Confused about skill spamming/normal attacks

Posts: 830 Arc User
edited March 2010 in Assassin
Ok this thread will cover some end game related content as well, please don't call me a noob because of my level, yes it is true this is my first char and I do not have a higher level one but also that I read a lot of stuff, guides, tips, you name it... I usually want to know most important stuff before I end up **** something up. So here we go...

I can honestly say I am a bit confused. Both from reading a lot of stuff from here scattered in many different threads, and from my experiences in game so far.

First of all I read many stuff like: Demon overall superior to Sage because of faster normal hits, Demon is more for PvP than Sage, Chill of the Deep (CoD from now) is EPIC in PvP but on the other hand contradicts the demon things previously mentioned doesn't it?

(note this thread isn't only about Demon/Sage choice in advance, although I would like to base my leveling up around that decision too... since a demon would use more normal attacks and fewer skills compared to Sage)


Then also I see people saying grinding with Rib Strike + normal hits is better than skill spamming and you take less damage and use less pots... Well from my experience so far I can tell you the target dies faster with Rib Strike + Puncture Wound + Slipstream Strike than with normal hits... and I take less damage. But it's still a hell, I use a pot every 2 mobs or even more often if mob is powered (like "Increased Defense", "Increased Attack" etc)

Grinding is a bit of a hell for me (talking amount of HP pots used), most mobs my level hit me for a lot of damage, so I was shocked when people said they have it very easy without pots. I don't use Life Powders or any HP regen stuff, only pots. And I can say, if I spam skills, I use less pots because target dies faster, than if I use normal attacks. At least HP pots ofc. And bloodpaint does not help me enough by far contrary to what people here say. Again, using normal hits is worse for me than spamming skills >.< And I didn't upgrade Bloodpaint, because it only affects duration? Or should I, and the description is wrong but it also gives more HP per hit when upgraded?

Note I don't have any exceptional gear for my level yet, no -interval gear, I dunno if those who were saying grinding isn't hell had -int gears or not...


My point of this thread is to ask, what kind of 'build' is more efficient. Not just for grinding, but also for end game PvP (TWs included) and PvE. Of course I expect reasonable and detailed answers because both sides have pros and cons. And the forums confuse me even more... one day I read CoD is EPIC skill, another day.. normal attacks and Demon are far superior to skill spamming... one day I read sins are extreme **** at grinding and using lots of resources (pots, apothecary items, etc) - which is also my experience - another I read it's easier to grind with a sin than with a BM... thing which in the other thread I read BMs have it way easier killing mobs -.-


I was interested in aiming for a skill-spamming-build (maybe Sage, not sure ofc) with CoD to help. You can spam Puncture, Slipstream, Rib Strike and just need one more which doesn't have to be Twin Strike, better a +chi skill instead. So I was interested in this build but now today I read it's kinda meh and most people go for normal attack spamming, even at grinding. Which I don't understand. From my experiences, again, I have it better HP wise (maybe not mana) by spamming skills instead of only Rib Strike and normal hits.

I don't have any -int gear, no life powders and no genie to heal me. But I'm also asking for the end game content, when I'll get -int gear probably. Will CoD still be worth it or totally trash at that point and Demon for even faster attacks all the way? I'm confused and I don't want to end up a useless sin people avoid in parties or PvP parties (TW factions and such) because of the way I chose to go. b:surrender


Don't get me wrong I know many would say it depends on play style, and to be honest, my play style would be to spam skills instead of normal attacks (with CoD up to help ofc), but I also don't want to be handicapped or weaker than others and being looked down upon. So if both styles of playing are comparable in power (averaged PvP and PvE) I would go for skill spamming... if being a demon with -int gears and normal attacks is much much better than I may go for it instead of the way I like to play.


Thanks for reading and hope I get my mind clarified before I **** something and regret it later b:shocked
First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
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Post edited by Asheera - Raging Tide on

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Comments

  • Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    with no interval gear it's better to use CoD and skill spam. this costs alot of MP however so most will still just rib strike + normal attack to save MP and still kill the mob decently quick + minimize damage you take.

    with about -.15 interval skills become obsolete DPS-wise. at this point skills are used for their effects (rib strike to slow target, deep sting for sleep, headhunt to stun etc.)

    in PvP it's rare your target will sit still so CoD + Skill Spam is still needed

    you can, however, start from stealth, double-spark, rib_strike + occult ice and wing away (works best with interval gear)

    Demon/Sage skills cant be talked upon yet because they haven't been released for sins yet


    Typically people say go Demon because demon spark gives -.25 interval. This combined with every interval gear piece you can get as a sin will let you reach 5 attacks/sec. this is godly in pve and pvp.

    for sins intending to use CoD though Sage may be better. again, this cant really be debated until the skills are released
  • Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    If you don't mind putting out the money for MP pots, then skill spamming is the way to go. However, I find that with just Life Powder and Blood Paint, I can easily grind without ever using any pots at all. All I do is occasionally use Second Wind if my hp gets dangerously low, and other than that I just spam sparks.

