Just Need Some Clarification

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ah, I was awaiting a troll.

Come down off your soap-box, please. I can't read your mind, hence I can only respond to what you wrote, and what you wrote lacked key information. To quote your own words:

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

There was never an agreement in the beginning, if you failed to read.

I read your first post beginning to end and there was no mention of when/if an agreement was made. I also read your second post beginning to end, and your edit on your second post is ambiguous about what happened.

You stated that you "[were] under the impression" that you were doing one thing, when in fact the squad was doing something else. That didn't tell me if there was an agreement or not, because I wasn't there, all it told me was that you didn't know if there was one. My response was based on the possibility that you may have broken an agreement you had not been aware of for whatever reason.

OK, but that was then, this is now. Now you tell me that there definitely was no agreement. Well then, if that's the situation, then what's the big deal? Your whole party went in with no agreement, then lo-and-behold a disagreement erupts.

There's a very simple and effective solution to avoid this problem: agree beforehand. However, appealing to shifting communal customs after-the-fact is also fine, provided you enjoy the drama involved. And hey, you got a good story to tell about the greedy little guy who booted you over a Lucky Pack, so it's a win for drama-generation.

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For me, a tabbed run is all about the tabber. No its not.

Yes, it is. It may not be for you, but it certainly is for me, which is what I was talking about.

Please don't presume to tell me what I feel tabbed runs are about.

Also, just saying "No it'tisn't" isn't an argument, its just a contradiction. Please see the appropriate Monty Python sketch for the rest of what I have to say about that.

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

P.S. You accuse the tabber of being "greedy", but couldn't the same be said of you for being so stingy about a few measly drops?
How about you wine a fb59 and give all the drops to the tabber and not yourself?

I wouldn't wine it because I prefer to do it unwined (I'm not lazy and the Darkness Stamps there are nice b:pleased). But if the tabber asked me politely and I could do it, I'd give 'em the dang coins too. But that's just me.

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not calling the tabber greedy, I am saying has the level of greed increased to the point to where even the DQ drops on FBs are taken into account?

LOL. And by saying that you're calling the tabber greedy. You can't accuse someone of being an example of an "increasing the level of greed" without also accusing them of being greedy. It's like saying, "I'm not calling him an idiot, I'm just using him as an example of how the levels of idiocy are rising." You can't do the latter, without doing the former.

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

To where the person who is in control of the FB will create chaos over something as miniscule as Explosive Shots?

Honestly, I think of it as "tabber gets drops", that is, all drops, not just the ones you happen to deem as good enough. Why? Because not all people draw the same line at what is "good enough" and what isn't. Making it all drops makes it simple. Also, see below.

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

And I wasn't being stingy at all, if you didn't read, once again.

Please, drop the "if you didn't read" insults. You're whining about someone wanting what they perceived to be their Lucky Pack and now about Explosive Shots too. If that isn't being stingy, I don't know what is. Whether you actually had it or not has nothing to do with the fact that you wouldn't want to give it up even if you did have it.

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sangodoc - Dreamweaver wrote:

For me, a tabbed run is all about the tabber.

And I have to disagree with that statement. Does a tabber have the right to completely disregard the safety of the squad? Does the tabber become God in a situation where...[snipped]

I don't know what statement you're talking about, because I certainly didn't mean anything you're arguing against in that statement, or any other one I've made.

I just mean, the tabber's FB run is an important event for them. It's often the first time they see the dungeon, they're going up against tougher bosses, and they're often now starting to get better drops. FBs also usually come around the same time they just got a bunch of new skills and are low on cash. Thus, this run is one where they need extra protection and training, and it's also a good opportunity for them to do a bit of "fundraising".

You will note that this point has nothing about elevating them to "gods" or whatever other rubbish you strangely attributed to what I said. I'm simply saying I think that there are good reasons why tabbed FB runs are special, and why they should be about the tabber, instead of yourself or a cause for whining because they'd like to get a potentially valuable drop (and yes, I've found Lucky Packs in FBs to be more commonly the type that include pots, pills, and gems than average.) But again, this is just my opinion in the matter, and I admit it is not the case 100% of the time, but I choose to treat it that way to make it fair.

