Why are people so fast to point blame?

Clerics main job is to protect the tank and keep him alive.

When i did BH51 i refused to BB as it wasn't needed and i told squad before wyvern im going to heal the tank and keep him alive, you take damage then you heal yourself.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Clerics main job is to protect the tank and keep him alive.

When i did BH51 i refused to BB as it wasn't needed and i told squad before wyvern im going to heal the tank and keep him alive, you take damage then you heal yourself.

If you can't stop spamming IH on the tank long enough to cast a Chromatic Healing Beam every 20 seconds or so, then you're either a bad cleric, or you're running with a fail tank.

A cleric's job is to keep the entire squad alive, not just the tank. Everyone else can't do their jobs if they're all dying from AoEs.

Welcome to PWI where it's never 'my fault'. =D

Well, since I wasn't there then I can't really say what happened so I'll just take your word for it.

Now, from what you say you died before aggro switched and if that's the case then you didn't steal aggro (obviously). If you did happen to steal aggro before you died then it would have gone back to whoever had the most aggro after you, which should have been the barb in this case but since it didn't then that means someone else stole aggro from the tank (so barb lost aggro anyway).

As for the barb running to the clerics, if someone stole aggro then the boss will run to whoever stole it. Usually ranged classes stay near the cleric so Rankar would have gone to the clerics as well. The barb might have been trying to get in front of Rankar so he could get back aggro (why he didn't just use roar, I'll never know). If he was in front of Rankar and didn't try to get back aggro then he fails.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you can't stop spamming IH on the tank long enough to cast a Chromatic Healing Beam every 20 seconds or so, then you're either a bad cleric, or you're running with a fail tank.

A cleric's job is to keep the entire squad alive, not just the tank. Everyone else can't do their jobs if they're all dying from AoEs.

I could of but i wasnt going to. Tank dies and then the whole squad would die and guess who would be going to town.

nekoxkitty wrote: »

The problem is not really staying alive it's beeing blamed for everything that goes wrong. Also we have 2 clerics and any time i've been in a group with more then one cleric one keeps the tank alive and the other one keeps everyone else alive. If we have one cleric then yes i'll stay back and take care of my own health.

People can't face up and hold their hands up when the **** up. You just have to laugh at them when they start going mad and blaming everyone but themselves. I was in a FF last week and the 2nd cleric aoe'd Shade and his 2 minions while myself and the rest of the squad was attacking a Bishop and its 4 minions and the cleric started going mad and blaming everyone else for agro'ing the others.

While in a squad with two clerics, you need to do the safe thing for your own good and make sure that one of the clerics if not both know when you need healing. Because, sadly, some clerics are dumb enough to not know when somebody needs healing.

It's a sorry sight to see when a cleric asks "WHO DO I HEAL?!?" when it's obvious who the people are taking damage, but at the same time, it's a very sorry sight to see when people are assuming a cleric will heal them the instant they need the heals. Clerics are only human too and plenty of them out there are stupid enough to think that only a tank will ever need healing.

So personally, while you did not steal aggro like the barb claimed you did (although, I am sorry to say, many upon many TBs I squad with do steal aggro even when told to nerf, and thus this makes it easily possible for people to blame TBs regardless of the actual circumstances) one of these deaths was your own fault.

You should never just assume the clerics will heal you when needed unless you know them, and know they are clerics with enough brain cells to play their class well enough to throw a heal onto somebody else should they need it. Doing so will result in - as you discovered - death.

After the initial death, that whole thing just sounds like a mess up. And you know something else?

Generally, that is the state of most random squads my veno ends up in. It's very sad to see the state of some random squads and the resulting vital status of the people in them after a BH or too. People making mistakes they shouldn't make, throwing blame around when if you had two brain cells you would understand why people died, and generally doing what they aren't supposed to do no matter what you tell them.
When the only cleric in the squad asks you "how do u do a crit?" and then "can i get a res" after they die, yuo know things have gotten bad.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Then carry GAs and res scrolls.

I don't spend my hard-earned coin on pots and charms just so the cleric can be lazy, and only spam heal the tank. If I'm in a squad with a cleric, and the boss has a hard hitting AoE, I do expect the cleric to heal the party as well as the tank.

Besides, if you're not a fail cleric, and you aren't running with a fail tank, you can heal the squad once in a while without worrying about the tank getting killed.

Why should i carry ress scrolls and GAs just so you can attack?
Ress scrolls have a stupidly long cool down anyway b:surrender.

I don't spend my hard-earned coin to spend on ress scrolls or GAs either.

With wyvern i had to heal myself aswell because of his aoe and the positioning of him. You cant really spam heal the tank, pre stack myself and others quick enought to be able to quickly go back to the tank before aoe hits.

