Game turning more handout-ish??

Yulk - Heavens Tear · February 2010

I believe that people that want to level so fast is more happy. But... Ever since more exp reward from bounty hunt quest and the hyper exp. Seems like its too much. And I thought Oracles and quest scrolls were lame (besides authentic works). Although friends of mine leveling alts for RB ^^ to do with me so I join them when I get above 55 (can't level above that till RB finishing alpha <.< and I will keep at that LVL till then) But overall... I believe that BH has turned newbies that want to get to high level so quickly into failures. I honestly dislike bounty hunt quests, but I still do it to farm spirit and level genies. It is good for marketing after all. Its absurd imo

BTW I am back, for a bit... lol btw my main (barb) is LVL55 b:victory

Aloque - Sanctuary · February 2010

I rarely have time to level I'm the director of a needy faction b:surrender

Yulk - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Aloque - Sanctuary wrote: »

I rarely have time to level I'm the director of a needy faction b:surrender

More like time to play your class, what good is leveling if you still dunno how to play your class? b:avoid

Skybelle - Sanctuary · February 2010

Bounty Hunter does teach each class how to play it. I mean, you're inside an instance and each day, you may or may not play with different people and you handle different situations. b:surrender

Sure, BH may become a routine but playing with different people makes it different.

In my opinion, it's much better than buying stones to get EXP/spirit or flying around endlessly to talk to NPCs (World Quest/Crazy Stones).

Airyll - Dreamweaver · February 2010

I'm yes and no on this.

BH teaches you how to play your class when you aren't already squadding with people who don't know what they're doing. As somebody has said - you are in a squad, you are needing to communicate, you are needing teamwork.

But if you're in a squad where nobody knows how to play their class and you yourself haven't learnt (which is ridiculous in itself - you need to be at least level 40 to start BH quests and if by 40 you don't know how to play your class at least a little bit you're too much of a noob) then you won't necessarily learn the right way to play your class.

BH in and of itself is not a problem, but you need to be aware and know the basics of your class, you need to know the very basics of your job in a squad and, frankly, you do need to have at least one or two other squad members also knowing the same. If nobody knows what they're doing at all or reckons they can do things when they actually cannot it's doomed to fail anyway and you will probably learn your class badly.

Oracles are the main reason people didn't learn their class. You didn't need to learn to AoE grind, squad, nothing. Hell an archer or barb or BM could start up an oracle quest and just auto-attack through the whole bunch of oracles, not learning a thing, and then ding, they're suddenly 80! What's flesh ream again?

CS and WQ aren't enough on their own to level you fast - you'd need a BH or grinding or oracles between those. Oracles, CS and WQ = bad combo, you learn very little. Grinding, CS and WQ = not so good combo, you only learn so much when you grind alone. BH, CS and WQ = not the best combo but certainly the best out of the above three, at least you learn what a squad is and have a chance to learn how to play as a part of one.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · February 2010

you guys really don't understand the point... maybe you do have to know how to play your class, but uhm... I find grinding much more difficult than BH, my barb solo farren easily. Which most people hate to do. But they would QQ about being broke xD after BH. To be honest, I find rebirth best to learn to play your class, not BH. Besides, what LVL difference in each dungeon? Like maybe... 7-16 LVLs, thats pretty much pointless

Airyll - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To be honest, I find rebirth best to learn to play your class, not BH.

What are you smoking?

Clerics in RB BB, solo one boss, BB some more, heal an archer or whoever tanks boss two, and BB some more.
Archers BoA, farm chests, BoA some more, solo a boss, BoA some more.
Wizzies DB, farm chests, DB, kill lanterns, DB.
Barbs run around questing, then pull some waves (remembering you have auras helping you by this point - things you don't get anywhere else), AoE some mobs, try keep aggro, use a few knockbacks, tank bosses.
BMs pull a few waves, AoE, farm some chests, more pulling and AoE and a few knockbacks hither and thither, set up a few auras...
Psychics/Sins/Venos whatever have to kill a few mobs as if grinding, farm a few chests and then... oh hey, AoE as much as possible, and DD on bosses.

Yeah. Totally teaches everybody about their class. The only people in that it would really teach are barbs and BMs, they have to do a lot of work. Everybody else just needs to sit around throwing AoEs here and there and DDing on bosses.

