Awkward TT distribution?
XXSairaXx - Dreamweaver
Posts: 194 Arc User
So I did this TT 1-2 the other day.
You don't have to read this below, but I just thought I'd share a story. b:surrender
So, we made it up to Soul. Well you see, there were two clerics doing BB and for some reason, my BB was either interrupted or just hates me and stopped even though I used pots. So here I am, all sad face'd and stuff trying to get the sparks back to continue BB. With the other cleric's BB still going, I thought I could just attack for a bit but then BAM I'm dead. Now Soul is almost dead as well, so the other cleric cancels her BB to revive me but dies in the process. The Veno and her herc along with the tank finish off Soul. The other cleric goes back to ToA and comes back to re-revive (lol?) me and the sad psychic who also died. Well on her way, she had to rush through several rooms of monsters we had 'skipped and jumped over the edge'. She didn't survive. Then we all decide to return to ToA and distribute the items.
Here's where you should read.
The tank takes his pick. He picks a Drum framework of course. Then it's my turn. I also take a Drum. He then proceeds to the Veno. The other cleric, confused, states, "I'm a cleric too y'know," to which he replies, "I know but the lower cleric is considered a DD,". So here we are, the rest of the squad with "@___@??1/?" faces. And all she comes out with is 3 mirages.
I talked to my faction about it, and basically what I got out of them was, "A cleric is a cleric. That Barb is wrong,". I pretty much agree here. I also felt bad for her, even though she told me she TT's all the time on her Veno, I just felt bad for her as her first experience as a cleric in TT.
So yeah, your opinions on this awkward distribution of TT loot? b:question
You don't have to read this below, but I just thought I'd share a story. b:surrender
So, we made it up to Soul. Well you see, there were two clerics doing BB and for some reason, my BB was either interrupted or just hates me and stopped even though I used pots. So here I am, all sad face'd and stuff trying to get the sparks back to continue BB. With the other cleric's BB still going, I thought I could just attack for a bit but then BAM I'm dead. Now Soul is almost dead as well, so the other cleric cancels her BB to revive me but dies in the process. The Veno and her herc along with the tank finish off Soul. The other cleric goes back to ToA and comes back to re-revive (lol?) me and the sad psychic who also died. Well on her way, she had to rush through several rooms of monsters we had 'skipped and jumped over the edge'. She didn't survive. Then we all decide to return to ToA and distribute the items.
Here's where you should read.
The tank takes his pick. He picks a Drum framework of course. Then it's my turn. I also take a Drum. He then proceeds to the Veno. The other cleric, confused, states, "I'm a cleric too y'know," to which he replies, "I know but the lower cleric is considered a DD,". So here we are, the rest of the squad with "@___@??1/?" faces. And all she comes out with is 3 mirages.
I talked to my faction about it, and basically what I got out of them was, "A cleric is a cleric. That Barb is wrong,". I pretty much agree here. I also felt bad for her, even though she told me she TT's all the time on her Veno, I just felt bad for her as her first experience as a cleric in TT.
So yeah, your opinions on this awkward distribution of TT loot? b:question
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Remember to feed your Clerics three meals a day!
Remember to feed your Clerics three meals a day!
Post edited by XXSairaXx - Dreamweaver on
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Comments
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Depends on the instance. If we're doing say... Ancient Evil in 2-3 then I'll give the clerics 2nd and 3rd pick. If it is a place where 2 clerics are not needed, then the cleric who doesn't need to heal is counted as a DD. I don't remember needing 2 clerics for 1-2... so I agree with the barb on this one.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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well yes the barb was wrong imo. a cleric is a cleric no matter if she/he dd's or heals more.
in mat split sqs (from experience), the more bb-ing/healing cleric gets first pick and the more dd'ing than healing cleric gets 2nd.
now im almost always doing coin split sqs tho, its fair to everyone =]0 -
BM, Archer, Veno, Wiz.
/thread
=S
Not another thread like this.