    It also helps if you are very selective on what you grind. Mobs that will use DoT magic attacks and mp drain are your friends. Many times, I will find they hit me once or twice with the DoT attack, then the rest are mostly just mp drain attempts. I don't even need to use skills, cause I just chase them down and attack them, they eventually stop running.

    There are many ways you can have a very easy time grinding with very little expenses. All you have to do is search them out. By using this method, the only MP I ever use is just for Blood Paint, and all armor/weapons I get are decomposed to make my Genie her chi stones covering stamina use. It is very easy to make money this way, and has very little cost to it. As such, Assassins have a much easier time grinding than all except Venomancers.

    Just be smart about how you grind, and you will have no troubles at all.
  • Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Learn 2nd lvl of Apochatry for being able to create MP regeneration powder it will solve your mp problem and will allow to spam skills for 10 mins almost non-stop.
    If person says that Rib-strike+normal attacks way to go he is either:
    A. Heavy charm user
    B. Has insane gear(aka refine at least+4/5, legend rings,interval gear) in order to take down equal/even 3 levels lower mob with just normal attacks
    C. Oracle noob who reached lvl 90+ just in few days and never normaly played his char till then.

    I found that most satisfiying combo to finish any mob equal or +2 levels above you is:
    BloodPaint(lvl1-2 since leveling skill affects only time)+CoD(lvl 1-2 more than enough) before chain:
    Deep Sting(lvl 1 enough this one for effect only, almost 100% cancels any hostile action despite the description of success rate only 86/7%, very good opener vs annoying DoTers,casters)-->RibStrike-->Puncture Wound-->SleepStream

    As well i found usage of Life Powder less effective than lvl 2 mp regen powder since combo allows you to kill fast enough and if your build dodge oriented(has doubt in it) mob most time even not touches you.

    Small warning when you fight Barren Pythons(or any bramble user) their bramble will cause you instant death if you macro chain and won't pay attention.
    b:bye
  • Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    yep apoth skills give sins a big boost. most people that complane abought them simply do not use apoth, life and focus powders remove any need for heavy use of pots. you may need to pop one in a emergency buy for the most part pots are unneeded. i found skills to be more effective with that setup. puncher wound ribstrike and slipsteam bring a mob to near death or dead if any crit witch they do often.
  • Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    wnight wrote: »
    Learn 2nd lvl of Apochatry for being able to create MP regeneration powder it will solve your mp problem and will allow to spam skills for 10 mins almost non-stop.
    If person says that Rib-strike+normal attacks way to go he is either:
    A. Heavy charm user
    B. Has insane gear(aka refine at least+4/5, legend rings,interval gear) in order to take down equal/even 3 levels lower mob with just normal attacks
    C. Oracle noob who reached lvl 90+ just in few days and never normaly played his char till then.

    I use rib strike--> normal, and I'm not any of those things. Hell, I don't even use life powders. My gear is probably better than most, but I only have 2 peices refined- and those only to +1.
    Full power to the Vagiroscope!
  • Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    wnight wrote: »
    Learn 2nd lvl of Apochatry for being able to create MP regeneration powder it will solve your mp problem and will allow to spam skills for 10 mins almost non-stop.
    If person says that Rib-strike+normal attacks way to go he is either:
    A. Heavy charm user
    B. Has insane gear(aka refine at least+4/5, legend rings,interval gear) in order to take down equal/even 3 levels lower mob with just normal attacks
    C. Oracle noob who reached lvl 90+ just in few days and never normaly played his char till then.

    I found that most satisfiying combo to finish any mob equal or +2 levels above you is:
    BloodPaint(lvl1-2 since leveling skill affects only time)+CoD(lvl 1-2 more than enough) before chain:
    Deep Sting(lvl 1 enough this one for effect only, almost 100% cancels any hostile action despite the description of success rate only 86/7%, very good opener vs annoying DoTers,casters)-->RibStrike-->Puncture Wound-->SleepStream

    As well i found usage of Life Powder less effective than lvl 2 mp regen powder since combo allows you to kill fast enough and if your build dodge oriented(has doubt in it) mob most time even not touches you.