BoA =/= learning how to be an archer
DB =/= learning how to be a wizard
BB =/= learning how to be a cleric
Pulling when you have auras to help build your chi, recover your mana and your HP and increase your attack and defence =/= learning how to deal with similar situations when you don't have that help and need to learn to use genie skills more often than not, potting and other things. (discounted for double wave, where whoever pulls half tends to go out of aura range)
AoEing as much as possible =/= learning how to be any other class

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2010

Fast leveling when you have learned your class is nice (quest-less, slow levels). Fast leveling through levels when you should be questing is not. Generally every level i like to do the quests of that level first. Some people level like to daily 20 levels higher then come back and do quests, that doesn't teach you anything. You can 2shot the mobs

Skybelle - Sanctuary · February 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What are you smoking?

b:shocked I certainly would not want any of those.

@ Qui -I agree with you. But then, I haven't really been questing/levelling for a very...very long time. b:chuckle

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · February 2010

< - - - don't know what is bh before, just recently know it.
Lv to 64 without bh, oracle, only do cs if i want to do it. b:sad so boring though.

Devoted - Lost City · February 2010

how hard is it to learn a class? it really shouldn't take someone 3 months of grinding to 90 to know how to play one. the only problem i have with the sneeze and ding 90 is that it wasn't always like that, why did I have to waste 3 months to get 90 when I could have waited a year to only take 3 weeks? leveling used to be one way to compete with cash shoppers pvp wise because leveling no matter how much you spent took time. now i see people who put in an eighth of the effort, +10 their cv weap and now talk mad ****.

hemoglobin · February 2010

no, bh's are there trying to help people lvl because there are many lvls in this game and you gotta become a high lvl somehow. maybe the 4x who get high lvls to kill qingzi for them every day dont learn their class but i am in a squad with people the same lvl range as me for 3 hours and if that dont teach me how to learn my class idk what does. i like public quest better than bounty hunter though, the teamwork is better even though were not all in a squad and it seems people at the public quest play their class very well.

Deadlock - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Hmmm? . if you don't like the bounty hunter system then don't do it.
if you don't like the hyper exp crystals and oracles then don't buy them.
people who put money into to the game have the choice to do them for a few reasons
1) They want to level faster
2) They want to level faster
or my fav number 3) They want to level faster.

ether way your rebirth will be only as good as your squad.
to be honest i rather spend 10 bucks and get me them new addicting hyper stones and rock out for an hour then do my daily's and you and pause it.
Way better then scrolls.
Funny thing is everyone has dislikes and likes about a game or the way it's run.
you will never find a center cause there are so many unhappy people who have dislikes about something and want to post long drawn out things about what they don't like.
The bottom line is if they want to waste all there cash and buy stones and oracles then who cares. and if they don't learn there character and be a clown with idiot question they should of learned in there 20's then so be it.
they work hard for there money and they can do what they want pay them no mind. you do you. and let them do them.
end of tape.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Deadlock - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1) They want to level faster
2) They want to level faster
or my fav number 3) They want to level faster.
4) They don't want to left behind.

You forget number 4. b:chuckle

Deadlock - Heavens Tear · February 2010

i forgot 4, and 5. eeek ><

4) they don't want to be left behind.
5) They want to T.W.

Solariz - Harshlands · February 2010

i have a cleric i am oracling from 30 and hope 2 60 why cos i hate rpkers
who do nothing but go to 30 40 even 50 area 2 farm kills.
also this game have 2 **** few clerics most wana we a DD no wonder
u hear in Worsldschat loking for a cleric last spot free wine etc etc.
me is a bm at heart but hard loking 2 compete with all ather classes
and 2 few cleric 2 do bh HH rb maybe dont care of it yet sadly i dont really
like playing robe caster class but doing my part cos so few do.

Esuna - Raging Tide · February 2010

DW, if you wanna levelup the hard way, make a fish person- nobody wants those on their FC/RBs b:thanks

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2010

Deadlock - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmmm? . if you don't like the bounty hunter system then don't do it.
if you don't like the hyper exp crystals and oracles then don't buy them.
people who put money into to the game have the choice to do them for a few reasons
1) They want to level faster
2) They want to level faster
or my fav number 3) They want to level faster.

ether way your rebirth will be only as good as your squad.
to be honest i rather spend 10 bucks and get me them new addicting hyper stones and rock out for an hour then do my daily's and you and pause it.
Way better then scrolls.
Funny thing is everyone has dislikes and likes about a game or the way it's run.
you will never find a center cause there are so many unhappy people who have dislikes about something and want to post long drawn out things about what they don't like.
The bottom line is if they want to waste all there cash and buy stones and oracles then who cares. and if they don't learn there character and be a clown with idiot question they should of learned in there 20's then so be it.
they work hard for there money and they can do what they want pay them no mind. you do you. and let them do them.
end of tape.

