Can you get 5 attack p/s with a BM

/Krue - Heavens Tear29
/Krue - Heavens Tear29 Posts: 4 Arc User
edited March 2010 in Blademaster
Can you get 5 attack p/s with a BM? If you can then show or explain how.
Post edited by /Krue - Heavens Tear29 on
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  • threepointone
    threepointone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    /Krue - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Can you get 5 attack p/s with a BM? If you can then show explain how.

    Fists and hell spark
  • /Krue - Heavens Tear29
    /Krue - Heavens Tear29 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    threepointone wrote: »
    Fists and hell spark

    That wouldn't be all you need to get 5 attacks per second.

    What other equips and ect.
  • threepointone
    threepointone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    /Krue - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That wouldn't be all you need to get 5 attacks per second.

    What other equips and ect.

    -Interval equips.
    i.e. -Int Fists
    i.e. -Int wrists
  • /Krue - Heavens Tear29
    /Krue - Heavens Tear29 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    threepointone wrote: »
    -Interval equips.
    i.e. -Int Fists
    i.e. -Int wrists

    You see, I already know this.

    I'm asking for details.

    So far the only attack speed i can get is -3.33 demon sparked.
  • /Krue - Heavens Tear29
    /Krue - Heavens Tear29 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    or posting a picture of some one who has 5atk p/s would be cool too.
  • threepointone
    threepointone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    /Krue - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    or posting a picture of some one who has 5atk p/s would be cool too.

    Use search, there is an SS of HeadTrauma from Harshlands with 5 attacks per second.
  • Etaerc - Lost City
    Etaerc - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hell spark is +25% attack speed. you can get 5m/s with demon cyclone heel.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zerhee - Lost City
    Zerhee - Lost City Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yes it is possible:
    CV Claws/HH100
    Lunar Cape
    Tome
    HH99 Wrists+another piece

    This is already 2.86/4.00, add in 2 LA 99 ornaments or nirvana legs and you should hit 5.00 sparked (correct me if i'm wrong).

    However if your question was if it's possible to get 5.00 non sparked, no, atm that's not possible afaik.

    I currently have 4.00 sparked, hopefully getting nirvana legs by next month or so.
    Far Beyond Driven
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • /Krue - Heavens Tear30
    /Krue - Heavens Tear30 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes it is possible:
    CV Claws/HH100
    Lunar Cape
    Tome
    HH99 Wrists+another piece

    This is already 2.86/4.00, add in 2 LA 99 ornaments or nirvana legs and you should hit 5.00 sparked (correct me if i'm wrong).

    However if your question was if it's possible to get 5.00 non sparked, no, atm that's not possible afaik.

    I currently have 4.00 sparked, hopefully getting nirvana legs by next month or so.

    ty for the full explanation. b:dirty
  • Etaerc - Lost City
    Etaerc - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »
    However if your question was if it's possible to get 5.00 non sparked, no, atm that's not possible afaik.
    Sure it is, currently you can get 5.0 with demon cyclone heel.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Pervs - Lost City
    Pervs - Lost City Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »
    Sure it is, currently you can get 5.0 with demon cyclone heel.

    Hell Fury dosent stack with Cyclone Hell you stupid boy.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Etaerc - Lost City
    Etaerc - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Pervs - Lost City wrote: »
    Hell Fury dosent stack with Cyclone Hell you stupid boy.

    wot? zerhee said he doesn't think you can get 5.0 attack speed non sparked. i said you can with demon heel... aka non sparked. comprehension is key if you wanna trash talk.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary
    RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary Posts: 212 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hmmm im just wondering, you say you have 4 sparked...and your base is 2.86. How much chi do you get in the span of one spark erupt?...like exactly, because ive been guessing the figures shown on the char sheet are improperly rounded to the nearest -.05 step, but is not what your actually attacking at. Basically if u end up with 3 new sparks after you do the eruption its 4 attacks...if its around 260-270 chi gained its the actual mathematical figure which is less than 4. I dont have high enough minus interval to experiment with this myself accurately because the difference in the attack speeds is not large enough to draw a conclusive result, hence why im asking.
  • Zerhee - Lost City
    Zerhee - Lost City Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »
    hell spark is +25% attack speed. you can get 5m/s with demon cyclone heel.
    Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »
    wot? zerhee said he doesn't think you can get 5.0 attack speed non sparked. i said you can with demon heel... aka non sparked. comprehension is key if you wanna trash talk.

