.

Ophida - Dreamweaver · February 2010

I admit I've not been paying attention and left bash on my herc on a run or 2 (and promptly taken it off when it's been pointed out to me). But I've never willfully challenged a barb for aggro. What's the point? If barb dies, herc is backup tank, but while he's alive I'll bramble, send sparks and do the rest of that **** that a veno's supposed to do.
'Fraid you got a bad egg on that run ^^;

GohRaL - Sanctuary · February 2010

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay, so has anyone run into this before? Veno + herc refuses to let you tank properly?

Here's the story - I'll keep it short. Joined a random 2-1 run, two clerics, a BM, archer, veno, and myself. Veno is 82, with herc, and basically the run starts out with the words "only need barb for wurlord." Technically true, I admit - but for various reasons I prefer - nay, insist on - doing my own tanking in dungeons.
Well, we banter-sorta-bicker about aggro & tanking for a bit, almost playfully, and make it through the hands to Fataliqua.

Veno doesn't bramble me, keeps herc on tank-mode, and we juggle him a little bit - between resetting him with Roar and a couple chi pots to counter (near constant) flesh-ream/devouring, I hold him for a good 85%-90% of his lifespan, with the herc only taking a few hits. Veno spends most of the time pet-healing, even when herc isn't under attack.

Afterwards, the veno bows out semi-gracefully, with an "I gtg", and leaves squad.
(Personal conjecture, butt-hurt for being relegated to DD, and getting a lower pick order?)
We eventually replaced her with a 78 wiz.

Now for those that care (the ones not leaving a "cool story bro"); I prefer to do my own tanking for the following:
-It's why I'm there. Let me do my job, thanks.
-A veno healing their pet near-constantly could instead be amping and DD'ing regularly, while pet does significant DD without damage reduction. Run goes faster. (Most clerics can still throw out some damage or debuff between heals)
-Barb aggro in general is more reliable, more controllable, and DD's can open up more freely.

tl;dr - this is what we're made for, since when has it become wrong to do our own jobs? And has anyone else run into a veno (or other classes) who insist on us stepping down as tank during a run?

b:angry

now tell me how the fk could i read this ?

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver · February 2010

GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:angry

now tell me how the fk could i read this ?

Highlight it :P

ZoanoAce - Lost City · February 2010

Now how do u do that :O b:shutup

Faith_z - Sanctuary · February 2010

I wouldnt be bothered by it, let veno tank for once, see how it goes, take over if herc (and veno) die, if not, saves you on your repair bill

Jakob - Harshlands · February 2010

XylolyX - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I generally don't do random squads for this reason.

However, if a veno wants to tank...let her tank, that's my opinion. Wait until it's just you and the cleric alive and grab aggro back. Then ask again politely if she'll let you tank.

muuuhaahahahahaha

^This. b:pleased

10char

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · February 2010

I usually let the veno tank, saves my repair bill.

Kephras - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Posts edited/fixed due to the [explitives deleted] who [more explitives] the forum up.

GohRaL - Sanctuary · February 2010

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Highlight it :P

i dont know if uve tried to highlight it, but the result are even worse b:spit

btw now Kephras fixed it but...if u wanted some kind of customization man ur on the wrong place atm

Kephras - Heavens Tear · February 2010

I know, I know. It's a disgrace and I dearly hope somebody loses their job over it.

Back on topic: Anyone else find a class who insisted you step aside?
And I don't mean letting a robe-user tank Mantavip, but something that really makes you go "wtf am I here for then?"

Boozer - Lost City · February 2010

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay, so has anyone run into this before? Veno + herc refuses to let you tank properly?

Here's the story - I'll keep it short. Joined a random 2-1 run, two clerics, a BM, archer, veno, and myself. Veno is 82, with herc, and basically the run starts out with the words "only need barb for wurlord." Technically true, I admit - but for various reasons I prefer - nay, insist on - doing my own tanking in dungeons.
Well, we banter-sorta-bicker about aggro & tanking for a bit, almost playfully, and make it through the hands to Fataliqua.

