HELP!!! BARB vs SAGE

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=608692

both are good and sage won't lose agro because ur dmg in tiger is not really half... just check for your self...beside bramble does the trick... demon is cool for bko+perdition combo that is with out a doubt awesome.. remember how fun was sage barbar in gv at 99 using perdition on cd because charm never jump:D
last and not least sage get chi skill -very cool-50chi for every 60 sec while demon gets bolex-burn 50 chi in enemy... but any sage or demon get genie skill could eruption-on a good genie is like 200 chi almostb:victory

Pandarenn - Dreamweaver wrote: »

SAGE vs DEMON*

I seriously have no idea what im gona need to go. Im scared that if i go sage i wont have enough dmg to keep agro otherwise i like that build. If i go demon im not sure that ill have all the HP/P.def to be an EPIC tank like idd like to be. Idd also like to know what all the upps and down of both are...if you could post those or point me to a thread that has them ALL.

IF any1 can help plz reply...Thanxb:thanks

A good idea that I've seen work for a number of people (regardless of class) is go down each skill. Make a checklist of which skill you like better in sage or demon version. Count the checks at the end, and there you go. That's just one easy way of doing it.

Personally, I pick a few skills I like the most, how they affect my game play, and decide which version I like better.

Pandarenn - Dreamweaver wrote: »

SAGE vs DEMON*

I seriously have no idea what im gona need to go. Im scared that if i go sage i wont have enough dmg to keep agro otherwise i like that build. If i go demon im not sure that ill have all the HP/P.def to be an EPIC tank like idd like to be. Idd also like to know what all the upps and down of both are...if you could post those or point me to a thread that has them ALL.

IF any1 can help plz reply...Thanxb:thanks

if u like to be the best tank (highest hp) well then go sage and dont worry for dmg since sage has good add too...

btw a tank is more than just HP



choose what u like more, i like demon =P

again...SEE HERE: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=608692

let thread die please.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm more interested in something slightly more analytical though from barbs who are both sage and demon with similar equips, like what the actual damage difference is that they do in tiger. I compared attack stats on a character build via pwcalc between sage and demon and the difference statwise wasn't very significant, but how it actually works in the game is perhaps another story.

The difference is almost negligible when you consider that sage axe and hammer mastery gives +100% weapon damage vs demon's +75%. The damage reduction is also calculated after the strength buff as well, so both sage and demon have the full benefit of the buff in tiger form. Also, it's only a reduction of weapon damage and as such does not affect damage granted via strength points etc. Your analysis on pwcalc is probably very accurate.
The extra HP for sage barbs in tiger form, however, is quite significant (assuming you're vit build)!

Lycanthar - Sanctuary wrote: »

3. The difference between sage/demon tiger form damage is NOT negligable. Tiger form sages do **** damage - demon's do full (i.e. normal) damage. Not exactly analytical but the point is a sage tiger isn't going to hurt anything.

Sorry, but it is, and for the reasons I stated above (it's a reduction in weapon damage NOT total damage aka p.attack). And I have actually tested this along side a level 98 demon barb (I'm sage) with the same refinement and shards on their axes and actually with 10 more str than my char. They had demon axe and hammer mastery, I have sage. They had demon true form, I had sage. We even had the exact same gear equipped apart from ornaments where mine are vit oriented and his were accuracy.

Average extra damage for the demon was about 250 PvE (about 4.5% more damage) . If you don't believe it.. go to one of the private servers, make 2 barbs and try it yourself. (Not that I would ever dream of endorsing private servers) Or at least use one of the many stats calculators that are out there.

Without doubt, I'd go demon if I wanted to PvP because of most of the other skills, but the lack of weapon damage reduction in tiger form is not one of the things that would lean me toward going demon!

Edit: If your axes are very highly refined (i.e. over +9 or so) then the difference will be more prominent as a higher proportion of your damage is coming from your weapon. We did our testing with +6 axes

On the ball, apart from the pdef difference, sage barbs get an extra 40% p.def from equipment (Yeah, in real terms this isn't actually 40% more because of all the other p.def modifying buffs and vit etc, but it's much more than 1% difference) assuming both barbs have level 11 shapeshifting intensity. Note there is no difference in human form.