    I beg your pardon, i totally meant normal unbuffed speed. b:surrender

    (I believe you can reach 5.00 with hell heel with both nirvana pants and LA ornaments)
    Far Beyond Driven
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »
    I beg your pardon, i totally meant normal unbuffed speed. b:surrender

    (I believe you can reach 5.00 with hell heel with both nirvana pants and LA ornaments)

    correct, highest completely unbuffed attack speed a warrior can achieve is 4.00 besides some weapon with -0.15. cyclone heel lasts for 15 seconds and has a cooldown of 15 seconds. you only have to spend 0.2 seconds to get the attack speed so really you can consider it almost a part of your attack speed.
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »
    I beg your pardon, i totally meant normal unbuffed speed. b:surrender

    (I believe you can reach 5.00 with hell heel with both nirvana pants and LA ornaments)

    Even non-celestial lvl heel does that, all that is needed is a speed boost of 10% or better with base 4 APS.

    EDIT: Jut noticed
    Devoted - Lost City wrote: »
    correct, highest completely unbuffed attack speed a warrior can achieve is 4.00 besides some weapon with -0.15. cyclone heel lasts for 15 seconds and has a cooldown of 15 seconds. you only have to spend 0.2 seconds to get the attack speed so really you can consider it almost a part of your attack speed.

    Damage takes .2 secs to hit, there is still the cast time of 1.8 secs that makes total time last 2 seconds, more if the aftercast cancel trick isn't pressed at the right time. So after 8 secs of attack, it will finally have dealt more damage than if it wasn't used at 4 base APS.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    but sage version has like 5 seconds more on buff time
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    but sage version has like 5 seconds more on buff time

    Sage and demon trade places back and forth for which skill is superior, depending on your existing -interval from gear. At times demon gives an extra -.05, making it better. Then when interval boost is even, sage is better for the longer duration.

    Either way, both end up trumped by WindShield spam at .35 interval and below.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    thanks, i was just asking. my main isnt a bm but im interested in this.

    now let me get this clear, in order to get 5atk/sec you need to have 4 atk/sec and you gain 25% with demon spark. 2 pieces of lionheart, 2x ashura, tome, cape and fists/claws (http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ee23937e1f7a63d2) that is 0.7 (bese 1.43) - 0.05(2xlionheart) - 0.05(2xashura) - 0.05(tome) - 0.05(cape) -0.1 (wristguards) -0.1 (deicide/tt100) = 0.3 that means 3.33 atk/sec. in order to get 4 atk / sec you still need -0.05 from somewhere so is that from cyclone heel (0.2+1.8 sec to use it) or is there something else?

    as sage you still get 4 atk per second with cyclone, right? that means 5 seconds to gain 1 spark or 15 seconds to gain 3 sparks so with perfect timing you can spark every 15 seconds. well, if you like to solo bosses for example that 25% damage reduction sounds more interesting that 25% more atk speed. there must be some flaw somewhere, correct me where im wroong.
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    thanks, i was just asking. my main isnt a bm but im interested in this.

    now let me get this clear, in order to get 5atk/sec you need to have 4 atk/sec and you gain 25% with demon spark. 2 pieces of lionheart, 2x ashura, tome, cape and fists/claws (http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ee23937e1f7a63d2) that is 0.7 (bese 1.43) - 0.05(2xlionheart) - 0.05(2xashura) - 0.05(tome) - 0.05(cape) -0.1 (wristguards) -0.1 (deicide/tt100) = 0.3 that means 3.33 atk/sec. in order to get 4 atk / sec you still need -0.05 from somewhere so is that from cyclone heel (0.2+1.8 sec to use it) or is there something else?

    as sage you still get 4 atk per second with cyclone, right? that means 5 seconds to gain 1 spark or 15 seconds to gain 3 sparks so with perfect timing you can spark every 15 seconds. well, if you like to solo bosses for example that 25% damage reduction sounds more interesting that 25% more atk speed. there must be some flaw somewhere, correct me where im wroong.

