la or aa at 90
ok my mage is on a pvp server (harshlands) and just ding 88. this isnt about sage/demon, its about armor choice at 90. here are a few questions i havent been able to get straight answers on ingame since everyones too heavily buried in one camp or the other like "la sucks" or "aa sucks" with no reason for saying either.
1. why do a lot of ppl who like la say "ya but everyone goes aa at 90+". what changes at 90+? does acrobatic, the hh90 aa green set, have dramatically more base pdef than the level 80 armors? in other words why do some think being 90 makes a huge difference?
2. are same-lvl BMs and archers with at least decent gear, really hard fights for aa? ive been la so far and had trouble with neither. archers are easy kills, some bm i cant kill if theyre charmed but i can still take a lot of hits and live. be straight here, i know all the level 100+ aa's with +6 refined armor are going to chime in with "lol i 1hit most archers my lvl and they barely scratch me", but thats not realistic. no offense but being level 100+ with +6 well-sharded armor can make up for lack of talent as well as bad matchups like heavy-hitting archers.
3. what are the advantages of EACH? my naive take on it is aa is better for tw when you have other people taking hits and youre just flooding a large battlefield with aoe's, while la is better for a lot of solo fights since you match up better against most classes. correct me if i'm wrong or missing anything which i probably am.
4. i see a lot of aa trying to compare pdef/hp with la, unfortunately its usually aa with high refine / immaculate or higher shards, trying to compare with la with low refine / flawless shards. which really has better stats FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF COIN invested (say like... +4 armor with immac shards only or something). and which shards does each use anyway? if aa use pdef shards they can get similar pdef to la, but i would think their hp count would be low. as for la they can get really high hp count if they go straight hp but would it be worth using a few pdef shards?
5. any other notes. i know a lot depends on gear and a lot depends on skill. for the sake of discussion im trying to compare with DECENT gear and DECENT skill, not exceptional. i know la mages who cash shop up to 20% crit rate and +10 weapons will hit harder than most aa. i know aa mages who cash shop their armor will have 20k pdef and high hp. these facts are irrelevant to me since i have the money but not the inclination to spend that much on a game - dont get me wrong i spend some but burning paycheck after paycheck isnt how i'd like to do business b:cute
thx all.
1. why do a lot of ppl who like la say "ya but everyone goes aa at 90+". what changes at 90+? does acrobatic, the hh90 aa green set, have dramatically more base pdef than the level 80 armors? in other words why do some think being 90 makes a huge difference?
2. are same-lvl BMs and archers with at least decent gear, really hard fights for aa? ive been la so far and had trouble with neither. archers are easy kills, some bm i cant kill if theyre charmed but i can still take a lot of hits and live. be straight here, i know all the level 100+ aa's with +6 refined armor are going to chime in with "lol i 1hit most archers my lvl and they barely scratch me", but thats not realistic. no offense but being level 100+ with +6 well-sharded armor can make up for lack of talent as well as bad matchups like heavy-hitting archers.
3. what are the advantages of EACH? my naive take on it is aa is better for tw when you have other people taking hits and youre just flooding a large battlefield with aoe's, while la is better for a lot of solo fights since you match up better against most classes. correct me if i'm wrong or missing anything which i probably am.
4. i see a lot of aa trying to compare pdef/hp with la, unfortunately its usually aa with high refine / immaculate or higher shards, trying to compare with la with low refine / flawless shards. which really has better stats FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF COIN invested (say like... +4 armor with immac shards only or something). and which shards does each use anyway? if aa use pdef shards they can get similar pdef to la, but i would think their hp count would be low. as for la they can get really high hp count if they go straight hp but would it be worth using a few pdef shards?
5. any other notes. i know a lot depends on gear and a lot depends on skill. for the sake of discussion im trying to compare with DECENT gear and DECENT skill, not exceptional. i know la mages who cash shop up to 20% crit rate and +10 weapons will hit harder than most aa. i know aa mages who cash shop their armor will have 20k pdef and high hp. these facts are irrelevant to me since i have the money but not the inclination to spend that much on a game - dont get me wrong i spend some but burning paycheck after paycheck isnt how i'd like to do business b:cute
thx all.
Post edited by geniez01 on
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Comments
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ok my mage is on a pvp server (harshlands) and just ding 88. this isnt about sage/demon, its about armor choice at 90. here are a few questions i havent been able to get straight answers on ingame since everyones too heavily buried in one camp or the other like "la sucks" or "aa sucks" with no reason for saying either.
1. why do a lot of ppl who like la say "ya but everyone goes aa at 90+". what changes at 90+? does acrobatic, the hh90 aa green set, have dramatically more base pdef than the level 80 armors? in other words why do some think being 90 makes a huge difference?