If there are 4 clerics, a veno, and a barb. And only one of the clerics heal, then the veno will probably get last pick, even though veno DD > Cleric DD.
fail
Its not Barb>cleric>DD
Its
Tanker>Healer>DD
(ignoring subber/people who need mats for weps cuz that just makes it complicated)
And im guessing that same cleric is going to make a thread about the mistreatment of clerics on this very forum.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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yes that is actually normal distribution making the 2nd cleric a dd but it isnt based on lvl rather which cleric bbed or which one went to town. The cleric that went to town shoulda been considered the "cleric" and the one who didnt shoulda been the dd.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Understandable, we did take turns with our fair share of DD, but it just shocked me to watch him skip the other cleric and then go in order of DD levels. Since she was the lowest, she got last pick. I was just all like,"b:shutupb:shocked.Q__Q"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »And im guessing that same cleric is going to make a thread about the mistreatment of clerics on this very forum.
Yes yes oh how we're so abused. I doubt it. She said she was fine, I just thought I might as well say something about it and get others' opinions and 2 cents. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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What's funny is the rationale behind the cleric getting the pick behind a barb is the mp costs, however, in the case of bb vs dd, dd consumes more mp, so it's unavoidable a cleric burning through pots. As a cleric I was always more inclined to position myself in a squad for the best picks just out of sheer importance to a squad, however, to avoid any complications it's just easy to make it a money run or do 'em with friends who are willing to just hand over the mats you need and vice versa. This is how I got my veno's TT90 HA and AA gear, my cleric's TT90 AA, and barb's TT80 gold gear.0
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Soul Banisher needs 2 clerics. Or a herc veno and a cleric. His physical AOE is big enough to hit the person healing the tank, and can 1-shot most squishies. So that healer needs a cleric to BB and/or heal them.Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »Depends on the instance. If we're doing say... Ancient Evil in 2-3 then I'll give the clerics 2nd and 3rd pick. If it is a place where 2 clerics are not needed, then the cleric who doesn't need to heal is counted as a DD. I don't remember needing 2 clerics for 1-2... so I agree with the barb on this one.
Not that I agree with the tank > healer > DD pick order. By that logic, if my veno's herc is tanking and I'm tossing in the occasional nuke or Amp, I should get 1st, 2nd, and 3rd pick.0 -
well yes the barb was wrong imo. a cleric is a cleric no matter if she/he dd's or heals more.
What does it mean, "cleric is a cleric"? I always thought that order of picking in TT depends on function in squad, not class. I saw many fail squads, where I tanked and barb DD. And in the end, barb was like: "wait a sec, I got 1st pick". Same goes with clerics. In squads with more than 1 cleric, it should be cleared out before you start run: which one is gonna heal at bosses. Simple as that. And whole that "barb is barb" or "cler is cler" talking is just wrong.0 -
Okay so far i have twice been banking (im veno), and i find the distribue system ppl use okay fair, though its sad for the DDs always to be last. Anyway, the 2nd time as the bank we had two clerics among us. In this case the lowest cleric was treated as a DD, in my opinion fair and square ill explain why.
For the first he was lower lvl than the TT1-1 asked for (which i for my part find bad reason, but some would use that). My reason for placing him (in this case last) as a DD, was that during the whole TT all he really did was DD and then a single heal once in a while. all in all used what 20pots. Asked other clerics if that was alot and i bet others can also agree its not more than other classes. (oh yeah im lieing he wasn't last i was as a lvl 73 i think, cuz i for my part didn't have any costs b:surrender, so i'd call that fair even though he cried over being an obvious DD >.>)
In ur case its somethign else, i don't know if two Healers were needed but fact is the other cleric also had his/her costs, and should be payed according to that. Poor clericr eally feel bad =(
Also another case one of my wiz friends did all she should, wasn't lowest lvl, and deffinatly had one of the highest costs, without over using on her pots charm etc. She was left with sad drops plain out where i got good drop, and one cler even two good drops ... bs, watch out who u TT with, i ended up giving her my okay drop since she needed it more.Dreamsweavers GhostDogz are looking for you to join the pack
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Yeah see? That makes sense there. If a cleric obviously DD's, then I wouldn't see anything the matter with considering them a DD and putting them on the (sad) DD list. :U[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Remember to feed your Clerics three meals a day!0 -
the whole logic tank>healer>dd cant really be applied to any situation, cause in many TT's people switch roles during the run.