    Demon only needs 3.33 APS to hit 5 APS when demon sparked, the 25% speed buff gives an extra -.05 over smaller buffs at the .3 interval point.

    For .3 interval, 9% to 24% speed buffs will give you 4 APS. 25% is able to give 5 APS, due to the way the game rounds. It is why demon is generally viewed as superior for fists, and before Nirvana came out was indisputably better for fist BMs. Now that Nirvana pants can give another -.05 interval, sage has options with genie skills or others to end up at the same lvl of attack as demon can get, making it not as bad a choice as it was before.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Etaerc - Lost City
    Etaerc - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Damage takes .2 secs to hit, there is still the cast time of 1.8 secs that makes total time last 2 seconds, more if the aftercast cancel trick isn't pressed at the right time. So after 8 secs of attack, it will finally have dealt more damage than if it wasn't used at 4 base APS.

    You forget the fact that pressing 3 buttons in the correct order isn't hard. If the rare fact you do mess up you won't lose more than 1.8 seconds unless you are really clumsy. But yes, with .2 seconds to buff your attack speed and that if you do it correctly the skill doesn't go on cd as long as you have something in range you can consider 5 attack speed permanent.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »
    You forget the fact that pressing 3 buttons in the correct order isn't hard. If the rare fact you do mess up you won't lose more than 1.8 seconds unless you are really clumsy. But yes, with .2 seconds to buff your attack speed and that if you do it correctly the skill doesn't go on cd as long as you have something in range you can consider 5 attack speed permanent.

    All it takes is a little lag to mess it up. Discovered and been using the trick on my own since 2008, so pretty good at timing it. And it won't make you lose 1.8 secs if you miss it, the channel and cast time will always take effect for time when you use the skill, the only thing you're able to stop is the aftercast time where they stand around for about .75 to 1 second. The skill will take 2 seconds even with the aftercast removal trick. And that can be done every other time only, so if doing anything more than cyclone heel followed by normal attack command is done, it extends the amount of time wasted even more.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    if demon spark gives you 12 seconds in wich you can attack, base 2 APS should be enough to spark all the time. (after the first spark, that is) if you miz lionheart and ashura with deicide, (i believe the bonuses are -0.1, not sure though) a fists hits every .7 seconds, so you would need -.45 interval to get to 4APS base.

    i think it is energetic robe-lunar glade that gives you aps (again, not sure)

    robe,(-.05) love up and down (-.05) deicide (-.1) ashura braces (-.1) ashura whatever to complete the 2 piece req for the additional (-.1)

    -if you are an archer fooling around with fists, demon hunter armor.
    -if you are a fist bm, get at least 2 lionheart items.

    that should do.

    an archer with rank 8 armor can actually get to 5 APS WITHOUT buffs (if s/he uses lionheart stuff. and i'm not sure there is a lionheart belt/ring so this might be foolish)
  • Etaerc - Lost City
    Etaerc - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    All it takes is a little lag to mess it up. Discovered and been using the trick on my own since 2008, so pretty good at timing it. And it won't make you lose 1.8 secs if you miss it, the channel and cast time will always take effect for time when you use the skill, the only thing you're able to stop is the aftercast time where they stand around for about .75 to 1 second. The skill will take 2 seconds even with the aftercast removal trick. And that can be done every other time only, so if doing anything more than cyclone heel followed by normal attack command is done, it extends the amount of time wasted even more.