Veno doesn't bramble me, keeps herc on tank-mode, and we juggle him a little bit - between resetting him with Roar and a couple chi pots to counter (near constant) flesh-ream/devouring, I hold him for a good 85%-90% of his lifespan, with the herc only taking a few hits. Veno spends most of the time pet-healing, even when herc isn't under attack.

Afterwards, the veno bows out semi-gracefully, with an "I gtg", and leaves squad.
(Personal conjecture, butt-hurt for being relegated to DD, and getting a lower pick order?)
We eventually replaced her with a 78 wiz.

Now for those that care (the ones not leaving a "cool story bro"); I prefer to do my own tanking for the following:
-It's why I'm there. Let me do my job, thanks.
-A veno healing their pet near-constantly could instead be amping and DD'ing regularly, while pet does significant DD without damage reduction. Run goes faster. (Most clerics can still throw out some damage or debuff between heals)
-Barb aggro in general is more reliable, more controllable, and DD's can open up more freely.

tl;dr - this is what we're made for, since when has it become wrong to do our own jobs? And has anyone else run into a veno (or other classes) who insist on us stepping down as tank during a run?

Why would you not let the veno tank if they want to and can o.o

Its far cheaper for everyone involved.

If veno tank i save money on repairs, the cleric dont have to spam ironheart/wellspring and can DD/debuff boss instead or even redbubble which makes it far faster than if i would be tanking. And a decent veno can both tank boss and amp boss.

It does not make me less useful at all if the veno tanks 50% of the bosses. Im still in the party for for buffs, rushing party past mobs and tanking harder bosses like wulord.

I dont care what class is tanking tbh, who is best for the job/and wants to should do it. I dont mind archers, wizards or fist Bms tanking either. Sometimes their just more suited to tank certain bosses than a barb due to bosstype/skills/build and gear.

Also hercs does hold agro better than barbs in TT, thats plain fact and game mechanics, they have 200% reflect and no dmg reduction on ?-marks mobs.

I will loose agro eventually against an archer only auto shooting with like a +10 Lunar bow even if i spam agro skills and have bramble on. A herc wont unless the archer actively tries to steal agro with triple spark.

Edit: I would say i mostly encounter the opposite problem. Lazy 9X venos that refuses to tank easy bosses like Fataliqua or Doggy even tho they can do it. Instead they want me to tank and get higher repair bills - just so they can afk DD on a macro >.<

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear · March 2010

I've encountered few such venos..sum even 9x & never learned that they gota bramble Barbs & BMs when in certain squads. Once I remember I had a fight over it once with a 93 veno in a TT & she tells me "how would I know if u needed a bramble? can I read ur mind or sumthing?" b:laugh fcuking cashshopping whoracle venos & their hercs.... [Im not accusing every herc veno here]

I myself personally like to tank bosses in TTs/FBs or any other instance myself... Hate to see developers made a cashshop pet only to make huge bucks while creating an imbalance among classes...Im not a total veno-hater..but dont either like venos SOLOING Squad Mode TTsb:angry

Seamuss - Heavens Tear · March 2010

In alot of posts it is made fun of to hear barb say "Am I tanking?". Yet I have been challenged by higher lvl BM's and Herc venos. I really dont care most of the time,but I do want to know who expects to do the job.

Making a tanker spec barb(not yet demon) resort to DD is not really the smoothest move,but if I'm outlvled then I guess its ok.

I have noticed some BM's and venos do have a certain point to prove or have issues with barbs,until its a boss that needs one. I know each class has ppl that give it a bad name (inc barb). If you want to tank because it makes you feel awesome,go ahead,I understand..thats why I rolled one :P

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · March 2010

I perfer to let the herc tank most bosses unless if it's one that the herc can't tank. It's kinda relaxing to know that you don't have to completely pay attention to whats going on and can relax a bit.

jaeseu · March 2010

IMO, if it's something that I know for a fact that I can tank (with Herc), I'll ask if I should tank, to save the barb on repair bills and such. Otherwise, if the barb wants to play tank, then by all means, I won't stop him (or her). I usually hold my pet back for about 10%, even with bash off. =| Drives me nuts when people complain though when I don't throw him in at start...but that's a different story, lol.