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

When you enter an FB, you agree to do the best with your character to help this person kill a boss. So they get the right to treat you like **** because they have the tabs? I don't think so.

I don't think so either. That's why I didn't argue for that. To quote you, "if you didn't read", please reread what I wrote, and you will see that you're just making a straw man argument.

Look, maybe the tabber was strapped for cash, or was taught to expect all drops, or maybe he had even been ripped off before in an earlier FB run (I know I was on my first two). You don't know because you didn't ask. You just ran to the forum to whine about it behind his back.

Next time, instead of flying off the handle as you did to the tabber and I, perhaps you could first try seeing if what is upsetting you is simply because you are looking at things in a different way than how they were intended.

I find if I run an fb for someone, they're typical of the level where the drops could be of use to them. The way I see it, is if I give the drops to the tabber of the FB, and everyone gives me the drops when I tab my fbs, then its fair.

((And yes, I have wined a fb59 that wasn't mine and gave up the drops))

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Always ran FB's as 3*/molds to tabber, other drops DQ etc left to random.

This is based on tabber also supplying the wine.

TBH if tabber wants ALL the drops they should state that BEFORE the FB. Then if people dont like it they can leave.

Edit: My understanding of it has always been:

Tabs > Gets you a squad to help (since the whole purpose of tabs are an incentive for others to help for xp and rep)

Wine > Gets you the drops

^ this
never tried to take ALL drops when i wined and/or tabbed runs, when ppl still put them on the floor for me or tried to trade them to me i responded with 'i want only 3* and molds please take these' (some stubborn ppl didnt listen anyway @.@) and even this wasn't set in stone either because i sometimes offered 3* for tank to cover repair bill.
and i do know ppl wining instances, not taking pay and not wanting any drops besides random so like opposite end of scale than OP's squad
when giving up every single dq and potion and whatever was demanded from me 'because i wined' i complied but it seemed strange and frankly left bad impression... though on low lvl runs i help with ill drop these for the tabber too without being asked, i wont use anyway while tabber can.

Ouch... necro b:surrender

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now, in FBs, is it still the norm to give the tabber all three stars and molds, you know, for supplying their tabs?

It's guild policy in many of the bigger guilds (but not the one that owns the map in HT). Personally it should be made clear before the person teleports or starts traveling to the FB what the demands of the tabber are.

What do you do, PW players, when you are faced with a member that believes that you should give every single item to them, including the damn Lucky Packs?

I've left the squad many times when I felt the tabber was being greedy and not up front.

Or, even better, say this person didn't even supply the wine for this FB? [Wine is still used in FBs, omg.] But you gave up your mats, your money, your time for them and they still demand the Iron Shots?

I've had to teach a massive amount of people (and many still in denial) that fb59 unwined doesn't take ~4 hours even when I was in my 60s. Excluding boss battles, I could probably have cleared it solo in under an hour at Lv.74. To me it doesn't matter on 39-59 (I don't do 19-29), only matters a little on 69 (mostly cause they pull a 20x3 on us), do like wine on 79, but 89 and 99 I'm fine w/o. This is of course we get to keep drops other than books, 3*, molds. Apocolypse pages I consider the replacement for Darkness Stamps in 89 and they fall from non bosses so they're mine if I get them. I'm already thanking the tabber with the 3*/ mold/ book (which should be arranged prior to rather than assumed).

Have players become so greedy that the moment you don't supply to their demand, you are kicked? Have the player's pighead nature reached an all time high?

I often set the pace so I'm rarely kicked. If I leave, they're usually stuck going much slower and sometimes ask me to come back (if I'm tp'd out of the instance by that time: cya!). Again, they should have clarified their demands from the start. So many people waste the character space allowed in WC's.

If someone is too lazy or ignorant to state their demands upfront before you pay for TP, or waste time on travel: I think they deserve to lose. After all, they have tabs which is a negotiable factor. How many people needing a stacked BH wouldn't pony up for wines as well as give drops to a tabber? Assuming things out of laziness is the problem.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tweakz you do realize you're responding to a post in February right? o_O

I'm drunk, let me stumble, let me puke, then laugh at me. b:victory