Shadow Escape

nope...no problems. i never botheres to use it when i didnt have agro. but i now i know how it works. ive seen some of your other posts and you seem smarter then 90% of the forum tards. so ill take your word on it. thanks for the info. sin for the win!

ya sort of like how when other classes DD and wait for a bit.
If they attack as soon as the barb takes it, there be residual aggro still left since you has dealt damage me suppose.

so instead of a complete reset it be more of an aggro shifting tool?
o.O

huh so you has to be actually targetted by the target to induce a total aggro wipe?
O.o'

aw if it wasn't then that could have given insane potential for assassins as DDs.
b:surrender
me suppose possible but dangerous
>.<'

I don't think you have to be the target to wipe agro. More often than not I can steal agro simply by hitting attack and doing nothing else. I've also had instances where I've just done regular hits until half health, force stealthed, then spark,genie crit,+crit damage skill and never got hate on me at all.

Some people may think hate doesn't reset when they force stealth and die anyway, but as long as the mob started a move on you before you went into hide mode, it will still take affect. After that though you won't be targeted unless it can still see you, or aoes on a party member.

Edit: If anyone has proof or more information on stealth skills please post.

It's not a total aggro wipe. Stealth is more or a less a pk skill not an aggro control skill, turning invisible means that the mobs can no longer see or target you, once you come out you're still able to take back aggro again.

If you want to better your aggro management, use chill of the deep or a bow, or even both.

ive tried it a few times myself.. when ive critted a chain of times n anticipated i'd get aggro.. i use SE. however when i start attacking again i'd still get aggro. so i dont think it even wipes aggro off when u use SE without getting targetted by the boss first.

tried this like 6-7times and got the same results each time. i'm always pulling aggro with normal attacks, without sparks/skills.. even though i wait til boss is 3/4 hp n i'm also DDing without rings n dominance blessing.. it's getting really annoying..

really hope DEVs would come up with some skills that allows us to wipe off aggro.. otherwise, we wouldnt be able to utilize the full potential of our dps.

its really a pain just watching n anticipating when the boss is going to turn to u.

OK, seems to be some confusion so once again, I have spent the last few bh's testing this. It was by no means a government funded test, but I think I can safely say how forcing stealth in a party works for bosses. The below results are from a single instance, however, I have done this multiple times with the same results. Also, let it be known that I have highly refined daggers and am a pure dex build. Not even the best tanks can keep aggro from me if I want to take it. Not trying to sound cocky, just the way it is.

First off, testing using shadow escape prior to having aggro failed. Heres what I did. Attacked boss (Pole), sparked and critted like mad. I felt I would get aggro soon, so I forced stealth prior to the boss aggroing me. I came out of stealth and attacked. My first 2 hits were crits and the boss turned to me. In this case, there is no way that forcing stealth worked. Since I already forced stealth, the cd was not up and at this point, I am in danger. Fortunatly the barb was able to take it back and all was good. I had to limit my damage the rest of the fight. This is one example of several (probably about 5 times) where this didnt work.

Second senario - forcing stealth while I have aggro. Again, one example of many, always the same results. The boss this time was Nob. I get aggro about 1/4 into the fight. I force stealth taking one hit, barb gets control. Now I go off, double spark, wolf emblem and relentless courage. Remember, I had just taken aggro, so in theory, my aggro lvl should be right behind the barbs. My first hit is a crit with Rib Stike, then 4 straight normal crits. In less then 5 seconds I did about 100k damage, yet I did not get aggro. In fact, for the rest of the fight I am inflicting as much damage as I could and I never got aggro back.

So, my theory is that shadow escape while having aggro will reset it to 0. Shadow escape without having aggro does nothing. Save shadow escape for when you pull aggro. In fact, I typically try to steal aggro at about 1/2 health, maybe a little sooner. Force stealth and go off. Not once have I gotten aggro back doing this.

Also remember that this will not work with ? bosses or bosses higher then your stealth lvl. But when done properly, it is a very safe aggro management tool. I did die once because of this, but I was not paying attention at the time. Other then that, it has been 100% effective.

panda119 wrote: »

its really a pain just watching n anticipating when the boss is going to turn to u.

This is true, and you always have the same option that other DD's have, which is to gimp yourself and never take aggro. My main was an archer and TBH, I am tired of doing this. I am a DD and I want to do as much damage as I can without causing trouble for the party. We have a skill that can accomplish this and it is very effective if used properly.