Demon tiger would also have 4-9% more crit, sans sunder. Oh and a little more wood damage from poison fang. I have heard it explained like this before- sage adds good constant increases and benefits, demon is like gambling, a chance for huge spikes amongst mostly fair increases.

The great thing about these threads is that there never is a definitive answer, because sage and demon aren't really all that different, and are very well balanced. So pick whatever tickles your fancy because you cant go wrong, unlike some of the other classes. Well, unless you really want to pull cata in TW, then you should really should go sage, no real argument there i believe.

Oh, and I went demon because i could get skills cheaper (=more skills) in my sage-heavy care-bear server. If you don't HAVE sage/demon skills, then there really is almost no difference between the two. b:chuckle

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Personally I go sage on barb for these reasons

Free and easy chi
less chi to spend on arggo skills for tiger
magic dmg debuff which is rare
Never missing beastial onslaught, allowing to be more accurate with attacks
More HP and speed in tiger form
Devour become easier to spam
Much better survivability
MP recovery I would spam MP powders less this way b:thanks
More constant damage


ALSO NO MORE THREADS ABOUT THIS PLEASE

Quote, fine, print!b:laughb:laugh

PS: corrected your typo ^^

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I just got owned by a typo lol. I should type slower than trying to race with typing. b:laugh thx...

Anytime lol b:chuckleb:victory

Edit: Stupid multiquote lol :P

Pandarenn - Dreamweaver wrote: »

SAGE vs DEMON*

I seriously have no idea what im gona need to go. Im scared that if i go sage i wont have enough dmg to keep agro otherwise i like that build. If i go demon im not sure that ill have all the HP/P.def to be an EPIC tank like idd like to be. Idd also like to know what all the upps and down of both are...if you could post those or point me to a thread that has them ALL.

IF any1 can help plz reply...Thanxb:thanks

Majority of barbs, bms and archers go demon for a reason b:surrender.

Sage is rather outdated, specially since the game introduced genies which offered everyone the defensive/chi benefits sage classes gets but not the one demon gets like crit and attack speed.

In case of barb, sage/demon are equally good for pve. Sage with the extra hp and def in tiger is obviously better for tanking really hard and challenging bosses and pulling cata in TW. But i dont know a single boss in this game you actually need a sage barb for. For "casual tanking" like fbs and TT and such its pretty equal and more based on gear than cultivation.

The issue is demon being superior for pvp (and equally good for pve) while many sage barbs that actively wants to pvp tends to quit at higher lvl after regretting going sage.

b:victory i also play a lvl88 barb as well and going sage on him too just check etacomb in a search on the web itll take u to a fan site the shows all the different skills and what they do and i prefer sage cause being a str/vit build when i get end game gear and good refines like some barbs on the LC server ull have 30k + hp in tiger form ill say that again for u (30k + hp) this means unless they have a full squad for u ur basically gonna pwn anyone 1vs1 and the perdition takes only 35% of hp instead of half anynmore and remember that move is based on how much hp u have and mp u have another good reason for sage on my build str/vit b:surrender only 50 dex means mobbing 2 mistys all the time to b able to pvp against bms at the moment and sage beasitial onsaulaught never misses yea it increases channeling time sure but only to .7 of a second wich ull never notices i mean cmon with any game the .7 of a second is the amount of time ur brain took to send the signal to ur finger to push the key to do the move but decide for urslef but if u do go demon get true form right off the bat and shape shifting intensify as soon as possible as well and plan on staying in tiger form the rest the time u play but etacomb.com has an in depth page on how the skills sage/demon work b:bye

Boozer - Lost City wrote: »

Actually harpy has been killed on several PW servers using a demon tank b:surrender

All tho if the tank was sage it would obviously have been done easier since more def and hp in tiger ^^

In the end it really comes down to gear and refines over cultivation. A demon barb can have same or even more hp than sage in tiger, it just costs more monies.

I guess if you really only want massive hp in tiger and be hard to kill, sage is of course a better choice than demon since its easier and cheaper to achieve it.

A sage barb can on the other hand never get the ridiculous amount if crit that demon gets tho.

Sage has far better party buffs tho b:victory

well...wasnt really unthinkable, i saw demon with 28k HP so is just a matter of money spent...






for the party buff i can uderstand those 10% more of titans, but BKI is just duration...

i see that you wont be always stick together with the squad member but 30minutes are really a lot IMO...