    I've been using/known about this since november 2007. I have spent quite a bit of time mastering it to easily over a 90% success rate with 60-100ms. I have recorded plenty of tries and compared the exact timing to almost all possible **** up situations. When done correctly I achieve only a .4 delay from clicking the skill to normal attacking. With some lag that number increases but it is always lower than 2 seconds by far. I'll take the small small chance of it actually taking a fraction of a second longer for how many times it is properly pulled off. Not to mention with a base of 4 aps I'll rarely use it against a normal enemy. The difference in failing gets smaller with a lower, more obtainable attack speed but so does the difference in success..

    I'm surprised even one person knows about this on this version as most blademasters can't even grasp basic playstyle here :< I'm sure it won't be unheard of for long... b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »
    I've been using/known about this since november 2007. I have spent quite a bit of time mastering it to easily over a 90% success rate with 60-100ms. I have recorded plenty of tries and compared the exact timing to almost all possible **** up situations. When done correctly I achieve only a .4 delay from clicking the skill to normal attacking. With some lag that number increases but it is always lower than 2 seconds by far. I'll take the small small chance of it actually taking a fraction of a second longer for how many times it is properly pulled off. Not to mention with a base of 4 aps I'll rarely use it against a normal enemy. The difference in failing gets smaller with a lower, more obtainable attack speed but so does the difference in success..

    Anyways, any cleric should have learned the trick same way I did: IB spam. Hitting it repeatedly allows to skip the aftercast of the first skill, which can then be tested out on the attack skills for the same effect. Just carried it over to all my alts and BM gets a good amount of use out of it, fists especially.

    Thing is, I used to believe that it removed the cast time of the skill, and only had the channel come into effect. Testing showed that at first animation sequences dictated what skills could have cast cut out, and which couldn't. Later on Frapped it using the trick, and noticed two things: The CDs were not in agreement with cutting out cast time, and channel time is the time to charge the blue bar, the length of time the blue bar is there is the cast time.

    Some of the skills are able to go very fast, due to quick channel, and make it seem to cut the entire previous cast time out. But tracking CD recharge shows that it is only because of skills hitting before cast that makes it seem faster.

    Maybe you have had a different result, and I would be interested in the test conducted, but the testing I did disproved my previous thought that cast was removed, and made it instead the after-cast of the skill being able to be cut out. Which is still a major DPS bonus when spamming skills. Also shows to try to use 2 button combos at a time, as after that an after-cast will slow down the next skill to come. I use that for my HF stun lock to get more damage in, and have a stun lock with about .1 or .2 seconds of non-stunned time.

    EDIT: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2697081&postcount=5

    Found an old post where I explained how to train in after cast cancel. It was when I still thought it canceled cast instead of aftercast of the first skill.
    Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »
    I'm surprised even one person knows about this on this version as most blademasters can't even grasp basic playstyle here :< I'm sure it won't be unheard of for long... b:surrender

    You make it sound like people don't bother outside copying forum guides for how to play their character. Like a year ago, it wasn't as if almost everyone was saying how much fists sucked....Oh wait, they were telling the few of us who were for fist that. Wonder if it's because of a craptastic BM guide that existed at the time from a fist hater who has stopped posting that everyone seemed to think that :)
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Etaerc - Lost City
    Etaerc - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Anyways, any cleric should have learned the trick same way I did: IB spam. Hitting it repeatedly allows to skip the aftercast of the first skill, which can then be tested out on the attack skills for the same effect. Just carried it over to all my alts and BM gets a good amount of use out of it, fists especially.

    Thing is, I used to believe that it removed the cast time of the skill, and only had the channel come into effect. Testing showed that at first animation sequences dictated what skills could have cast cut out, and which couldn't. Later on Frapped it using the trick, and noticed two things: The CDs were not in agreement with cutting out cast time, and channel time is the time to charge the blue bar, the length of time the blue bar is there is the cast time.

