Stealth and Cultivation ??

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Comments

  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ^ This...



    As for your Kyoshi said about the skill not working, I havea question and a statement.

    1. If it does not work, why did they bother going through the trouble of updating the skill descrip with something that according to you does not work?

    2. With your logic, my stealth lvl is then 112. Yet they revamped the awareness passive skill so that it no longer gives 20 awareness lvls but 30. So that means, that lvl82s with maxed out awareness can see me. Yet every mid lvl 8x ive encountered with maxed awareness was not able to. Or is that another update they did to the skill descrip for aesthetic purposes only?

    its been know that whenever they change something... something else goes wrong and just stayed that way.

    the only other logical way is that each cult level gives 1 awareness.

    Your Stealth lvl:
    lvl 92 + 20 (catlike thread) +10 (shadow escape) = 122
    Your Friend's Awareness lvl:
    lvl 100 + 20 (detection potion) + 10 (cult) = 130

    While in my case... it would be:
    lvl 101 + 20 (pot) + 11 (cult) = 132
    131 (my awareness) - 20 (catlike) - 10 (stealth) = 102
    which would mean i can see any sin up to level 102... sadly there is no 102 sin that i know of who can test this out.

    without pot:
    lvl 101 + 11 (cult) = 112
    121 (my awareness) - 20 (cat) - 10 (stealth) = 82
    so to prove this point right... i should be able to see a 82 sin with max everything without pot.



    and furthermore... assuming each cult gives 2 awareness.
    101 + 22 (cult) = 123
    123 (awareness) - 20 (cat) - 10 (stealth) = 93.
    which would mean i should be able to see a 93 sin without pot... which is not the case.


    while that good and all... its easier to just assume stealth does not give extra awareness (in my case).
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ...i have posted a few times on this already...

    cultivation does not effect stealth level. stealth level is determined by player level, stealth skill level, and cat like tread. a maxed asssassin has Plvl + 30.

    2 assassins of the same level with max skills will both see each other. if one of them is 1 level higher than the other, the higher level will see the lower but the lower will not see the higher(without using a stealth detection potion)

    currently the highest level player in the game is 102. a 93 assassin, with maxed skills, can ONLY be seen by other assassins of equal level or assassins up to 20 levels lower with a stealth detection potion.
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Swaze - Sanctuary
    Swaze - Sanctuary Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    its been know that whenever they change something... something else goes wrong and just stayed that way.

    the only other logical way is that each cult level gives 1 awareness.

    Your Stealth lvl:
    lvl 92 + 20 (catlike thread) +10 (shadow escape) = 122
    Your Friend's Awareness lvl:
    lvl 100 + 20 (detection potion) + 10 (cult) = 130

    While in my case... it would be:
    lvl 101 + 20 (pot) + 11 (cult) = 132
    131 (my awareness) - 20 (catlike) - 10 (stealth) = 102
    which would mean i can see any sin up to level 102... sadly there is no 102 sin that i know of who can test this out.

    without pot:
    lvl 101 + 11 (cult) = 112
    121 (my awareness) - 20 (cat) - 10 (stealth) = 82
    so to prove this point right... i should be able to see a 82 sin with max everything without pot.



    and furthermore... assuming each cult gives 2 awareness.
    101 + 22 (cult) = 123
    123 (awareness) - 20 (cat) - 10 (stealth) = 93.
    which would mean i should be able to see a 93 sin without pot... which is not the case.


    while that good and all... its easier to just assume stealth does not give extra awareness (in my case).

    See, having assumptions about how much stealth bonus you get from culti lvl is all fine and dandy, but honestly, I would like to have solid literature or a GM to confirm or state exactly how the culti effects the system. Many have inquired about the stealth system and the GMs responded. They responded through the pots description (see SS on my OP) and by updating the skill descrip. So, I hope they will answer us on this now.
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    currently the highest level player in the game is 102. a 93 assassin, with maxed skills, can ONLY be seen by other assassins of equal level or assassins up to 20 levels lower with a stealth detection potion.