2. are same-lvl BMs and archers with at least decent gear, really hard fights for aa? ive been la so far and had trouble with neither. archers are easy kills, some bm i cant kill if theyre charmed but i can still take a lot of hits and live. be straight here, i know all the level 100+ aa's with +6 refined armor are going to chime in with "lol i 1hit most archers my lvl and they barely scratch me", but thats not realistic. no offense but being level 100+ with +6 well-sharded armor can make up for lack of talent as well as bad matchups like heavy-hitting archers.
3. what are the advantages of EACH? my naive take on it is aa is better for tw when you have other people taking hits and youre just flooding a large battlefield with aoe's, while la is better for a lot of solo fights since you match up better against most classes. correct me if i'm wrong or missing anything which i probably am.
4. i see a lot of aa trying to compare pdef/hp with la, unfortunately its usually aa with high refine / immaculate or higher shards, trying to compare with la with low refine / flawless shards. which really has better stats FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF COIN invested (say like... +4 armor with immac shards only or something). and which shards does each use anyway? if aa use pdef shards they can get similar pdef to la, but i would think their hp count would be low. as for la they can get really high hp count if they go straight hp but would it be worth using a few pdef shards?
5. any other notes. i know a lot depends on gear and a lot depends on skill. for the sake of discussion im trying to compare with DECENT gear and DECENT skill, not exceptional. i know la mages who cash shop up to 20% crit rate and +10 weapons will hit harder than most aa. i know aa mages who cash shop their armor will have 20k pdef and high hp. these facts are irrelevant to me since i have the money but not the inclination to spend that much on a game - dont get me wrong i spend some but burning paycheck after paycheck isnt how i'd like to do business b:cute
thx all.
Read this and make decision.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=580421[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
excellent link, idk how i missed finding that in the past.
from the looks of it, it is definitely not a no-brainer "duh everyone goes aa." if anything i'm more inclined to go with la. the survivability increase beats out the damage decrease in my book, not to mention la seems to be significantly better if we're looking at the same coin input for each. tired of arcanes with +6 / gem'd armor talking about their pdef compared to light armors using +3 / flawless. la seems way more cost efficient.
also i am the original poster i cant figure out avatars on these forums ijs0 -
Downupreduc - Harshlands wrote: »excellent link, idk how i missed finding that in the past.
from the looks of it, it is definitely not a no-brainer "duh everyone goes aa." if anything i'm more inclined to go with la. the survivability increase beats out the damage decrease in my book, not to mention la seems to be significantly better if we're looking at the same coin input for each. tired of arcanes with +6 / gem'd armor talking about their pdef compared to light armors using +3 / flawless. la seems way more cost efficient.
also i am the original poster i cant figure out avatars on these forums ijs
That link is very biased.. and incomplete. arcane has more survivability (higher of BOTH defenses.. and depending how you stat/gear more hp as well) and ofc more damage. The problem is that LA takes up lots more stats (that arcane can translate into damage or hp).. and being that both defenses are low.. you need to split your ornaments between pdef/mdef for LA.. and end up with both of them being lower than arcane.
There are only 2 reasons to consider LA...
1. extra 4-5% crit
2. ability to use -channeling ornaments while still having some trace of pdef
I personally think the survivability and damage is better than a little crit/possibility of -channeling, but anyone claiming LA has more survivability than arcane is just stupid.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
Nothing wrong with LA, it's a fun build. I know a freind who's lvl 100 and LA, has something like 26%(?) crit. And pretty decent defences.
But arcane isn't really hard to make it work with all the current event gear and what not. A crit from a arcane hurts alot more then one from a LA. You can essentially have more pdef with sheild then you do mdef, with decent refines.0 -
Adroit - which numbers exactly are you disputing? i don't see how numbers for numbers' sake can be "biased." incomplete, sure, because it would take forever to test every piece of gear / shard setup possible. granted arcane has higher m.def, no one is doubting that. if you shard p.def on arcanes, you can get up to light armor level of p.def, but then the light armor user is going to have HP shards -> more hp. if you shard hp on arcanes, then your p.def is going to be **** compared to similar light armor.
use pw calc. find me a setup, with identical shards and refines on all gear, where HH90 or HH99 arcane has better hp AND p.def than the same-level same-refined same-sharded light armor gear. since you can Save / copy / paste pwcalc links, i'd like you to post both of them.
i only saw one actual fact in your post, "extra 4-5%" crit. any light armor mage that only has 4-5% more crit than arcane mages, isn't doing it right. a crit rate of 10% (for example), on avg, increases your damage by 10%. why? double damage 10% of the time, it's straightforward.
you can see from the testing that's been done that arcane outdamages light armor by ~14% at the most, with the same gear. that means that a light armor user with a crit rate 14% higher than an arcane user will deal, on avg, the same damage. perhaps beating an arcane user's crit rate by 14% is unrealistic, but a decently geared LA mage could certainly beat an arcane's crit rate by 5-10% and nearly make up for the damage difference between them. not to mention the huge physical survivability increase.
