Awkward TT distribution?

Indeed, if a veno does most of the hard work, then it's normal to "upgrade" her pick. Not more then normal i think.

The Tank-cleric-dd rule is indeed flawed. But in a "general" setup where you do have a tank-cleric-dd group, that rule is common.
If BM tanks, imo it's the bm that gets first pick. If a veno with herc, it's the veno. Simple to understand and follow.

As for "barbs needed", i've run nearly all my BH51/59 on my sin without a barb. Either the bm tanked or i did. I suspect in future TT's it will go the same way. With my cleric i've seen several TT's go without a barb but with a higher lvld veno/herc combo or even a BM or sin.

The way i read your original post it seemed like had the veno not stepped in you would have lost soul. That to me is the 3rd pick right there but i'll admit it's hard to make these calls not really knowing how the run was made in general.

What i was getting at is Tank-Healer-DD is esentially a bribe system.

Tank gets first pick because he's the hardest to get, especially as many people will only take barbs.

Healer (to all practical purposes cleric) is the second hardest. An extra healer should only get 3rd pick if actually needed to heal. A lot of people insist on taking two clerics "in case". For all i care they can donate their pick if they need the safety blanket.

Veno with an herc comes third if she'll be tanking at least one boss. TBH you should forego insisting on an herc veno if you want the second cleric to get third pick because IMO it's disrespectful to have someone tank a boss and get 4th pick. Unless you can't absolutely make the run without a second cleric and the veno insists on coming. Now, i don't speak for myself, i neither have an herc nor want one.

Everyone else gets lumped as DD. TBH venos should get first pick amongst these as pets are the best DD in TT, but usually level is used to sort order here.

The sad thing is this is being practical to the point of being a cynic. In part this is a flaw in PW's take on the holy trinity, as while BMs can take on the barb's job with some degree of competence there's no substitute for cleric. Having only two classes as necessary for runs leaves 6 others fighting for the scraps. In part this is also something players have failed in allowing to happen. That BMs aren't traditionally thought of as tanks, along with a large number of them being ill prepared (it's amazing how many BMs at my level range don't even know what Alpha Male is) makes the dependence on barbs much more stronger than it needs to be. Some issues are compounded. Traditionally the two most popular classes (BM and veno) are good at soloing. Because questing at low and mid levels involves a lot of traveling most people end up doing a large part of their leveling without a squad. This encourages a vindictive attitude in many barbs and clerics who later feel unsympathetic towards a playerbase that appears to have rejected them when they needed help.

Now, i myself don't believe anyone is entitled to anything, but this is the reality of our virtual world. Barbs and clerics get the first picks not because it's fair, but because they can.

For like, what 9 tokens? you get 50 event MP pots that restore a ton of MP. MP charms are just if your lazy.

XXSairaXx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So I did this TT 1-2 the other day.

You don't have to read this below, but I just thought I'd share a story. b:surrender
So, we made it up to Soul. Well you see, there were two clerics doing BB and for some reason, my BB was either interrupted or just hates me and stopped even though I used pots. So here I am, all sad face'd and stuff trying to get the sparks back to continue BB. With the other cleric's BB still going, I thought I could just attack for a bit but then BAM I'm dead. Now Soul is almost dead as well, so the other cleric cancels her BB to revive me but dies in the process. The Veno and her herc along with the tank finish off Soul. The other cleric goes back to ToA and comes back to re-revive (lol?) me and the sad psychic who also died. Well on her way, she had to rush through several rooms of monsters we had 'skipped and jumped over the edge'. She didn't survive. Then we all decide to return to ToA and distribute the items.

Here's where you should read.
The tank takes his pick. He picks a Drum framework of course. Then it's my turn. I also take a Drum. He then proceeds to the Veno. The other cleric, confused, states, "I'm a cleric too y'know," to which he replies, "I know but the lower cleric is considered a DD,". So here we are, the rest of the squad with "@___@??1/?" faces. And all she comes out with is 3 mirages.
I talked to my faction about it, and basically what I got out of them was, "A cleric is a cleric. That Barb is wrong,". I pretty much agree here. I also felt bad for her, even though she told me she TT's all the time on her Veno, I just felt bad for her as her first experience as a cleric in TT.

So yeah, your opinions on this awkward distribution of TT loot? b:question

Why the hell did you have 2 clerics using BB O_O

It doesn't stack you know, you dont get double dmg reduction with 2 BBs b:chuckle

1 cleric heal tank + party heal and 1 cleric uses BB if the party is low lvl <.< Than you most likely would not have died, unless you got 1 shoot from aoe b/c you have a terrible build/gear and dont know how to use plume shield.

Also she should not get anything, not even mirage, after being so dumb that she closes her BB to ress in the middle of a boss that uses aoe that kills squishy 7X without BB up >.<

A cleric is not really a cleric if you only need 1 for the run and bring a second along only to DD. All tho in this case i think you kinda needed 2 clerics for heals + BB and the drops should have been distributed according to that - IF you guys actually had done your jobs which you obviously didn't b:surrender

I never do TTs with random squads because of this. People should join a trustworthy faction, and USUALLY faction mates are fair to each other... usually... then again i've had my share of using random people in squads before, and well went well, but it was a TT2-3

lower level TTs just don't have enough mats to go around for everyone , so i avoided them ^^

Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »

If we're doing say... Ancient Evil in 2-3 then I'll give the clerics 2nd and 3rd pick.

lolwut?

how did you fit so much wrong in one sentence? Kudos to you

Also If your making a TT group just don't pick more then 2 clerics to come with you

This.