    See , this was my thought process as well, until my lvl100 buddy was able to spot me with pots and bash me away >.> (hence this thread was made.


    As a side note: to whoever asked, the answer is NO i was not in squad with that person b:cute
    1st sage assassin in sanctuary. That's right, I jumped in with my eyes half closed. b:cute
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm going to go with my own theory and say that it's all based on a random number generator.

    b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    See, having assumptions about how much stealth bonus you get from culti lvl is all fine and dandy, but honestly, I would like to have solid literature or a GM to confirm or state exactly how the culti effects the system. Many have inquired about the stealth system and the GMs responded. They responded through the pots description (see SS on my OP) and by updating the skill descrip. So, I hope they will answer us on this now.



    See , this was my thought process as well, until my lvl100 buddy was able to spot me with pots and bash me away >.> (hence this thread was made.


    As a side note: to whoever asked, the answer is NO i was not in squad with that person b:cute

    hmm.... interesting. perhaps they put a hardcap on stealth levels to 105 so that anyone 85+ would see you with a pot? maybe try finding a 85/86 player and testing it....

    another possibility is the pot gives +30 levels detection and they didnt update the notes on it to say so
    try getting a 92 player to test on your character for this. see if they see you or not
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I'm going to go with my own theory and say that it's all based on a random number generator.

    b:chuckle

    PW tosses a coin, if heads, they can see you. b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    PW tosses a coin, if heads, they can see you. b:bye

    If tails, deal 3 damage to target permanent.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Skill descriptions are frequently wrong. When genie skills were revamped/nerfed, Blinding Sand was changed to say it decreases accuracy, attack speed, and channel speed. When I tested it, it no longer decreases accuracy. They still haven't fixed the description.

    As for whether cultivation affects ability to see through stealth, it seems like it would be simple enough to test. Test it with someone who is level x9 and hasn't done their culti, who should theoretically just barely be unable to see you. Then let them complete their cultivation and test it again.
  • Shade - Raging Tide
    Shade - Raging Tide Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    An interesting conundrum we have hear, and one which I am sadly no longer qualified to comment on since I haven't played my sin in like a month and a half and apparently a few things have changed. However back in the day after release me and a few friends (sins and non-sins) did some research and positively proved that (at the time) stealth worked like this:

    Your lvl + your stealth skill lvl (shadow walk/escape) + cat-like tread

    Thus

    if you are lvl 80 and you use shadow walk 5 with cat-like 5 someone would have to be lvl 95+ to see you (no awareness pots)

    However I've been out of the assassin game too long to be able comment positively on these circumstances since apparently some things have changed (plus no faction on RT owns RTC so I've never gotten to experiment with awareness pots) The only thing I can think of is that you and your friend were partied at the time, otherwhise there is some bug/wrong skill description somewhere...
  • SilentReaper - Harshlands
    SilentReaper - Harshlands Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Has no one bothered to think about that maybe the description on the pot is incorrect?
    Shadow walk and shadow escape do indeed add to your stealth level, me and many other sins have tested it even before the skill description was updated, which only confirmed that when you have a maxed passive, and maxed stealth skills, you get +30 stealth level.

    Now... since we can all agree that descriptions on PWI are frequently inaccurate, how about we assume it's the pot that has the wrong description?
    An assassin's passive awareness skill increases their awareness by 30.
    So maybe the pot does the same thing? Keep in mind, the awareness passive used to say 20 as well. So maybe they changed the pot to +30 awareness too, but forgot to update the description.

    That's the only logical explanation I can think of for this.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Never trust skill descriptions.

    Don't count on GMs to know how their game works.

    Test things and confirm them in game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This whole thing is fishy.
    Hopefully it has something to do with cultivation, otherwise...
    It would suck if awareness pots add 30 instead of 20...
    That means a sin's stealth will always be able to be negated with the pots, even when he or she has everything maxed out :c, lowering their power and utility considerably.
  • SilentReaper - Harshlands
    SilentReaper - Harshlands Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    This whole thing is fishy.
    Hopefully it has something to do with cultivation, otherwise...
    It would suck if awareness pots add 30 instead of 20...
    That means a sin's stealth will always be able to be negated with the pots, even when he or she has everything maxed out :c, lowering their power and utility considerably.