you might be right. maybe we're all missing something here and you can trade off hp shards and p.def in your armor and paradoxically end up with more hp and p.def like you claim. i'll be waiting for your pwcalc's.
tell you what, i'll save you the trouble. i threw this together in literally 5 minutes. hh99 gear, +6, g8 shards, bunch of other random stuff, with full buffs. the LA has full hp shards, the AA has 2 pdef 2hp shards per equipment.
la: 8155 hp, 74% pdef, 65-67% elements (with protection belt, neck), 14% crit, 7.0-8.9k magic : http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=02ab50bd989ff6d7
aa: 6809 hp, 68% pdef, 74% elements, 8% crit, 8.9-11.3k magic : http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d088a3041323334a
translation, in terms of survivability, especially considering the aa is maxed on p.def while the la can still equip elemental necklace, belt, even a full robe set... the la has at least equal survivability against elements (due to significantly higher hp); and dramatically higher survivability against physical (hp, p.def both higher).
in terms of damage, i don't have time to run the numbers, but if we assume roughly 14% base difference, then the la mage does 8% less damage on average... since the difference between their crit rates is 6%.
sorry to target you in this response Adroit, but your post is riddled with the kind of completely data-unsupported rhetoric i'm tired of hearing about this subject. my agenda is to examine the numbers, not to favor one set over the other. if you set your agenda to the same as mine then maybe you can contribute something substantive. i threw those pwcalc's together in literally 5 mins and i'm not incapable of error, so feel free to play around with it, post your pwcalc links if you find data more favorable to arcanes. it's certainly possible that i'm missing something obvious here, so show me what it is.
also, in your pwcalc's, please restrict yourself to comparing same-refined, same-grade-shard, between LA and AA. there's an arcane i know who has ~20k pdef because he spent a few yachts' worth of money on cash shopping his shards and refines, of course he has more pdef than the average LA mage who's only using +6 gear and g8 shards. LA vs AA can only be decided if you're looking at same refine and same grade shards on both.
but please, don't respond with more of the same "if you know how to shard and refine your gear you can get higher pdef and hp and magic def i don't even know why they allow mages to equip LA lololololo" drivel. there aren't any "secrets" to refining or slotting gear, so if you know of a way to do it better, prove it, don't just allude to claims that have no data behind them. thx.
oh, and for the record, the author of that post is a lifelong robe user, so i'm not sure why you think he's biased in favor of LA. YMMV
a final note: if your solution to the difference in survivability is to take points from magic and put some into vit, two notes of caution. 1) it's a bad tradeoff for mages, only 10hp/vit. 2) you'll be sacrificing what seems to be the only major advantage AA has over LA -- sheer damage. combine that with the fact that LA's easily out-crit arcanes, and you'll find that too many points out of magic could actually render an AA mage's damage WORSE, on average, counting crits for both characters, than the LA mage's.
this should be good. i want to see an arcane with higher p.def, and m.def, and hp, than a light armor mage... while using the same level of refinement and the same grade shards, same ornaments, same level characters (Lv100 works fine). i'll eat my words if you can do it.0 -
Downupreduc - Harshlands wrote: »Block of Text
Holy ****.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=89440abb50afb724
Works like a charm, make sure you take diminishing returns into play.0 -
BrownflameZ - Lost City wrote: »Holy ****.
I thought the exact same, someone has time on their hands jeebus christ0 -
BrownflameZ - Lost City wrote: »Holy ****.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=89440abb50afb724
Works like a charm, make sure you take diminishing returns into play.
you're using perfect shards as well as a different tome. make the equivalent light armor mage using the same shards and same other gear (tome, ornaments), just with LA class armor instead of AA class, i guarantee you'll get more HP and more pdef. nice try though. the fact that you got virtually the same result, while using much stronger shards and different gear, basically proves my point that you can't use the same investment (coin-wise) on refining+shards, and get "more p.def and hp" like many arcanes would like us to believe.
it's like, guess what, HH90 arcane refined +1 with g3 shards can't even tank magic as well as HH90 heavy armor refined +10 with g12 shards, therefore heavy armor wins. what part of "use the same refinement and shards" wasn't clear? i made a point to repeat that phrase at least three times in my wall of text post. i had hoped it would sink in.
and yeah, i promised myself to devote at least 1 hour a day to helping stamp out rumors, superstition, unsubstantiated claims and other forms of idiocy. my commitment to do this is, itself, idiotic.. but i digress.0 -
Downupreduc - Harshlands wrote: »you're using perfect shards as well as a different tome. make the equivalent light armor mage using the same shards and same other gear (tome, ornaments), just with LA class armor instead of AA class, i guarantee you'll get more HP and more pdef. nice try though. the fact that you got virtually the same result, while using much stronger shards and different gear, basically proves my point that you can't use the same investment (coin-wise) on refining+shards, and get "more p.def and hp" like many arcanes would like us to believe.
it's like, guess what, HH90 arcane refined +1 with g3 shards can't even tank magic as well as HH90 heavy armor refined +10 with g12 shards, therefore heavy armor wins. what part of "use the same refinement and shards" wasn't clear? i made a point to repeat that phrase at least three times in my wall of text post. i had hoped it would sink in.
and yeah, i promised myself to devote at least 1 hour a day to helping stamp out rumors, superstition, unsubstantiated claims and other forms of idiocy. my commitment to do this is, itself, idiotic.. but i digress.