Anyway, if I were you and ever partied with people like that, I'd either a) kick them out or b) leave squad and find something better.

Pandarenn - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Personally i specked into so much vit that my damage fails and i refined and added citrines so i need to tank...if i dont im pretty much worth nothing at all to the squad.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · March 2010

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay, so has anyone run into this before? Veno + herc refuses to let you tank properly?

Here's the story - I'll keep it short. Joined a random 2-1 run, two clerics, a BM, archer, veno, and myself. Veno is 82, with herc, and basically the run starts out with the words "only need barb for wurlord." Technically true, I admit - but for various reasons I prefer - nay, insist on - doing my own tanking in dungeons.
Well, we banter-sorta-bicker about aggro & tanking for a bit, almost playfully, and make it through the hands to Fataliqua.

Veno doesn't bramble me, keeps herc on tank-mode, and we juggle him a little bit - between resetting him with Roar and a couple chi pots to counter (near constant) flesh-ream/devouring, I hold him for a good 85%-90% of his lifespan, with the herc only taking a few hits. Veno spends most of the time pet-healing, even when herc isn't under attack.

Afterwards, the veno bows out semi-gracefully, with an "I gtg", and leaves squad.
(Personal conjecture, butt-hurt for being relegated to DD, and getting a lower pick order?)
We eventually replaced her with a 78 wiz.

Now for those that care (the ones not leaving a "cool story bro"); I prefer to do my own tanking for the following:
-It's why I'm there. Let me do my job, thanks.
-A veno healing their pet near-constantly could instead be amping and DD'ing regularly, while pet does significant DD without damage reduction. Run goes faster. (Most clerics can still throw out some damage or debuff between heals)
-Barb aggro in general is more reliable, more controllable, and DD's can open up more freely.

tl;dr - this is what we're made for, since when has it become wrong to do our own jobs? And has anyone else run into a veno (or other classes) who insist on us stepping down as tank during a run?

Stop right from the beginning. They said from the start that they only need you to tank on Wurlord. If this is not your thing and you want to tank the entire instance, tell them either you tank it all or you go. Simple as that. You joined a squad where they made these the requirement, so continuing along and getting butt-hurt over a tanking herc veno really made this bad experience your own fault. You will get used to instances, especially in 3-1, where if a herc veno is present, they will likely prefer to tank. This is why if you are running with a squad you normally don't run with, who doesn't know your tendencies or personality, you assert what it is you're there to do, particularly if a herc veno is present, and if they are not on the same page or willing to cooperate, find another squad that will. Don't bother messing around with squads like these. If it were my barb there in a TT I'd be there to tank too, not DD. This is also why it's good to just go with friends so you don't have to worry so much about roles -- where you can be a DD on certain bosses while a herc veno tanks, save repairs, and still get what you need.

Alphae - Lost City · March 2010

She was better off where she went :x

I in general agree with you; venos can be much more useful doing other things.... provided the veno knows what s/he's doing. "whats amp???" >< However as far as tanking [?] bosses, herc that can tank will hold aggro just as well as a barb, obviously not if you spam your aggro skills but there it is.