I usually use squad heal but in BH51 it was so much easier to just concentrate on the tank. Players would run well within aoe and get 1 shot or 2 shot while i was healing tank. So when i asked everyone to stay back so i cud concentrate on the tank thing were going fine. I then asked ranged classes to stand next to me and attack from range so i cud cast 1 heal to recover us all. That worked fine with no deaths. I refused to be running around healing everyone because they couldn't do it properly.

Im not a fail cleric but it depends on the boss that is being killed and if he has an aoe and how much it hits me for. I can solo heal Nob and Pole in BH69 with using IH and group heal. However, we were not talking about any other bosses or instances except BH51 and BB is not needed in any FB/BH (atleast up untill 79 anyway).

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why should i carry ress scrolls and GAs just so you can attack?
Ress scrolls have a stupidly long cool down anyway b:surrender.

I don't spend my hard-earned coin to spend on ress scrolls or GAs either.

With wyvern i had to heal myself aswell because of his aoe and the positioning of him. You cant really spam heal the tank, pre stack myself and others quick enought to be able to quickly go back to the tank before aoe hits.

I usually use squad heal but in BH51 it was so much easier to just concentrate on the tank. Players would run well within aoe and get 1 shot or 2 shot while i was healing tank. So when i asked everyone to stay back so i cud concentrate on the tank thing were going fine. I then asked ranged classes to stand next to me and attack from range so i cud cast 1 heal to recover us all. That worked fine with no deaths. I refused to be running around healing everyone because they couldn't do it properly.

Im not a fail cleric but it depends on the boss that is being killed and if he has an aoe and how much it hits me for. I can solo heal Nob and Pole in BH69 with using IH and group heal. However, we were not talking about any other bosses or instances except BH51 and BB is not needed in any FB/BH (atleast up untill 79 anyway).

In situations like that, you should position yourself closer to the tank, so you can heal the entire squad with your group heal, without ever moving.

If you're worried about taking more damage from the AoE because you're closer, that's a myth. Besides, at level 88, nothing in FB51 should pose any danger to you.

If melee classes are getting one-shot by wyvern's AoE, well, I feel sorry for them.

Alliptica - Raging Tide wrote: »

i agree with OP, its stupid that people are gonna blame you for stealing aggro when its clear that it was the aoe that killed you. not bcuz you stole aggro.

also it looks to me like sins are the new archer b:frustrated i used to get blamed like that all the time on my archer before sins came into play.

Archers to get alot of stick for taking agro b:surrender. Ive seen someone blamed for agro'ing the boss and dying when it was minion that came from nowhere and killed them.

OT: People will not accept responsibility for their own mistakes so most will try to pass the baton along to someone else.

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm a cleric but unfortunately I would have to +1 this statement.

Yes it is the primary responsibility of a cleric to keep the tank alive but keeping the rest of the squad up is a very close second. I solo healed my own fb69 at lvl 69 with less than impressive gear and you are worried about wyvern in BH51?

Yes other people should think about the limits of the cleric but part of being a cleric is healing past the limits of sanity....its not like we're talking about a 6x squad trying to kill drummer in TT without BB.

When i did BH51 it was ages ago when BHs were still new and people were still getting used to them. I started to do what i said after people were being idiots and as a result of tryin to keep keep everyone alive i was taking many trips to town.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In situations like that, you should position yourself closer to the tank, so you can heal the entire squad with your group heal, without ever moving.

If you're worried about taking more damage from the AoE because you're closer, that's a myth. Besides, at level 88, nothing in FB51 should pose any danger to you.

If melee classes are getting one-shot by wyvern's AoE, well, I feel sorry for them.

Maybe i wasn't clear enough so i apologise for that. When i said about BH51 it was when i was in that level range for that BH. In TT3-1 i take more damage when im closer to the aoe boss (first one i think) and he used to 1 hit me b:surrender. The i stood as far back as i could and i was fine and could maintain healing squad, myself and tank.

It wasn't the melee people that were being one shot it was mainly the wizards and archers who thought they were indestructible and ran face first into wyvern.

Alliptica - Raging Tide wrote: »

i agree with OP, its stupid that people are gonna blame you for stealing aggro when its clear that it was the aoe that killed you. not bcuz you stole aggro.

also it looks to me like sins are the new archer b:frustrated i used to get blamed like that all the time on my archer before sins came into play.

The thing with archers is, though, it's obvious when they steal aggro.

Because you can't have Rankar suddenly bolt across the room after you and then say "I didn't steal!!!" People would call your bluff quite easily as Rankar (and Wyvern and Fush in 51) have to run towards you if you steal aggro. This is based on the assumption you are at max range, which at Rankar and Wyvern, you would be.