Again, diminishing returns. No point having more defence after a certain point because of the percentage value you get per increment is not worth it. Face it, the HP diffrence between a LA and AA, would allow you to take a extra hit (?), while as Arcane you wont need to take that extra hit, becuase target will be dead due to your much higher DPS.
At 14% crit, you crit.. alot. And every crit from a AA mage is a one shot. Simply put, a LA cant kill anyone without a lucky crit. Not to mention LA gets ***** by magic; and magic hurts alot more then physical, ALOT MORE.0 -
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1e5b702f43b08bcf
I need to go to work.. this is just a quick example, you may have a slight bit more pdef.. but your mdef is seriously lacking on your LA build.. and would be easy prey for any magic class.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
I'm an LA wizard, and I'm going for AA when i hit 90.
This is what I found about LA:
1) Any magic using class kills me so damn fast >.< Venos hurt like ****.
2) I'm only basically good against Archers, but I actually need to be right in front of them to win.
3) AA has more survivability due to the event gear and refines. you will have more m.def and p.def, more channeling if you get good gear.
4) What I personally believe is that LA is good for PvE more than PvP, since you don't have to kite as much, and regarding magic hitting me for more than melee attacks attacks, try putting on earth barrier and get close to a mob that both hits with magic and melee, you will see that his melee attacks hit considerably less than his magic attacks.
5) It all depends on sharding, I have a friend wizard that is AA, sharded his gear with flawless citrines and garnets, while I sharded all my gear with flawless citrines, yes i have more hp than him, but he has more p.def and m.def than me. And I only have about 200 more hp than him.
This is just how I see it, so feel free to correct me b:victory"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."0 -
BrownflameZ - Lost City wrote: »Face it, the HP diffrence between a LA and AA, would allow you to take a extra hit (?), while as Arcane you wont need to take that extra hit, becuase target will be dead due to your much higher DPS.
at this point i'm wondering which of the numbers from the originally posted results you're taking issue with. i see no numbers listed in your post, simply speculation based on a basic eyeballing of the percentages and the idea that "magic hurts a lot."
i'm going to remind you of two things here, which you'd be well advised to keep in mind:
1) la can equip arcanes, giving them nearly the same m.def, with significantly more hp, as you've seen in pwcalc. not to mention skills like elemental shell and nullify poison to help mitigate spellcasters' damage further.
2) how much higher is "much higher" DPS? it's been established that on average, AA does roughly 14% more damage than LA, not counting crits, and the fact that LA typically has a 5-10% higher crit rate cuts that number down to arcane dealing 4-9% more damage than light, on average. crits aren't unknown random luck; in the long run they can be averaged right into your total damage output.
as for Adroit, two things. #1 you have changed the other gear around a bit; do the same for LA and you'll find my results still hold. #2 my LA build from earlier -- that 65-67% ("seriously lacking"? Seriously?) gets bumped up a few % by equipping an elemental neck + belt, not to mention even further by equipping arcanes which an LA can do. and as stated, elemental shell effectively gives an extra 1000% gear magic resist * 4/30 seconds of the time, so you can factor that into elemental resists as well.
oh, and i'll step away from numbers for a quick second to do a quick, substance-less hand-waving comment of my own, just to counter yours. "magic hits really hard"? of course, magic spells are geared around hard-hitting novas rather than constant DPS. Spark, Absolute Domain, Nullify Poison, Elemental Shell (stop me any time), skills like these (and more) are all intended to provide a quick short immunity against those heavy-hitting spells. this isn't exactly a real argument, but i figured for my own amusement i'd tear a page from your book and use words, instead of numbers, to cancel out that nasty Blade Tempest, BIDS, Tempest, Parasitic Nova, etc that you seem to think will hurt LA mages so much (and in my experience, they aren't that bad. lol).
ymmv. thank you for at least attempting on pwcalc, if nothing else you've helped me to prove my own point. b:thanks
as for ignation, if you're dying to venos on an LA mage before you can 1-hit them, i'm not sure what to tell you. invest in nullify poison and destroy them, LA should have an easy time with venos as it is. or switch to AA and pray that a nix never stuns you, which they most certainly will. alas, i hate generalizations like this, but the responders after the first response decided to bring them into this thread.
the whole point of this thread was to ditch the anecdotes and generalizations ("venos pwn me as LA" or "AA deals WAY more dps than LA, no i don't have numbers on that") and focus on numbers, which the very first response effectively did. i thank you for that.
also, my own assertion is not that AA is ****, but that LA is capable of being more survivable overall at the cost of some damage output. the numbers do in fact bear this out, as have several PWcalc builds. i thank you all for your service; those who remain unconvinced are those who can never be convinced, so i'm done banging my head against the wall with the vocal minority. Downupreduc... OUT~
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Genie skills can be used by a AA user as well, so doesn't really constitute as a valid argument.. Your mdef will be low regardless of mdef ornaments, unless your going to refine them to high standards. With that much of a coinage output your better off puting it towards pdef ornaments, for higher pdef while keeping the already high mdef.