    Some of the skills are able to go very fast, due to quick channel, and make it seem to cut the entire previous cast time out. But tracking CD recharge shows that it is only because of skills hitting before cast that makes it seem faster.

    Maybe you have had a different result, and I would be interested in the test conducted, but the testing I did disproved my previous thought that cast was removed, and made it instead the after-cast of the skill being able to be cut out. Which is still a major DPS bonus when spamming skills. Also shows to try to use 2 button combos at a time, as after that an after-cast will slow down the next skill to come. I use that for my HF stun lock to get more damage in, and have a stun lock with about .1 or .2 seconds of non-stunned time.

    EDIT: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2697081&postcount=5

    Found an old post where I explained how to train in after cast cancel. It was when I still thought it canceled cast instead of aftercast of the first skill.



    You make it sound like people don't bother outside copying forum guides for how to play their character. Like a year ago, it wasn't as if almost everyone was saying how much fists sucked....Oh wait, they were telling the few of us who were for fist that. Wonder if it's because of a craptastic BM guide that existed at the time from a fist hater who has stopped posting that everyone seemed to think that :)

    O_O you do it completely different than me, i'm gonna try out that technique but it seems as everything you are saying is correct for your technique. that's why I was so confused. and yeah the real problem with fists was that since they used to only be good at 99+ few people could actually provide evidence as to how good they were. not to mention farming some cv claws would be impossible unless you bought them as no one would spend a month helping you farm a "useless" weapon when they could farm cv bow. lyndura hated on me when I said fists were the main weapon endgame and all I could do was theorycraft.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »
    O_O you do it completely different than me, i'm gonna try out that technique but it seems as everything you are saying is correct for your technique. that's why I was so confused. and yeah the real problem with fists was that since they used to only be good at 99+ few people could actually provide evidence as to how good they were. not to mention farming some cv claws would be impossible unless you bought them as no one would spend a month helping you farm a "useless" weapon when they could farm cv bow. lyndura hated on me when I said fists were the main weapon endgame and all I could do was theorycraft.

    Fists were great from lvl 60 on, once bracers of blood moon and annihilators of soul were gained. That demon spark stacked with it was just an additional bonus. As for weapon; AoS, Dark Flash, TT80 was a path that kept fists at high end DPS even without the packs. So when having reduced -int gear is powerful as is, it shoulda been a no-brainer that getting even just TT99 gold for -.2 would be even more so. That's why I always thought those old axe loving fist haters were so ignorant. It never needed packs, it just needed actual thinking ability and a relatively cheap set of bracers at lvl 60.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • FrostKiller - Sanctuary
    FrostKiller - Sanctuary Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    5.0 unsparked for bm may be possible with nirvana bonuses

    .1 wrist
    .05 99 ha
    .05 99 la
    .05 love up and down
    .05 energetic robe lunar glade
    .1 deicide or striking dragon (claw/fist)
    .05 lionheart greaves (nirvana) possibly 3 *(-0.05)--unsure

    I've seen -0.05 on nirvana lionheart greaves though
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FrostKiller - Sanctuary wrote: »
    5.0 unsparked for bm may be possible with nirvana bonuses

    .1 wrist
    .05 99 ha
    .05 99 la
    .05 love up and down
    .05 energetic robe lunar glade
    .1 deicide or striking dragon (claw/fist)
    .05 lionheart greaves (nirvana) possibly 3 *(-0.05)--unsure

    I've seen -0.05 on nirvana lionheart greaves though

    thats 4 APS unsparked

    still cant beleive you used ashura ornaments >.<
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • FrostKiller - Sanctuary
    FrostKiller - Sanctuary Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i still can't believe i drop 100x barbs in 10 seconds. why do you care what i use anyways? i want 5 aps

    and i stated in my post it may be possible with nirvana bonuses. i didnt say that what i put there was 5 aps. I've heard 2x nirvana pieces would be -0.1 interval, which would give 5.0 unsparked.

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