That aside, however, it's very easy for Sins to steal aggro and I'm getting annoyed with a lot of them. Psychics and sins alike - in squads I have been with anyway - will steal aggro even if you tell them to nerf. Even when you clearly state in huge bold letters "You must nerf your damage" or "Pets do not spam aggro skills like barbs do" or "You need to wait for the BM tank to get in a fair few hits" many TBs I squad with disregard the warnings and nuke bosses into oblivion/make them pincushions.

And then they die. And then they cry and want a res and say how it wasn't their fault and you just want to leave them dead and tell them to town tele for their blatant stupidity.

It is very sad, but true, I have not had the pleasure of squadding with many competent Tideborns. Other people have had the same problems. This makes the naive very willing to blame a TB for the failure of a squad.

It does suck to see the amount of blame pointed at psychics and assassins for stealing aggro from the tank. For this reason, I am very careful to only hit with a skill every once in a while. I hope to see you sometime on Dreamweaver Airyll...I know a few TB that could make an FB fun! But for those who do think TB steal aggro too much, it all depends on the build. Personally, I am going for a PvP sin, so I am careful to nerf myself in boss battles, due to my higher damage and lower defense (pure dex sins ROCK). If a person does steal aggro a lot, though, they should probably consider switching to a class that can handle that, say a Barb or BM. I just love to see the bleed and crits from my sin!!

And WTF for a dead avatar -.-

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Second people expect everyone else to think and play the way they do. This is why many people will say that the best fb/bh/whatever squads the go with are faction mates because they know how eachother think and play.

I think he just outlined the one big problem. And not only that, when people don't act the way the "leader" thinks they should, the "leader" gets upset and either leaves or boots the contrary person from the party...not the greatest situation in the world. I agree wholeheartedly that the best parties to go with are faction-based parties, because not only do you know what they think and anticipate actions from them, they are less obstinate and more willing to take blame when something goes wrong. I don't know how many times I have been doing a faction run, something goes wrong, and the first text I see is "Sorry guys, my mistake" or something like that.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Less open-minded people, however, will use the fact that many people cannot play their class properly and the bad reputation this gave the Tideborn to their advantage. It's easy to frame a class with a bad reputation for being dumb enough to steal aggro even if you gave them a step-by-step guide to nerfing. =|

You have to wonder what has kept Venos in our good graces for so long...my guess would be the hercs...

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You have to wonder what has kept Venos in our good graces for so long...my guess would be the hercs...

Personally, venos weren't labelled as a stupid class more as a "OMFGHAXORZ YOU'RE ALL OP" class.

But then again, I have squadded with more bad Tideborns in the two months they've been out then I have squadded with bad venos since I started this game.

Every class has it's failures and stupid people, but the thing is, back in those days, they didn't have oracle sales, hyper EXP or anything else to powerlevel them to 90 before they had to learn their class. Generally, the older classes have a better rep than Tideborns because people are more knowledgeable in these classes and there's guides for them, so even if you oracle you have the ability to disguise it.

Also, I love amplify damage. ._.

nekoxkitty wrote: »

Ok so I was on my main sin earlier today and I was doing my BH 51. We had sin (me) 2 clerics a barb a wiz and a archer. Well we got to Rankar and the barb just charged right to him before we cleared I went to clear I got one killed but then i noticed everyone was focusing on Rankar. Anyways I go to help because well we had 2 clerics and any BH i've been in that had 2 clerics were always able to heal me and the barb unless one used BB. Anyways I go to help and the cleric doesn't pay any attention to my health so I go to run out of the way and his aoe hits me. Barb loses aggro after that I get rezed I die again due to everyone not clearing out the other monsters then barb loses aggro again runs right into the clerics and get them killed I get rezed I go invisible cause I see barb running around chasing after everyone else they all die then it starts. The barb starts saying I stole aggro then everyone else joins in and says I got the squad killed. I kept trying to tell them I died before aggro started bouncing but they wouldn't listen I also tell them the barb got everyone killed because he charged in before we cleared and then started chasing after people with rankar right behind him.

So what I want to know is why is everyone so quick to toss the blame to who ever they feel like it. Because it's not the first time this has happend where some one dies and then I get blamed or we have a low lvl tank and were killing things and everyone is stealing aggro but im the only one who gets told to stop it. Seriously is it because im a sin? Or is it because im a girl? Or do people just feel like I deserve to be blamed for pretty much everything because it's really starting to become a problem where I end up leaving because everyones blaming me for anything that goes wrong.

eeeew, this reeks of fail. including you.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Clerics main job is to protect the tank and keep him alive.

When i did BH51 i refused to BB as it wasn't needed and i told squad before wyvern im going to heal the tank and keep him alive, you take damage then you heal yourself.

^Fail cleric..just pure fail lol