My hope is that sins will realize this and use it so people can recognize our potential. Pull aggro, then wipe hate. Very cool skill and I know that wizzies, psys and archers would love this ability. But you got to be fast, as soon as the boss turns, hit SE. I typically will get behind the boss or in a position that I can easily see the boss turn to me, not to another DD. Plus, after you wipe aggro, you can DD like a mad man, or woman, without worry of taking hate. This makes the sin one of the safest DD classes to play IMO.

D/S - Heavens Tear wrote: »

OK, seems to be some confusion so once again, I have spent the last few bh's testing this. It was by no means a government funded test, but I think I can safely say how forcing stealth in a party works for bosses. The below results are from a single instance, however, I have done this multiple times with the same results. Also, let it be known that I have highly refined daggers and am a pure dex build. Not even the best tanks can keep aggro from me if I want to take it. Not trying to sound cocky, just the way it is.

First off, testing using shadow escape prior to having aggro failed. Heres what I did. Attacked boss (Pole), sparked and critted like mad. I felt I would get aggro soon, so I forced stealth prior to the boss aggroing me. I came out of stealth and attacked. My first 2 hits were crits and the boss turned to me. In this case, there is no way that forcing stealth worked. Since I already forced stealth, the cd was not up and at this point, I am in danger. Fortunatly the barb was able to take it back and all was good. I had to limit my damage the rest of the fight. This is one example of several (probably about 5 times) where this didnt work.

Second senario - forcing stealth while I have aggro. Again, one example of many, always the same results. The boss this time was Nob. I get aggro about 1/4 into the fight. I force stealth taking one hit, barb gets control. Now I go off, double spark, wolf emblem and relentless courage. Remember, I had just taken aggro, so in theory, my aggro lvl should be right behind the barbs. My first hit is a crit with Rib Stike, then 4 straight normal crits. In less then 5 seconds I did about 100k damage, yet I did not get aggro. In fact, for the rest of the fight I am inflicting as much damage as I could and I never got aggro back.

So, my theory is that shadow escape while having aggro will reset it to 0. Shadow escape without having aggro does nothing. Save shadow escape for when you pull aggro. In fact, I typically try to steal aggro at about 1/2 health, maybe a little sooner. Force stealth and go off. Not once have I gotten aggro back doing this.

Also remember that this will not work with ? bosses or bosses higher then your stealth lvl. But when done properly, it is a very safe aggro management tool. I did die once because of this, but I was not paying attention at the time. Other then that, it has been 100% effective.

I have found this to be true with my 'sin. Although mine isn't as high leveled as you, I've done many instance runs, and have found that this is the way it works as well.



My only gripe with this is, most 'sins just attack attack attack, and don't know/realize when to SE. And it leaves the rest of the squad wondering what's happening, and throws them off. If a 'sin were to squad with people, they should let others know what they plan to do (attack until aggro, SE to lose aggro and allow it to reset to 0 for them and the barb/tank get aggro back, so that they can DD til their faces turn blue), so that everyone can be ready and understand what to do when this happens. As a cleric, I don't expect people to be competent, so I always assume, unless told differently at first, that if the sin takes dmg, they won't know how to handle it efficiently, so I heal them when I can, until the tank gets aggro back.


Communication is key, especially for the damage output capability with 'sins.



b:victory

D/S - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well put Nexdonum, I agree with communication being important. Soon, this will become common knowledge. Until then, it's up to us to keep the squad informed. However, I have had trouble with this. I would tell the squad that if I take aggro, dont heal me cuz I will SE and wipe the aggro. A lot of times the responce I get is "you wont take aggro" or "if you take aggro, I wont try to save you" and all kinds of BS. So I stopped telling them and just do it. I make sure to SE ASAP and havent had any problems so far.

I partied with a sin the other night who didn't know about the SE trick. He waited for a good 1-2 minutes before attacking. He ended up taking aggro and ran. The cleric was hit with Pole's AOE and died, the barb died saving the rest so they could jump in the water, it was a mess.

This works. Use SE when you get aggro, tell others to use it and maybe sins will start to get a good name for ourselves.

Well, there are a lot of idiots out there, so we may have to be blatant about it. "I'm gonna take aggro from you at one point (yes even you barbs), but don't worry, I planned that. I'm gonna use a skill that will be awesome, and you don't need to do anything different than your original job. Tank will get it back. Don't do anything different."

Hopefully with saying something like that at the beginning, people will either get it (doubtful), or they will be pissed off enough to not attempt to help you, which is a win/win situation.


b:victory