I agree. And people should be allowed to do this in school too. There, they're not allowed to do their learning in such a manner, but they should be. o wait nvm lol

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary · February 2010

Id say this game is more hand-outish than any other game i played. PW has literally made grinding for exp obsolete, and anyone can get to a high lvl without any real grind. Just sign in everyday, do a couple dailys, sign out... and alot of people play this way.

Gve - Sanctuary · February 2010

know that feeling all i really do sign do some daily hang with wife then sign our haven't done quest for like over 5 lvls. I dread my quest list one day i will do them till them nah they can sit there

Faith_z - Sanctuary · February 2010

Yes it get easier to lvl up in this game, then again, i beleive in the end the people that only lvl on oracles, dont learn what their class can do etc will bump their head into a wall in later stages of the game, and will either be forced to learn, or quit/reroll.

As main is a cleric i already have a list of bms/barbs etc i dont go on bh with, because they are just plain bad in what they do. I am not saying i am the best cleric out there, but boy there are a lot of fails out there. I for one wont take them on a bh because i refuse to die or let my whole squad die because after 70+ levels someone else still has no clue what theyre role in a group is, let alone is able to communicate in a team.

That, I have to give OP the thumbs up on, do rb alpha. I read someone here somewhere stating you dont learn anything from rb, maybe not the later ones, but someone that has done rb alpha knows you do learn a lot from it.
I stayed lvl 55 for months to complete alpha and it did make me a better cleric.
It helps so much on knowing and learning how a squad can function when you all communicate, know what to do and when to do it, and timing is the make or break of a whole squad and run in there. So yea i would tell anyone to do it, to get better at what they do. but i doubt many people have the patience and willpower to do it.

Because people think once you hit the high digits it means you will be good at what you do, and thats the biggest bull.... there is, actions will tell people if you are good, numbers dont say a thing.

Fiery_Demon - Heavens Tear · February 2010

I don't get why people want to get to level 90 in like 1 week or a month, what good is that? I mean, as it's almost impossible to level above 100, you're just stuck at that point. I know its the whole point of the game, to level up, but you should enjoy the journey to the top, not just rush your way through. What does it give you to level your character to the top so fast? I think what matters is the hard work you do to get to the top and the feeling you get from achieveing something that you've worked for, not the goal itself. It took me a year to level my cleric to 80 and I liked it that way.
And about the bh/cs/wq and all of those, I really like that they exsist, just that there are too much of them. In my opinion, bh could start at level 60, not before, as it's quite easy to level that far without it. Only things I don't understand are oracles, people just waste tons of cash on them, and get 50 levels in a day, yey <.<!
So the whole point of my post is that if the game is f2p, it should be equally difficult and fun to play for everyone, not so that some people just "buy levels" (and I won't even get started on the topic of the "anni/coral packs", I'm sure everyone has heard enough of those already).

Aloque - Sanctuary · February 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

More like time to play your class, what good is leveling if you still dunno how to play your class? b:avoid

atm I'm an all purpose blademaster, I can fight with axes, poles, swords, and fists, now I'm just trying to get some more on vitality bit by bit so I can become a tank. and from the looks of it if my genie keeps it up (currently has 58/60 lucky points) I'll be able to get the (balance) skill and maaaaybe (true emptiness) that will allow me to absorb or have a strong defense to magic attacks.

I hate magic b:angry

Rayne_ - Harshlands · February 2010

First of all, I will address the issue of money.

We are playing a game that is free to play, but that comes at a cost to the developers. They only care about money. If they can make money while giving people what they want, while still keeping the game a little slow, then why not?

The game takes time, it's VERY slow to level up and, (if my reading has served me correctly), apparently there are no quests beyond level 89. Congratulations. You make level 90, you are 15 levels away from being exalted, and you have no help to get there. What does it take to gain .1% of your level now? 20 monsters, and 15 need to have boosted stats?
The road to nowhere just got a lot longer, thanks guys...

The game isn't FINISHED, people. There are still a lot of things that need work, and the developers want to KEEP CUSTOMERS. Especially when they're faced against competition that eats the consumer; most notably the cartooney beast that is World Of ********.

Has anyone besides me noticed that there are no players on any server beyond level 102?
I've been tracking the horrendous experience curve this game has. At level 75 I needed 2,110,000+ for a level. I asked a level 80 friend how much she needed and it was well over 3,800,000. An almost 200% increase in only 5 levels. Nobody looks forward to that...