I hate it when there's like, me and another barb in an HH run. We go in, I tank all of the bosses and on like, one random boss in the middle that I can (and do) tank with a macro while AFK, asks to tank the boss. Then when we get to the end he's all "OK I GET SECOND PICK BECAUSE I TANKED THAT ONE BOSS"

ideally it would go on a need before greed basis whereby he who is higher level and needs stuff now or 5 levels ago gets to choose first so as not to get jipped by a lower level tank and healer who don't need the stuff yet. BUT... since everyone and their mother loves to place classes at different levels of imporatance.. I have to say that if you're gonna do a "by role" pick system based on "costs" then it should be based on whoever incurs the most cost from the run. Barbs get lots of damage received and (depending on your style and the quality of your DD's) can spend upwards of 100 mana pots in TT. CLerics no doubt cost more - major mana charm rapage.

OFC.. don't just toss first pick to someone who put on a platinum charm that barely ticked. There's still use left on it!

BUT... can we really trust people to be honest about their costs if the pick system ran that way? Heck no. Too may selfish and greedy people in this game. Soo.. considering the cookie cutter pick system of:

Barb, cleric(s), DD by level - lets ammend that to state:

TANK, healer, puller (can be a veno or anyone who has earthflame on their genie), DD by level / contribution (ie.. did you fight the whole time and help save the cleric if the fit hit the shan, or did you muck things up / go afk during bosses? Did you (as a veno) come in as both a puller and damage dealer but end up leaving your pet stowed on Dimentora even though I'm canceling all his AoE??)

anywho.. I've been on veno party runs where there was NO barb and only one cleric to do BB at aoe bosses, otherwise she was doing DD. At times like this you can't say "barb cleric dd by level" since there's no barb, and the cleric isnt spamming heals on the tank pet to prevent a party wipe. OTOH, you have your tanking veno playing "barb" (1st) venos that throw in support heals if needed "clerics" (by level / contribution to the role) then the other venos who just spam scarabs (DD's)

"Pick" systems are LAME. Really only done by greedy people an nubs.

3 types of runs:

1) Pick-up party. These are most likely run by greedy ****s. Should either be split by equal share or who needs what mats. Subber is generally allowed to call 1 specific mat, the rest get split and shared equally. Use mats and mirages to equal out the value for everyone. Uncalled gold gets sold and split.

2) Faction run. Mats go to those that actually need it, the rest is sent to faction bank. Uncalled gold usually gets sold and split.

3) Friends / Money run. One person banks, sells and splits. Or if someone needs mats for a run, they get what they need, the rest are sold and split between everyone else. Gold can be called by subber, but they don't get the split. Uncalled gold gets sold and split. Cleric should keep track of charm usage and be reimbursed from the funds from sales.

Everyone puts their time and effort into doing a run. Your effort is not worth any more than anyone elses. A cleric healing or a veno just to purge and amp, as long as they both do their job should be paid equally. Nobody should be left with just a couple mirages unless they've agreed in advance to opt out from mats, then they should receive most of the mirages from the run.

Of course there are exceptions... if there are a number of party wipes, clerics should be reimbursed their dolls/rez scrolls. In extreme cases like Belial, they should have their charm costs covered.

My experiences from pick-up parties is that someone usually gets screwed. The only time I don't receive anything or don't distribute evenly if i'm doing a run for a friend and I'm only there to help, in that case I generally don't take anything.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Let me get this straight. People don't do faction runs because they don't have a faction that runs TT. Or even if their faction is doing TT on daily basis, the live on another timezone. My timezone is GMT +2, 10 hours more than the Sanctuary time. I can play from 10am to midnight, GMT +2. That means midnight to 2 pm server time. Most people are not on at that time, either at school or sleeping late. Random squads are really the only way, and even then those are very hard to find.

Farming 7x gear is probably the hardest... You need to find people of your level who are always on, and it's best that you're in the same faction so you can easily ask for a few others when you need. Once you start doing this a few times, you'll get a couple people willing to regularly go and other people will see this and want to go too.

It isn't an easy task to accomplish, but the last faction I was in had a whole bunch of people always asking for HH runs, but never actually willing to try to put squads together, and instead would just say "I need 2-1 anyone doing" while another would say "I need 1-2" etc... they would just get frustrated and ragequit faction or log off... however they never got sight that hey, you need one instance, they need another... why not do a couple of runs and get mats for everyone? My regular group showed a few different people how to run those, and within 3 weeks we had two other full parties running their own instances without the need for high levels to help them.

Of course, you need to be in a largish faction with enough similarly leveled people to do this. If you're in a small or lowbie guild, you may just need to buy your mats.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Why would you farm 7x HH gear other than a weapon?

cause making 80 gear is hard to do without 70 gear.

Imo I think the Tank>Healer> and so on so forth

But in a TT I was in I was the only girl b:cry
They gave me fist pick because they said I was freakishly hawt b:cute
b:victoryb:victory
Just pray you get in a TT with h*rny guys you'l be sure to get first pick ^^

Or molds.

They gave me fist pick because they said I was freakishly hawt

Just pray you get in a TT with h*rny guys you'l be sure to get first pick ^^

That is wrong on so many levels.

axt57 wrote: »

Why do people call it HH and not TT?

I know its called HH in MY, but this PWI.

Why are you being picky?

Many of the old-school players here migrated from PW-MY and it's no surprise they use MY terminology for this reason.

If you knew what they meant, I don't see what the problem is.