A small example: 3-2 TT run
squad: barb, veno, cleric, archer, wiz, bm
1st boss: veno tanks it to save repairs from barb
so veno= tanker, healer, dd, rest of squad dds
2nd boss : all classes do only dd
3rd boss : same as 1st
4rth boss :barb tanks
so barb = tanker, cleric = healer, rest of squad dd
5th boss : same as 4rth
6th boss: archer tanks
so archer= tanker, cleric =healer wiz dd, barb and bm sit and wait for boss to die because they cant dd due to aoe sleep.
4rth and 5th boss in case barb dies the bm can take his place continuing to tank which will also make him the tanker if that were to happen.
so how would you distribute mats in a squad like that?
p.s i liked what Solandri said, if a veno is tanking the whole TT then according to tanker>healer>dd logic, veno gets to have first 3 picks......[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I guess I am not mercenary enough. I just ran TT1-2 with a group, one Barb, two sins, a bm and a psy. I joined just for fun, not for the drops and when we got finished, I was willing to let the others have what they needed for their weps and armor. We took 2 frame of drum, 3 golden armor things and 4 skins. The only thing I claimed was one of the skins because they insisted I take it. My cost was about 20 pots and 1100 coins for armor damage. Should I be more demanding next time?b:thanks"Imagination is more important than intelligence."0
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Thistle_grey - Sanctuary wrote: »I guess I am not mercenary enough. I just ran TT1-2 with a group, one Barb, two sins, a bm and a psy. I joined just for fun, not for the drops and when we got finished, I was willing to let the others have what they needed for their weps and armor. We took 2 frame of drum, 3 golden armor things and 4 skins. The only thing I claimed was one of the skins because they insisted I take it. My cost was about 20 pots and 1100 coins for armor damage. Should I be more demanding next time?b:thanks
If you want to just help people, and if that one drop is enough to cover the costs (and I think it is), then I think you don't have to take more than that.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
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XXSairaXx - Dreamweaver wrote: »Yes yes oh how we're so abused. I doubt it. She said she was fine, I just thought I might as well say something about it and get others' opinions and 2 cents. b:surrender
That was sarcasm, by the way, and you probably dont go on the forums that much (post count, and that you didnt really get the context) cuz there are so many QQcleric threads about how theyre mistreated and then get revenge on everybody they meet because a BM in the past has annoyed the cleric in a FB39, he ran into a group of mobs and died and flamed the cleric, obviously all BMs are like this.
..[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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IMO, this is so messed up... I just can't see random squad like this. I think that it's important to agree before run, who'll do what and what will be the pick order, to avoid situations like "but I healed during 3rd boss a little!". Fair order always depends on function or COSTS of every squad member. It's all about using brain before you start TT. For me, it's always obvious that in 2 cler squad I have to know who's the main healer. And if both clerics wants to heal in 1-2, 1-3, 2-1, then I just leave squad. Not worth squaing with that kind of people, who cut their own costs and still demand 2nd or 3rd pick, that's simply not fair.Candydrop - Lost City wrote: »the whole logic tank>healer>dd cant really be applied to any situation, cause in many TT's people switch roles during the run.
A small example: 3-2 TT run
squad: barb, veno, cleric, archer, wiz, bm
1st boss: veno tanks it to save repairs from barb
so veno= tanker, healer, dd, rest of squad dds
2nd boss : all classes do only dd
3rd boss : same as 1st
4rth boss :barb tanks
so barb = tanker, cleric = healer, rest of squad dd
5th boss : same as 4rth
6th boss: archer tanks
so archer= tanker, cleric =healer wiz dd, barb and bm sit and wait for boss to die because they cant dd due to aoe sleep.