The first major issue they are looking at is how slow the game becomes after level 40. I know plenty of people who have quit by level 20. Is this a problem? For developers yes, because that means people are not enjoying their product. They want people to come back, they need people to buy things from the cash shop to give them a paycheque, and above all they need CONTENT to create an engaging game that makes people want to play more. I think they have done quite well with this since I started playing. The game is developing quite nicely. (Now if they could put some more money into the translation of the text then I'd be much happier, but that's beside the point...)

If you have lots of things for players to do then likely they will investigate it and play the game more often. "Hmm... I can do Bounty Hunter Quests now, I wonder what those are..... hmm... Rebirth Of The Gods, that sounds interesting..." etc.

The recent 2 weeks of double experience/spirit/drops is a big thank you for the free publicity from the facebook contest. Putting your customers to work really pays off, and in this case it benefits both parties. By no means is this a handout.

Admittedly I do feel bad for those who hunted monsters and did the Crazy Stone quest up to level 100. Everyone else is getting an easier time of it where they had to put a lot more effort in. Likely the game lost customers for that reason as well, not just because they wanted their lives back after all that time wasted.

On behalf of someone who has been able to enjoy all the new fun stuff since level 68, (Tideborn, 3 Bounty Hunters a day, etc.), I'm sorry.
But also a big thank you to the developers for making the game more interesting and giving an actual purpose to marriage.

What comes next is the issue of Oracles, Hyper Stones, and the many idiots who are rushing through the game.

SLOW DOWN.

I bought oracles once and gained 50% of a level in about 20 minutes. (I had help killing the monster I needed) I never cared to buy more after that. I suppose to the average moron they make the game appear like it's nothing more than senseless monster bashing. (They aren't necessarily wrong in assuming this, because that's all any MMO really boils down to) However teamwork for boss monsters needs to be taught through trial and failure. I've won, I've lost, I've yelled at Clerics for not doing their job right, I solo'd Shade Eido and crushed Jewelscalen with the help of only 2 Venomancers healing a Hercules pet. (Kind of felt like we kicked the developers in the balls with that one...)
You don't learn everything when you buy your way through. It seems to me that doing 3 Bounty Hunters a day, Marriage Quests, Public Quests and Hyper Stones were meant more for helping higher level people get to 90+ a little faster and keep them interested in the boutique. The time needed to get to high level has been effectively cut in half

Yes, some people will rush into it and take longer to learn their role in a group. Yes, some will be more prone to instruction than others. That's one of the reasons high level players exist, to instruct the dumb/uninformed ones so they can be effective players when they get to our level. If you want a game without ******* you have to do your part to facilitate a lack of idiocy.
Granted their will be those beyond help, and the next one to ask me for money or for something from the boutique will be promptly ignored or killed. If you tell them how to do something 3 times and they do it wrong a 5th time, leave them in the dirt where they belong.

Also, things like the Hyper Stones and Crazy Stone Quest are probably meant to inspire you to take a break. Waiting 10 minutes for the Crazy Stone is a good chance for me to go make a sandwich, give my girlfriend a hug or read a few pages of a book.
20 hours of 10% normal experience after a Hyper Stone, (remember these hours also count down when you are NOT logged in), is a good chance for me to go to bed and spend the next day playing my guitar.

Take a break. It's good for you.

Finally, the main reason why this game is certainly not a handout game, is the following:

Bounty Hunters, Crazy Stones, World Quests, Marriage Quests and Oracles do NOT GIVE YOU MONEY for completing them.

Without money you cannot pay to learn your skills. So if you aren't hunting monsters for 2 hours a day and selling your drops like the rest of us, you won't get anywhere.
What's that? You're level 80, all your skills are level 5 and you don't have enough money to pay for your repair bill?

Congratulations moron, you are now useless. Go play ******** or Phantasy Star Universe and let the developers hold your hand with predetermined stat growth.

Rayne_ - Harshlands · February 2010

I forgot to say in my last message, I think one of the best ways to learn how to play your class is doing the Twilight Temple, Frost City and the like.

You need real teamwork to get through those places, and the Reputation rewards are definitely worth it. Among the best in the game, it seems.

P.S. I wonder why they censor the full name of W.Craft....

Magikrap - Lost City · February 2010

Faith_z - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes it get easier to lvl up in this game, then again, i beleive in the end the people that only lvl on oracles, dont learn what their class can do etc will bump their head into a wall in later stages of the game, and will either be forced to learn, or quit/reroll.