Are you seriously hinting, that the majority of the mage population that say LA is a fail build are just saying so, becuase their mentally retarted? and have no basis for their stance?
AA can match a LA's pdef easily. LA only wins when it comes to a bit more HP, and a few more crit percentage. And yes, crit is random unless you reach 20%+; where it's fairly reliable but nothing to bet your life on, even then your DPS is something a sage-vit barb would shrug at.
Give me a break, your going to have a arcane set of armor to switch during pvp? lolrly? Have fun with that. On any PvP server no one really, 1v1 anymore. And even if you do manage to 1v1 against a arcane build mage, and your wearing your set of AA, the apposing mage would win due to the higher DPS.
I don't really have the time to go taking SS's of damage diffrence between, a LA and AA user, but im sure you can find countless amounts around these forums in past necro threads, such as this one. But its obvious that the damage diffrence between both builds gradually incline to a substancial diffrence; Expecially end-game.
Regardless of which, doesn't really take a brain dead person to realize end-game, magic spells hurt alot more then phys damage, from a melee character, unless ofcourse if its a fist BM. I'm going to take a wild guess and consider that your main, hiding behind that alt avatar is in its late 9x, and that you have fair about of PvP experience to realize mdef is more valuable then pdef.
LA, was first considered a viable build by pandora, for the higher pdef, back when this server was lacking in high grade shards, refines, and equips; not its just plain stupid and looked down apon for mass PvP such as TW.
Light armor is a fun build, I have nothing against it. But if your seriously wanting to play a mage, that of which isn't meant to be tanks but more of a kite-snipe tactic, then AA pure-int is the way to go, or vit-hybrid at lower 9x.
/EndBlockOfText. [FarkYouForMakingMeTypeSoMuch-RAGEEEE]0 -
Actually I am willing to listen to your argument.
At first I was actually convinced that " yo LA pwn dem AA noobs" stuff, that is why i actually went for LA.
But from trying to understand what you are saying, you say that I can equip AA armor as an LA.
So you are saying that I should be able to switch what? my whole equipment in a matter of seconds depending on who I am fighting?
Because if I had to switch between LA and AA, I think that I should change the cape, the rings, the necklaces and so on, not just the armor.
I'm not an expert at this nor have I ever stated that I am, I'm just speaking from experience as an LA mage, though I don't have that much experience, I do understand some basics.
You are saying that with genies, you can survive certain classes, did you forget that AA can use genies too and use different skills to make sure they can survive against certain classes?
Your whole argument from my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that LA and AA are very similar to each other if geared correctly.
If that is the case, then I personally would go for the build that hits the hardest, and that is AA. And if you're saying that the crit percantage comes in favor for an LA mage, then I can actually equip rings that have a crit percentage
I'm not saying that LA is not valid, it is valid and it has advantages, from what I have seen from Pandora's guide on LA and AA mages, AA mages were higher on both defenses and magic attack.
I'm just stating what I have seen and what I have read, and again I'm not an expert on this so my argument may have a lot of flaws. ^.^"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."0 -
ok my mage is on a pvp server (harshlands) and just ding 88. this isnt about sage/demon, its about armor choice at 90. here are a few questions i havent been able to get straight answers on ingame since everyones too heavily buried in one camp or the other like "la sucks" or "aa sucks" with no reason for saying either.
1. why do a lot of ppl who like la say "ya but everyone goes aa at 90+". what changes at 90+? does acrobatic, the hh90 aa green set, have dramatically more base pdef than the level 80 armors? in other words why do some think being 90 makes a huge difference? ppl who say that AA gets dramatically better at 90+ are ****. its not really AA that deserves credit. at level 95 u get access to lunar rings with +250 pdef, capes with +416 or +500 pdef, helmet with 167 pdef, acrobatic pants give 142 pdef etc. AA has the same sucky pdef as always
2. are same-lvl BMs and archers with at least decent gear, really hard fights for aa? ive been la so far and had trouble with neither. archers are easy kills, some bm i cant kill if theyre charmed but i can still take a lot of hits and live. be straight here, i know all the level 100+ aa's with +6 refined armor are going to chime in with "lol i 1hit most archers my lvl and they barely scratch me", but thats not realistic. no offense but being level 100+ with +6 well-sharded armor can make up for lack of talent as well as bad matchups like heavy-hitting archers.