    When you take into account how overpowered stealth is in the first place (people QQ about it constantly), and the fact that you need to control the City of Raging Tides to have access to this pot, I think it sounds pretty fair for it to 'negate' stealth in the same way assassins can already do with their passives.
  • RADD_RATT - Harshlands
    RADD_RATT - Harshlands Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    SilentReaper - Harshlands wrote: »
    Has no one bothered to think about that maybe the description on the pot is incorrect?
    Shadow walk and shadow escape do indeed add to your stealth level, me and many other sins have tested it even before the skill description was updated, which only confirmed that when you have a maxed passive, and maxed stealth skills, you get +30 stealth level.

    Now... since we can all agree that descriptions on PWI are frequently inaccurate, how about we assume it's the pot that has the wrong description?
    An assassin's passive awareness skill increases their awareness by 30.
    So maybe the pot does the same thing? Keep in mind, the awareness passive used to say 20 as well. So maybe they changed the pot to +30 awareness too, but forgot to update the description.

    That's the only logical explanation I can think of for this.

    that is EXACTLY what i was going to post. as im reading the first 4 pages thinknin that in my head the entire time im glad to see im not the only one thinkning this way.

    and please people, dont argue with sins and stealth...we know more then you. shadow walk and shadow escape do give you an extra stealth lvl per skill lvl as long as thats the skill you used when going into stealth. i have tested this over and over again. and cat like TREAD <---whith no "H"....gives you another 20. so you can stealth to 30 lvls over youre head.

    i agree 100% witht he fact that when they changed the passive awearness skill form 20 to 30 they probly also changed the pot and didnt mention bother to fix it. had it been a cash shop item or any hting that would stop them from making money it would have been fixed the first time someone pointed it out.
  • Xwolfyx - Harshlands
    Xwolfyx - Harshlands Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    um where can i get 1 of these pots?
  • RADD_RATT - Harshlands
    RADD_RATT - Harshlands Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Xwolfyx - Harshlands wrote: »
    um where can i get 1 of these pots?

    youre gunna have to beg zulu to sell some to you. as they can only be made by members of the giuld holding the tide born land
  • Xwolfyx - Harshlands
    Xwolfyx - Harshlands Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »
    youre gunna have to beg zulu to sell some to you. as they can only be made by members of the giuld holding the tide born land

    oh well nvm then useless

    EDIT:noobish my old guild held the TB land for a week to QQ why didnt it come out then QQ i would stocked up lots QQ
  • Nukesrus - Harshlands
    Nukesrus - Harshlands Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I wonder if PWI's solution was the balance the sins by capping potential stealth levels at 105?

    If so, anyone level 86+ with stealth pots can see any sin.

    Someone test this and confirm?
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I have 16 from cat-like and supposedly 7 from shadow walk.

    71+16=87
    71+16+7=94

    Here are my results.

    87 - Can't see me
    90 - Can't see me

    I was unable to find more ppl to test it out but this shows that my stealth level isn't just from my level and cat like tread. Maybe the description on the stealth pot is wrong?
  • Sangodoc - Dreamweaver
    Sangodoc - Dreamweaver Posts: 501 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Me (lvl92) v Friend (lvl100)

    My Stealth lvl:

    lvl 92 + 20 (catlike thread) +10 (shadow escape) = 122

    Friend's Awareness lvl:

    lvl 100 + 20 (detection potion) = 120

    detectionpotion.jpg

    So logic says, with pots he cant be able to see me right??
    Er... Not exactly. You don't know what his "detection skill level" is to begin with, you're just assuming that it's zero, and that the pot adds 20. If your friend's normal "detection skill level" is 2 or better, then that explains everything. Note also that the pot says that it increases the level by 20, rather than saying that it becomes 20.