4rth and 5th boss in case barb dies the bm can take his place continuing to tank which will also make him the tanker if that were to happen.
so how would you distribute mats in a squad like that?
p.s i liked what Solandri said, if a veno is tanking the whole TT then according to tanker>healer>dd logic, veno gets to have first 3 picks......0 -
Kazamatt - Dreamweaver wrote: »IMO, this is so messed up... I just can't see random squad like this. I think that it's important to agree before run, who'll do what and what will be the pick order, to avoid situations like "but I healed during 3rd boss a little!". Fair order always depends on function or COSTS of every squad member. It's all about using brain before you start TT. For me, it's always obvious that in 2 cler squad I have to know who's the main healer. And if both clerics wants to heal in 1-2, 1-3, 2-1, then I just leave squad. Not worth squaing with that kind of people, who cut their own costs and still demand 2nd or 3rd pick, that's simply not fair.
actually my example isnt a weird 3-2 squad, its kinda a normal 3-2 squad and i used every class in there to show what every class can do in there and what they cant, and since a veno cant tank the whole thing, neither a barb can tank the whole, neither the archer can tank the whole thing unless they are op, you have to switch roles to make it more efficient.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Soul Banisher needs 2 clerics. Or a herc veno and a cleric. His physical AOE is big enough to hit the person healing the tank, and can 1-shot most squishies. So that healer needs a cleric to BB and/or heal them.
Not that I agree with the tank > healer > DD pick order. By that logic, if my veno's herc is tanking and I'm tossing in the occasional nuke or Amp, I should get 1st, 2nd, and 3rd pick.
Or just have the one cleric use BB duuuhhhrrrp. Do you use 2 clerics for drum because his AOE hits your IHing cleric too hard b:laugh?
I can't think of a single boss in the 1-x or 2-x levels of TT that you need 2 clerics for besides 2-3 Ancient Evil, and Ape, if you don't have a veno(don't do ape with no veno...). Before someone says it, you don't need 2 clerics for Wurlord.
If you want the 1st 3 picks go solo TT.
Tank gets 1st pick because he has the highest repair/charm/hp food costs. Cleric because the run is impossible without one most of the time (their MP costs really aren't anything special...), and DDs get last because there are 7 classes that can fill the role and only 4 spots b:surrender You might take 20 minutes to find a barb, or a cleric, but a sin will be tripping all over himself to get in the squad the moment a BM/wiz/archer/veno decides not to go because they don't like their pick order.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot0 -
1st rule of TT
never ever run TT without a deal who is doing what.0 -
StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »That was sarcasm, by the way, and you probably dont go on the forums that much (post count, and that you didnt really get the context) cuz there are so many QQcleric threads about how theyre mistreated and then get revenge on everybody they meet because a BM in the past has annoyed the cleric in a FB39, he ran into a group of mobs and died and flamed the cleric, obviously all BMs are like this.
..
I check the forums all the time. I don't post often, but I do check around here and there. Mostly here and the screenshots. Also, I was replying with sarcasm at first but then I did a quick srsbsnss reply. b:surrender
QQ is overrated for clerics anyhoo. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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>.<.....when i read the post my eyes went first to
-why the cleric took BB down at soul (they need to leave it up regardless deaths)
-why they all skipped and ran past the mobs (i use to demand my squad to kill them in case things like this happen)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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If your tank is uncharmed and closer to 70 you need 2 clerics for clone boss in 2-1, his phy attacks hit for like, 2.5k+ and his magic attack will completely **** you if you don't cancel it.Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »Or just have the one cleric use BB duuuhhhrrrp. Do you use 2 clerics for drum because his AOE hits your IHing cleric too hard b:laugh?
I can't think of a single boss in the 1-x or 2-x levels of TT that you need 2 clerics for besides 2-3 Ancient Evil, and Ape, if you don't have a veno(don't do ape with no veno...). Before someone says it, you don't need 2 clerics for Wurlord.
If you want the 1st 3 picks go solo TT.
Tank gets 1st pick because he has the highest repair/charm/hp food costs. Cleric because the run is impossible without one most of the time (their MP costs really aren't anything special...), and DDs get last because there are 7 classes that can fill the role and only 4 spots b:surrender You might take 20 minutes to find a barb, or a cleric, but a sin will be tripping all over himself to get in the squad the moment a BM/wiz/archer/veno decides not to go because they don't like their pick order.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »>.<.....when i read the post my eyes went first to
-why the cleric took BB down at soul (they need to leave it up regardless deaths)
-why they all skipped and ran past the mobs (i use to demand my squad to kill them in case things like this happen)
Yeah.. I asked her why she took her BB down, and she said she didn't want me to lose exp. I was all like " b:shocked Now you've made it worse."[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »If your tank is uncharmed and closer to 70 you need 2 clerics for clone boss in 2-1, his phy attacks hit for like, 2.5k+ and his magic attack will completely **** you if you don't cancel it.