3. what are the advantages of EACH? my naive take on it is aa is better for tw when you have other people taking hits and youre just flooding a large battlefield with aoe's, while la is better for a lot of solo fights since you match up better against most classes. correct me if i'm wrong or missing anything which i probably am.the advantages of AA is signicatly higher damage on basic nukes around 10-12%. AA and LA ice dragon have around 5% difference in damage. this is because lots of ice dragon damage comes from 13k flat bonus and 500% wep damage, neither of which are effected by mag points addded. AA and LA have similar overall defenses (LA is a bit better off for overal defenses). AA has more survability agaist mag attacks while LA has more survivability against phys attacks.
4. i see a lot of aa trying to compare pdef/hp with la, unfortunately its usually aa with high refine / immaculate or higher shards, trying to compare with la with low refine / flawless shards. which really has better stats FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF COIN invested (say like... +4 armor with immac shards only or something). and which shards does each use anyway? if aa use pdef shards they can get similar pdef to la, but i would think their hp count would be low. as for la they can get really high hp count if they go straight hp but would it be worth using a few pdef shards one of the significant advantages of LA is the 5% crit u get from dex added. this is a blessing if you are poor and cannot affors lunar rings wiht 3% crit and heavenrage boots with 2% crit. if you have lots of coin/ assets arcane is probably the better choice. LA is better if you cant afford lunar ornaments, heavenrage boots and lunar cape etc. because of stone shield and these awesome items AA> LA ( but u need to have these items)?
5. any other notes. i know a lot depends on gear and a lot depends on skill. for the sake of discussion im trying to compare with DECENT gear and DECENT skill, not exceptional. i know la mages who cash shop up to 20% crit rate and +10 weapons will hit harder than most aa. i know aa mages who cash shop their armor will have 20k pdef and high hp. these facts are irrelevant to me since i have the money but not the inclination to spend that much on a game - dont get me wrong i spend some but burning paycheck after paycheck isnt how i'd like to do business b:cute
thx all.
due to stone barrier i would do AA on wizard without any hesitation
i am really confused as what i should use on my psychic becuase we dont have stone shield and our pdef is ****, even the aforementioned gears cannot make it close to decent unless i get both cleric and bm buff
lots of AA mages post bull**** about AA mages regular hit= LA mages crit
the stupidest thing i hear is that AA pdef can equal LA pdef
YEH NO FKING ****
we all know it can
be prepared to spend
all arguments with LA vs AA should take into consideration coin as a factor
otherwise i can say stuff like a level 70 veno> level 90 mage
oh yea but i forgot to mention u need to have gear with refines at least +8 higher than the mage0 -
Magikrap - Lost City wrote: »due to stone barrier i would do AA on wizard without any hesitation
i am really confused as what i should use on my psychic becuase we dont have stone shield and our pdef is ****, even the aforementioned gears cannot make it close to decent unless i get both cleric and bm buff
lots of AA mages post bull**** about AA mages regular hit= LA mages crit
the stupidest thing i hear is that AA pdef can equal LA pdef
YEH NO FKING ****
we all know it can
be prepared to spend
all arguments with LA vs AA should take into consideration coin as a factor
otherwise i can say stuff like a level 70 veno> level 90 mage
oh yea but i forgot to mention u need to have gear with refines at least +8 higher than the mage
1) Shards are not expensive, so you can shard your gear greatly with little money.
2) Read what BrownflameZ said.
3) Refining that high is not a must, it's optional, you can refine all your gear to +5 and not spend THAT much on it, there are ways beside using dragon orbs from 1 to 5.
4) Lunar rings are really good, even the event cape and event helmet and boots, but they can be replaced if he doesn't have money, with 3 star gear that have good adds.
5) LA has good HP we all know that, but he gets ****** by magic attacks, like BrownflameZ said, magic attacks hurt more than physical attacks.
6) We all know that you can spend a ****load of money on gear and pwn everything in your way, but some people do pretty and amazingly good without spending THAT much money on just gear.
7) AA has been proven to be capable of having more p.def than an LA while maintaining high m.def, and don't even try to tell me an LA would go for p.def adds because it would make anyone look stupid, even with m.def adds on an LA mage, he will not have the same m.def as an AA mage, this is a fact not some theory.
8) AA mages power > LA mages power, this has been, again proven by a lot of our AA mages.
9) Crit rate, again like BrownflameZ said is nothing to depend on when it's below 20%, I as an LA mage, have 10% crit, and I do not crit that often, I don't cast SS and pray that it crits.
10) LA is valid, again we did not say LA is not valid, we simply stated the facts that have been proven again and again by more experienced players, LA is good pre 90, AA is the way to go after 90, unless you want to spend ALOT of money on LA gear that an AA mage can and will have with less money.
That's all I can say right now. b:bye
Edit: The event cape can be replaced by the Cape of Elite Leather at level 96, it is great because it gives:
1) Reduce Physical Damage Taken by 2%
2) +105 HP.