    Of course, then one wonders what your default "detection skill level" is based on... b:puzzled
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm thinking that if the Culti level does matter, maybe it is what determinates detection level. Say one culti = x level, someone with Aware of Vacuity would have the +20 detection level frm the pots + x detection level from the Culti.
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i'll run some tests on this today. my guild has control of raging tides so i can make some pots and i'll find someone to test if the pot was given 30 or not


    ok so i just tested this out.

    my sin is 61 with 5 levels of cat-like tread and 8 levels of shadow walk
    61 + 10 + 8 =79

    first subject was a 58 veno. veno could not see me alone (obviously). if the pot was correct, he should still not be able to see me
    58 + 20 = 78
    78 < 79

    after using the pot this veno was able to see me however, supporting that the pot did give 30 levels.

    a 44 veno could not see me before nor after using the pot
    44 + 20 = 64
    44 + 30 = 74
    both are < 79

    at 78 could not see me. a 79 player could.
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • SilentReaper - Harshlands
    SilentReaper - Harshlands Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    i'll run some tests on this today. my guild has control of raging tides so i can make some pots and i'll find someone to test if the pot was given 30 or not


    ok so i just tested this out.

    my sin is 61 with 5 levels of cat-like tread and 8 levels of shadow walk
    61 + 10 + 8 =79

    first subject was a 58 veno. veno could not see me alone (obviously). if the pot was correct, he should still not be able to see me
    58 + 20 = 78
    78 < 79

    after using the pot this veno was able to see me however, supporting that the pot did give 30 levels.

    a 44 veno could not see me before nor after using the pot
    44 + 20 = 64
    44 + 30 = 74
    both are < 79

    at 78 could not see me. a 79 player could.

    I love it when I'm right b:laugh
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    SilentReaper - Harshlands wrote: »
    I love it when I'm right b:laugh

    i had said that's likely what they did earlier in the thread. i didnt have time to test until earlier today
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • sheiol
    sheiol Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Made some tests today.
    Im lvl 91, maxed all stealth skills so +30, haven't chosen my culti yet, prefer wait and see sage/demon bonus.
    Tested with a freind BM lvl 98 culti 89 done Of course b:chuckle

    Me 91+30 = 121
    Him 98+20 = 118 .. and he sees me ..

    So

    1- Some of you are right and apoth went from 20 to 30 like Sharp observer, unupdated descrip on apoth and then it sucks, not only a Sin pot but any high lvl able to ruin a great skill.

    OR

    2- Culti does inc awereness and things stay balanced.

    Cause after all, those apoth are mostly made for the Great Sin war that we (Sins) all expect soon to come b:pleased
  • Swaze - Sanctuary
    Swaze - Sanctuary Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Was contacted by GM yesterday and was told there is no problem. As vague as that answer is, there's not much we can do about it because...well im assuming nothing will get done.

    One truth holds as it is now, if the user is higher lvl than you, get ready to be seen. Personally I don't mind, they last only 30 seconds, the icon is very recognizable and maybe it will null some of the endless QQing of OP-ness
    1st sage assassin in sanctuary. That's right, I jumped in with my eyes half closed. b:cute
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Hello!

    I was testing out the Detection Potions yesterday ( the awareness pots that assist in seeing assassins) and I have come up with some discrepancies.

    Me (lvl92) v Friend (lvl100)

    My Stealth lvl:

    lvl 92 + 20 (catlike thread) +10 (shadow escape) = 122

    Friend's Awareness lvl:

    lvl 100 + 20 (detection potion) = 120

    detectionpotion.jpg

    So logic says, with pots he cant be able to see me right??

    Wrong. He had no problem seeing me. After discussing this with my other friend, we came to the conclusion that it might have something to do with cultivation lvls?

    Does cultivation lvls affect awareness?? Or stealth??

    If a GM or someone with actual literature on this matter can answer that would be awesome..

    (and speaking of culti...how about some skills??? so I can get back to heaven or hell >.<)

    Are you sure that the Stealth bonuses stack? Also, at least Ecatomb is not listing any +Stealth on Shadow Escape.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.

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