    Small warning when you fight Barren Pythons(or any bramble user) their bramble will cause you instant death if you macro chain and won't pay attention.
    b:bye

    pre 60 i still had 0 problem leveling with just rib strike and normal attacks. pure dex build. with +1 +2 daggers using just the HP pots i picked off the ground and the 100 level 30 ones you get from supply stash. post 60 i dont even rib strike but i now have interval gear.

    i dont use HP charms. My 60 gear is refined to +3, daggers still +2 (need new ones still got the 56)

    maybe you're one of those people who decided vit was a good idea b:puzzled


    good note about the pythons too. killed myself twice on them before i figured that one out myself back then b:angry


    OP:

    CoD is situational use even after you get interval gear. CoD, Double spark, Headhunt will likely kill any robe user you find. if it crits it will easily.
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Just learn inner harmony and rising dragon strike, use them to build chi and use doble spark in every mob and kill it with normal hits only, bloodpaint will heal almost 100 HP on crits, and the spark heals you an % of healt. Also get an str genie and learn second wind, gather nectar and golden herbs and make lots of life powders. With all this you should have no problems at PVE and grinding
  • Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Honestly it's good that you are looking so far ahead into your class. But the phase that you're going through right now is the nasty nitty gritty part that all sins have to go through. It's the part where you can't really grind without having to use a HP Charm or Pots. So like everyone is saying level up Apoc. skill and make pots. Also with the whole Sage/Demon skill... well lets face it... one thing that is going to make us Sins who we are is the fact that were going to swing fast and honestly if i look at me using my skills v.s me ticking the mob? Ticking wins. Now i have -.2 interval so not all sins will have that. So I guess to each there own? Personally every sin i know uses Bloodpaint ! I mean casting a 3 second spell wont hurt but there is no need to upgrade more then 2 or 3 times. Basically to sum it all up keep reading into the job but, don't forget to enjoy it. Once you hit the 70's you start to see how strong the job can be. b:shocked
  • Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Thanks all for the replies :)


    Yes I remember those Barren Pythons LOL killed myself once and almost killed 3 times doing that quest later, but was more careful to notice their buff :D

    I used the level 3 apoc regeneration powder once, yes I agree was awesome, had no problems with mana at all even spamming skills, and with HP I only had problems when there was an 'upgraded' mob with "Increased Defense/Attack/Life" or when 2 jumped on me. I'd like to use this more but unfortunately it uses a bit of mats to make...

    Refined Gear... I don't have. Although I did put shards in all sockets I have on my items (and still only below "Average" shards... those start to cost a bit) I did not consider it is a good idea to use my mirage celestones yet. Maybe now when I'll get some very awesome stuff like TT daggers, I think I'll refine a bit.

    About Double Spark, I don't have level 59 culti yet... actually am on the last step, fb59. Hope I'll do it soon. And yes I saw it recovers 20% of my HP, that would be awesome and help with grinding a lot.

    Talking about Sparks, and totally unrelated to this topic (sorry about this...) but why is it that it seems to me that the spark I have atm doesn't give me invincibility at all? Is it a bug or it only starts from double spark? My current one still says it gives me invincibility for 1 second, yet I think I didn't see any effect when I tested, I still got hit. My test could have been fail though.
    First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
    Quit.
  • Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    powders are not pots. they gave you a big Regen boost. +12 in combat +50 standing and +100 meditating. they last for 10 minutes. and thers level 5 and 6 ones apoth that give even a larger boost but of course are harder to make and need level 60 to work. but the level 1 and 2 sets work very will on a sin. and yes when you can dubble spark and hit rell relly hard blood paint gives a good amount of hp back, but its befor that point a sin can be a pot eating expense and hard to level. the mats for life powders are just level 1 mats very easily gotten and all it takes is your time not your coin or gold and you can handel buffed mobs no problem even several at once. another good thing to do is making a healing genie in case you do get low in hp and need a quick boost.

    you can use this interactive map to get cords on mat locations so there easily found. http://pwmap.ru/pwi/
  • Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I got my new culti today and I can only say WOW

    Indeed double spark makes a huge boost. It's almost like I was playing before WITH the level 3 powder... I think if I'd use powder now with this I wouldn't even use pots at all anymore lol, unless more than one jumps on me or some Sacrificial Assault mob decides to hit me a lot

    ty for the map will be really helpful in the future :D
    First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
    Quit.
  • Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I wonder if I am playing the same game as everyone else. I am hearing everyone say they are having such trouble, but I don't. I use Life Powder, Blood Paint, and I use double spark only when I get it from normal attacks. All it takes is just using these and you won't have any trouble. You don't need to get charms, you don't need to get focus powder, you can actually neglect your skills and level only what you need. I am really starting to wonder if people are just using the wrong build, but I can't imagine that just doing a hybrid build would create such a difference to make me not need skills at all.
    wnight wrote: »
    If person says that Rib-strike+normal attacks way to go he is either:
    A. Heavy charm user
    B. Has insane gear(aka refine at least+4/5, legend rings,interval gear) in order to take down equal/even 3 levels lower mob with just normal attacks
    C. Oracle noob who reached lvl 90+ just in few days and never normaly played his char till then.

    I'm not even one of these. I never use charms. The only gear I have refined is my TT60 daggers to +2, and other than that I just have 3* armors. I definitely am not an oracle noob. They don't even apply to me and I don't even use Rib Strike.

    Perhaps everyone here who is having trouble just isn't using a genie with Second Wind?

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