Fact remains is that you wanted to tank, that's fine, tank. I'd rather see that then a barb that leeroy jenkins everything and then complains "I got a lot of HP but I don't have to tank everythin" me: "looks like you got it handled pretty well there, wasn't aware you needed/wanted help"... Sometimes you can't win, barb wants you to tank, but if you ask to tank they laugh in your face <_< Just basically takes a veno who knows what they're doing. But of course that is a scare commodity. /rant

Lycanthar - Sanctuary · March 2010

The OP is a n00b and the veno noticed. /thread

melodux · March 2010

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Stop right from the beginning. They said from the start that they only need you to tank on Wurlord. If this is not your thing and you want to tank the entire instance, tell them either you tank it all or you go. Simple as that. You joined a squad where they made these the requirement, so continuing along and getting butt-hurt over a tanking herc veno really made this bad experience your own fault. You will get used to instances, especially in 3-1, where if a herc veno is present, they will likely prefer to tank. This is why if you are running with a squad you normally don't run with, who doesn't know your tendencies or personality, you assert what it is you're there to do, particularly if a herc veno is present, and if they are not on the same page or willing to cooperate, find another squad that will. Don't bother messing around with squads like these. If it were my barb there in a TT I'd be there to tank too, not DD. This is also why it's good to just go with friends so you don't have to worry so much about roles -- where you can be a DD on certain bosses while a herc veno tanks, save repairs, and still get what you need.

this...end of story.

Stressedout - Dreamweaver · March 2010

You know on a funny note: I recently ran a BH playing my veno alt where the barb insisted on pulling :P Likely due to bad experiences with prior p/u groups. I double checked to make sure he realized I was a veno and could pull for free instead of him using genie, but that's what he wanted to do, so I played along

As far as people wanting to be the tank... I've run into that problem numerous times in groups. Mostly with BM's that feel they having something to prove by trying to steal aggro. TBH, I often take the same approach you did: prove there is a reason why barbs are meant to tank, and **** on those who don't like it

In all honesty, it would be smarter to let those who insist on being idiots fail on their own and learn the hard way. But then again, aren't barbarians suppossed to be stubborn by nature anyway ?

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver · March 2010

first of veno myself, yeah i don't know why my picture didn't change when i asked it to anyways back to topic.

When i join a squad i'd always let the one who can deal with holding the agro AND survive, do the tanking. (no im not a herc veno, i only use wolfs xD) In this case the Veno could probably have kept the agro if u had wanted to let her =P. Some pros and cons i can c in the two situations, if they had been played with teamwork ^^.

Veno tank:
Pros:
Less cost on repair, and maybe also mana pots. d(^.^)

Cons:
Without a 2nd veno it will be alot slower =( amp sob.
For the barb he would maybe get lower ranked in the drop order.
(personally i would find it unfair, if veno tank got first drop if not highest lvl, explain below)

Barb Tank:
Pros:
YES amp sweet amp.
Barb (and cler) would maybe get higher rank drop order.

Cons:
Higher cost, prolly both for cler and tank.

And my statement above with the "veno shouldn't get tank rank (1st or 2nd drop) just cuz she tank. Unless they want to waste mana (then i can't feel sorry for them) they can simply do a swarp of mana and hp => low hp and high mp again. Then a few heals from cler, who DD, and hp is ready for nxt swarp. (U wouldn't want to do this in aoe range of a boss xD obviously)
This would place ppl like this

All DDs (at least i wouldn't claim tank spot as a tank veno)
Cler don't have to heal spm = DD
Barb don't get the HUGE repair cost = DD
Veno still only get a okay big weapon repair cost = DD
all the usual classes = DD
=> lvl order? yeah ... bit sad so if enough drops should swarp the rank on 2nd round, so i think.
besides when on a DD role, a class like Wiz got a really bad mana cost seriously. Archers can for some heal their mp better. Cler will also have quite some mana waste on their attacks. Also barb and BM will fast run out IF they skill but they don't have to. Archer also don't HAVE to. Veno got somewhat mana cost but prolly the lowest if BM/Archer/Barb insist on spam skilling (sorta their own fault). and then u got the venos who insist on being charmed (or at that time is due to charm needed activity) so yeah. All would be even with veno tank in my head, order was made cuz of the costs xD.

Besides that, sad u lost a amp, but well u win d(^.^)

No! Bad tank! No aggro for you!

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