3) +240 P.def
4) Grade 12.
So please don't talk about spending ridiculous amounts of money on event gear ^.^"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."0 -
Your game to play as you want. Go LA or AA...your choice.
*Munches popcorn*
OP is 88...hmmm.
Go Sage.
*Munches popcorn*
Go Demon.
*Munches popcorn*
Every person has different play style, different build/shards/refines/coinage/etc.
*Munches popcorn*
What's right for one may not be for another.
*Picks popcorn husk from teeth*
What is 'best'??
*Munches popcorn*
Depends what you are doing at any one particular moment.
*adds more salt to popcorn* (cannot understand people who make it sweet)
So, have a nice time proving your view of the world is best...or go play the game and have a nice day.
*Munches popcorn*0 -
Ignation - Lost City wrote: »1) Shards are not expensive, so you can shard your gear greatly with little money.
2) Read what BrownflameZ said.
3) Refining that high is not a must, it's optional, you can refine all your gear to +5 and not spend THAT much on it, there are ways beside using dragon orbs from 1 to 5.
4) Lunar rings are really good, even the event cape and event helmet and boots, but they can be replaced if he doesn't have money, with 3 star gear that have good adds.
5) LA has good HP we all know that, but he gets ****** by magic attacks, like BrownflameZ said, magic attacks hurt more than physical attacks.
6) We all know that you can spend a ****load of money on gear and pwn everything in your way, but some people do pretty and amazingly good without spending THAT much money on just gear.
7) AA has been proven to be capable of having more p.def than an LA while maintaining high m.def, and don't even try to tell me an LA would go for p.def adds because it would make anyone look stupid, even with m.def adds on an LA mage, he will not have the same m.def as an AA mage, this is a fact not some theory.
8) AA mages power > LA mages power, this has been, again proven by a lot of our AA mages.
9) Crit rate, again like BrownflameZ said is nothing to depend on when it's below 20%, I as an LA mage, have 10% crit, and I do not crit that often, I don't cast SS and pray that it crits.
10) LA is valid, again we did not say LA is not valid, we simply stated the facts that have been proven again and again by more experienced players, LA is good pre 90, AA is the way to go after 90, unless you want to spend ALOT of money on LA gear that an AA mage can and will have with less money.
That's all I can say right now. b:bye
Edit: The event cape can be replaced by the Cape of Elite Leather at level 96, it is great because it gives:
1) Reduce Physical Damage Taken by 2%
2) +105 HP.
3) +240 P.def
4) Grade 12.
So please don't talk about spending ridiculous amounts of money on event gear ^.^
cap of elite leather is fairly cheap but this alone will not give u pdef equivalent to that of a LA mage
u would need lunar rings which cost like 60 mil each
another thing which LA advocates do not acknowledge/consider is that just like pdef, mdef is also important and using LA kills mdef
archers, an extreme threat mid game do not fair so well >90 and having crazy pdef (attained with both pdef ornaments and LA) is highly unnessary
i was kinda playing devils advocate in my earlier post as i often AA mages spurting BS from their mouth about how AA> LA (eg AA normal hit = LA crit)
for a wiz AA seems to have more advantages
higher m attack , higher mdef vs higher pdef
still not sure what to do with my psychic though b:surrender
im full mag atm0 -
Ishmah - Sanctuary wrote: »
*adds more salt to popcorn* (cannot understand people who make it sweet)
heres something much more important then LA vs AA
sweet popcorn is better then salty popcorn0 -
So being that there are a number of ignorant people posting in this thread.. I'd like to see you come up with a better build than this using LA. Just limit shards/refines to what I have.. and no rank7/8 items or nirvana. Keep the weapon, and good luck.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=627c6bfc9672cf80
Although I wouldn't normally put 100 vit in.. it puts this character above 10k hp, and it makes the benefit of an extra 150 stat points more noticeable. I'd be EXTREMELY impressed if anyone could come up with some LA build with more survivability than this using similar gear.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »So being that there are a number of ignorant people posting in this thread.. I'd like to see you come up with a better build than this using LA. Just limit shards/refines to what I have.. and no rank7/8 items or nirvana. Keep the weapon, and good luck.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=627c6bfc9672cf80
Although I wouldn't normally put 100 vit in.. it puts this character above 10k hp, and it makes the benefit of an extra 150 stat points more noticeable. I'd be EXTREMELY impressed if anyone could come up with some LA build with more survivability than this using similar gear.
9.4k HP without all that vit is just as a impressive b:irritated.
Did you just call me ignorant. b:sad0 -
Am sure it was me being ignorant.
Maybe one day I will be able to impress Adroit.