ToP, Invoke, HP food, Wiz heals, Myriad, Solid shield... I could go on.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot0 -
You don't... loose more EXP when you get rest AFTER the boss dies... I've seen many Clerics would stop to res people in TT. Common sense dictates that the #1 job of Cleric in a squad, if is the only cleric, is to keep self alive at all cost. If you are the second Cleric, keep tank alive at all cost (ie. if Cleric and tank both dying, you keep healing the tank).
In general, Cleric dies=Tank dies=party dies. Sorry, just have to rant about it here since I've seen it happen so many times even in FB/BH where the tank is tanking 6 mobs and the dead DD didn't need the kill counts.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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could use Apoc pots, but thats kind of a waste.
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1. In such a case, the cleric who BB's should have asked if tank could hold boss while rezzing. Or she could have left BB up and rezzed you after, cause mostly its for drops not the crappy exp...
2. No matter who dies or not, the cleric who does BB gets pick right after the tank. No matter what lvl they are. Their charms burn more using BB.
In this case, the tank was imo completely wrong. It doesn't matter what lvl they are, if the cleric BB's/heals the most, they get to pick before DD's.
Any random barb that does that in our TT's gets blacklisted. If my cleric BB's and the tank puts me last for whatever reason, i'll tell him to sod off and blacklist that wanker.
As for "their MP costs really aren't anything special..." , what kind of bullcrap is that ? So, the tanks repair cost is nothing special as well then ....
The unspoken rule is simple. Tank - cleric - DD. Cleric comes second because of their charm costs and because they are needed. If the second cleric BB's , he/she gets in on the drops after tank. And lvl doesn't matter. But oc you had , yet another, arrogant tank who decides what is best. the lest he could do is ask everyones opinion.
And tanks that think they can decide on my behalf are immediately blacklisted. Lucky i almost never meet selfish idiots.0 -
Out of everything you said, "Wanker" made me giggle. Ahhh my mood is better. b:laugh [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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I agree with a previous poster that pick order should be handled before doing the run. I can sympathyze with the fact sometimes the lower level DDs don't want to bring it up because they may feel they'll be left out of the run if they "push their luck", but good players shouldn't be upset abut this being brought up.
Now, Tank-Healer-DD is not based upon cost (otherwise the healer would get 1st pick) only justified as such. Since barbs are the hardest class to find they're enticed by receiving first pick, all there is to it, really. BMs can do the job most of the time, just find someone higher level, but a lot of squads these days are afraid to even try anything but the exact way they have done the run before...
In the OP's case i think the veno was justified in getting 3rd pick since she had to step in and handle Soul. Meaning at least in part she took on the role of tanker.
Now, i don't agree someone should get a pick just because of their class. If you're using the (terribly flawed) system of Tank-Healer-DD then the second cleric should be counted as DD unless he/she was necessary or vital.
As for venos, if an herc'ed veno tanks all the bosses she should at the very least get the first couple of picks and the mirages. She's basically just doing the squad a favor as she handled all the hard work, the least you can do is show gratitude. If veno only handles some bosses then it depends. I would be for giving her third pick regardless of the number of clerics needed.0 -
@Manray
We were both pretty important to the tank.. He could hardly survive with one cleric. I had control of IH and she had the one insta-heal spell goin' on. We'd take turns on BB: She starts BB, runs out of mana, I'll take over the BB.
It wasn't much to be concerned about, we were just in a sudden, short state of WTF-flu. b:surrender
Oh I forgot to mention. The Veno came in in the middle of the TT, invited by the other cleric. So she didn't feel as awkward knowing that her friend got to take her pick for her. (Not saying the Veno gave the item to the Cleric, she'd rather have her Veno friend take her turn that someone else.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Remember to feed your Clerics three meals a day!0
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