Demon/Sage for pole/axe BM

unoxx · February 2010

Hi, I'm about to hit lvl 89, so I get to choose whether to go demon or sage. Please dont say use search, cause I have, and I also have read ecatomb and what not. I just cant decide yet.

I've been thinking about it a lot and atm im tending to go sage.
About my char:
I use polearms and axes, and atm I dont rly PvP. I used to do that a lot until anni packs made the cash shoppers all powerful. I might do it again when I get higher.

So sage gives me more defense and guaranteed damage, while demon gives more chance to do more damage (crit/att speed). I dont think I will ever reach 99/get demon/sage ulties so Im gonna leave those out of consideration.

Right now I prefer sage because it gives me 90% dmg increase vs 75 from demon, and it gives 120+50=170% weapon dmg + and additional 800 dmg on farstrike . Since farstrike is an awesome skill, and I use it A LOT this is an important factor to me. More range from demon is nice, but only rly usefull in PvP, while sage is good in both pvp and pve.
The same goes for aoelian blade, faster cooldown is only usefull in pvp, but more dmg in pvp and pve.

For meteor rush sage/demon is kinda equal, maybe demon is better for pvp... but rly unreliable stun.
Sage fissure seems worthless (the effect) since I dont have any fire skills. Maybe in a party its nice.
Sage Highland cleave gives more crit, vs more att speed on demon. What gives more dmg here?

All in all, I might go sage because it seems usefull in both pve and pvp, and demon seems to excel only in pvp.

So, what do you think about my considerations and do you have anything to add?
Tnx in advance!

Ehmi - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Looks like you already made up your mind. Do what you want to do not what others suggest. My advice.
And Sage Highland>Demon Highland by a lot.

HeavensWing - Sanctuary · February 2010

You just made up your mind in the post dude o.o
IMO sage is better for axe BMs and Meh, dunno about pole
Unless your high on money using two weapons for sage/demon is gonna cut WAYYY into your wallet. But meh.

memq · February 2010

Demon is better if u are planning to go for lvl 99-100, because every demon doom is better
About Sage Fissure: it's usefull in Rebirth when u got a wizard, it allows him to do quite higher constant damage... On the other hand it gives him more aggro. But still it's nice. Anyway u can learn this skill only at 99, so i don't know if u should consider it. For me both demon / sage version of it are equal.
About Sage Highland Cleave - yeah, that's the only holy skill imho that's way better than dark. I got Dark H.C., but it almost never works for me... it's more like 10-15%, no 20% chance... Even if the chance was higher it's pretty useless. I use this skill during AoE, and then the atack speed doesn't matter.
Sage Aura of the Golden Bell is better for squad, Dark for PK. Both Dark Roar and Drake Bash are better for PK because they allow to keep opponent stunlock without using unreliable Aeolian Blade.
Dark Drake Sweep gives nice boost in vigor, usefull during AoE (Dragon more often).
Other skills are balanced

unoxx · February 2010

Yea maybe I kinda made up my mind, wrinting it down helps a lot... Still, I might have missed some important factors.
I do intend to go with what I seem to be best, but a while ago i was determined to go demon, but now I tend to sage, you know what I mean? thats why I opened this thread.
Anyway, tnx for the repplies!! Very useful

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2010

unoxx wrote: »

Right now I prefer sage because it gives me 90% dmg increase vs 75 from demon

You don't actually get a 15% increse in damage. It works out to be about 3% difference between sage and demon. For example, demon hit for 2000 pts would be a sage hit for about 2060 pts.

A couple points to strength, up your refine by one or one higher grade shard easily compensates that difference.

unoxx · February 2010

Uhm, do you have a link to the math behind that?

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2010

unoxx wrote: »

Uhm, do you have a link to the math behind that?

Here Solandri is explaining how Sage/Demon Bow Mastery works. Yes, it is calculations based off archers, but it's really the same forumla for how BM masteries work. Just use it to realize where this 75/90% bonus is being added.
Masteries give 75%+crit or 90% increase in base damage, not calculated or final damage.

Your base damage can be increased easier by adding some STR, or weapon damage can be increased with a better shard or an extra refine to compensate, whereas the extra crit is a bit harder to get.

Really, if you're going sage it shouldn't be because of the Mastery. Aolean Blade and Aura are the two best reasons to go sage, IMO. I went Demon because a BM to me is Dragons + Stuns. Roar always hits, Drake Bash is 7.5 seconds... I didn't even consider hell spark + fists when I decided... but I'm glad I did.

If you have specific questions about masteries and how they affect calculated damage, I'm sure he'd be happy to answer you.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6879982&postcount=61

memq · February 2010

according to this post, sage mastery gives 4% more damage than dark.
Interested thing - i put that formula into excel, and it turned out that 1 more attack level gives about 0.1% more damage, which means that attack level stones are garbage (they were anyway, even if it would be 1%).

Telarith - Sanctuary · February 2010

Damage of the 15% extra from sage weapon mastery is variable. The more strength had, the less it matters. 4% is the rough estimate of a 3-2 build at lvl 92. The number shrinks when stat boosts from gear or tomes are added in, and should celestial spark be used it shrinks even further, below 2% I think. And the higher stat goes, from better gear or the level cap being raised, the worse sage mastery becomes comparatively.

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

For sage only being 3% damage improvement, worked with assumption of str being boosted 3 per level. Which with damage formula, translates out to:

1 + ((275 *2/3)/100) + .9 = 3.73
divided by
1+ ((275*2/3)/100) + .75 = 3.58

Ending with 104% damage compared to demon, for 4% extra damage in base physical. Now with the extra damage from using skills, which will be the same amount of damage added to both, the extra damage going for sage decreases. Also, the higher strength is raised above 275, from adds or higher level, the less extra damage % sage adds. And this is taken with only lvl 90 consideration. For PvE, using sparks at all, reduces that number further still. For fists, it would be rendered a non-issue by triple sparks attack speed boost anyways. And axes extra length amp adds that many more AoEs that can be used before it falls.

Demon/Sage for pole/axe BM

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