(Salt is still better)0 -
AA and LA at 90
AA(with self buffs): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=64fe7cb2eb624d2c
AA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3d89437d334994f9
LA(with self buffs):http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d260ef0983278f2f
LA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=93c9f5eba5bbb948
there is hardcore numbers
that gear isnt hard to get
average refines for a non cash shopping 9x player
i used wings of cloudcharge cape cause i was too lazy to make one upSins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »So being that there are a number of ignorant people posting in this thread.. I'd like to see you come up with a better build than this using LA. Just limit shards/refines to what I have.. and no rank7/8 items or nirvana. Keep the weapon, and good luck.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=627c6bfc9672cf80
Although I wouldn't normally put 100 vit in.. it puts this character above 10k hp, and it makes the benefit of an extra 150 stat points more noticeable. I'd be EXTREMELY impressed if anyone could come up with some LA build with more survivability than this using similar gear.
ok nice, but for this need alot real cash too or few year. yes its nice but damn expensive.AA and LA at 90
AA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3d89437d334994f9
where is the mdef buff?0 -
Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
AA and LA at 90
AA(with self buffs): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=64fe7cb2eb624d2c
AA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3d89437d334994f9
LA(with self buffs):http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d260ef0983278f2f
LA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=93c9f5eba5bbb948
there is hardcore numbers
that gear isnt hard to get
average refines for a non cash shopping 9x player
i used wings of cloudcharge cape cause i was too lazy to make one up
Let's see:
1) AA is lvl 90 while your LA is lvl 100.
2) If a +7 wep is "average refines for a noncsing 9x player", why is your wep still +3?
3) LA would probably shard some more garnets. 5k pdef selfbuffed is ew as LA
Sidenote: why is this thread like a conglomeration of walls of text?0 -
i saw a level 87 HA wizard yesterday
it was amazing
he said he had 12k pdef
he was tanking all this **** in hh1-2
he had AA to switch into for magic stuff
he made my day0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »So being that there are a number of ignorant people posting in this thread.. I'd like to see you come up with a better build than this using LA. Just limit shards/refines to what I have.. and no rank7/8 items or nirvana. Keep the weapon, and good luck.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=627c6bfc9672cf80
Although I wouldn't normally put 100 vit in.. it puts this character above 10k hp, and it makes the benefit of an extra 150 stat points more noticeable. I'd be EXTREMELY impressed if anyone could come up with some LA build with more survivability than this using similar gear.
Hope I was not included with the "ignorant people" b:surrender
This is a build I've made up, it's not THAT good, but it should be good enough if he does not want to spend a lot of money. (But he can save some money for at least the helmet or the event boots, feel free to change it.)
This is not by any means what I think an AA wizard should be at 96, I'm aiming for more, so please correct it if it has flaws b:victory
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=79efffe9259cffdc"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »So being that there are a number of ignorant people posting in this thread.. I'd like to see you come up with a better build than this using LA. Just limit shards/refines to what I have.. and no rank7/8 items or nirvana. Keep the weapon, and good luck.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=627c6bfc9672cf80
Although I wouldn't normally put 100 vit in.. it puts this character above 10k hp, and it makes the benefit of an extra 150 stat points more noticeable. I'd be EXTREMELY impressed if anyone could come up with some LA build with more survivability than this using similar gear.
Ok i'm only lvl 65 but I just used your pwicalc and changed AA to LA version so same refine, same shards so don't flame lol .
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=4cd6f0b99042a62b
So you ended up with more hp (10504), 73% reduced phys dmg, 73% reduced mag dmg and 11374/13575 mag attack.
LA has 9600 HP, 77% reduced phys dmg, 66% reduced mag dmg ; and 9903/11820 mag attack and 5% more crit.
LA lacks mdef but have more crit. I dunno how to translate mag attack difference in real pvp damage loss though.
So overall, with LA you gain 4% reduced phys dmg, and crit ; with AA u gain 7% reduced mag attack and slightly more dmg (how much?).0 -
Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver wrote: »Let's see:
1) AA is lvl 90 while your LA is lvl 100.
2) If a +7 wep is "average refines for a noncsing 9x player", why is your wep still +3?
3) LA would probably shard some more garnets. 5k pdef selfbuffed is ew as LA
Sidenote: why is this thread like a conglomeration of walls of text?
my weapon isnt +3....
the weapon im currently using isnt worth +7ing since im just gonna decomp it in a few weeks, and its also very crappy but it gets the job done with its current refines.
AA and LA at 90
AA(with self buffs): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=64fe7cb2eb624d2c
AA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3d89437d334994f9
LA(with self buffs):http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=7c97e912581a620b
LA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=93c9f5eba5bbb948
Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »my weapon isnt +3....
the weapon im currently using isnt worth +7ing since im just gonna decomp it in a few weeks, and its also very crappy but it gets the job done with its current refines.
AA and LA at 90
AA(with self buffs): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=64fe7cb2eb624d2c
AA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3d89437d334994f9
LA(with self buffs):http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=7c97e912581a620b
LA(full buffed): http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=93c9f5eba5bbb948
You forgot turn on one cleric buff for AA fully buffed.
This is correct.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3ab1d48f9b9ce2bb[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
This discussion has been closed.
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