As main is a cleric i already have a list of bms/barbs etc i dont go on bh with, because they are just plain bad in what they do. I am not saying i am the best cleric out there, but boy there are a lot of fails out there. I for one wont take them on a bh because i refuse to die or let my whole squad die because after 70+ levels someone else still has no clue what theyre role in a group is, let alone is able to communicate in a team.

That, I have to give OP the thumbs up on, do rb alpha. I read someone here somewhere stating you dont learn anything from rb, maybe not the later ones, but someone that has done rb alpha knows you do learn a lot from it.
I stayed lvl 55 for months to complete alpha and it did make me a better cleric.
It helps so much on knowing and learning how a squad can function when you all communicate, know what to do and when to do it, and timing is the make or break of a whole squad and run in there. So yea i would tell anyone to do it, to get better at what they do. but i doubt many people have the patience and willpower to do it.

Because people think once you hit the high digits it means you will be good at what you do, and thats the biggest bull.... there is, actions will tell people if you are good, numbers dont say a thing.

i think majority of people (including yourself right here) exaggerate how difficult it is to learn to play a class

honestly skill is like 5% of this game and it doesnt take long to learn a class

all the classes are really really easy to play

the best way to learn to play your class is to probably read/ listen to more experienced players rather than actually play it

i dont think oracles will have a large impact on people who have read guides/ forums esp if you to your BH everyday/regularly

but i agree there are many hi levels who are fail and will continue to fail becuase they will not tajke advice becasu they are hi level

Yulk - Heavens Tear · February 2010

@ Airyll

they using charms are they not? in BH mainly you don't use charms there. thats the first thing. Second rebirth alpha is really difficult, I doubt RB is about sitting there. Your supposed to be quick on your toes, not sitting on your butt and charm wasting (maybe you can use charms but its about timing here). and as far as I know, BB is learned at 59, so how could a cleric learn BB before 59? Also archer, barrage... not below that. So you should speak for yourself.

@ the people who does agree

Yeah its good you guys have agreed. Its making people rush to LVL. Making PWI somewhat lack of challenge in some areas, which kills gameplay. So even grinding is more difficult than oracles or BHs xD or CS or WQ. But true players imo are the ones who do TTs, grinding, RBs, and who knows it could be FF runs too. Cube is fun too xD. But these you cannot rely on strangers to do team work with you there, really pointless sadly b:surrender.

@Deadlock

I agree with you, but I do still do BH to feed genie the BH reward from exp xD, good for marketing genies faster and skills. Other than that, I don't do dailies. I won't judge people how they play the game. If they want to level too fast then QQ about their class or make up that it does not take long to play their class, then they should play the other classes. I have my share of other classes. But if they want to TW, i won't join them lol. If I ever want to PVP, I'd be playing an FPS game instead imo

GothicAngeI - Heavens Tear · February 2010

No point rushing to lvl 100 .. outside of PvP/TW nothing left to do but boredom and making alts.

<<<<<<<<<<<<

Isala - Sanctuary · February 2010

I hit my goal. I got my Sage fairy. I pushed, and pushed to get to that goal. Now, I'm going to have some fun with this game. I'm going to play it my way, with my rules, and go wherever the hell I want, simply because I can. I've got gear in the bank waiting for me to hit my 90s, but it can stay there for a while. I've got alts to experience, classes to learn, things to explore, and lulz to get. I might just go back to where it all began, after sticking all my gear in the bank, and start playing from there, only using the drops I get to equip myself. Sure, I'll be 89 killing level 1 mobs, but I'll be using level 1 drops, and I think it'll be funny as hell. Even if I don't get drops due to my level, I think it'll be good for a laugh. I've always wanted to try a snow hare as a main pet... I think I'll do that. b:chuckle Why? Because playing a game should be about fun. I suppose, if plowing through all the game has to offer you is fun to you, you're enjoying yourself, but what do you do, when you're near the cap, having experienced nothing of the journey? Roll an alt, and do the exact same thing? Have fun with that, I guess... I'll be over here, plugging away at newbie mobs, taking time to stop and farm the tuckahoe.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide · February 2010

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

I hit my goal. I got my Sage fairy. I pushed, and pushed to get to that goal. Now, I'm going to have some fun with this game. I'm going to play it my way, with my rules, and go wherever the hell I want, simply because I can. I've got gear in the bank waiting for me to hit my 90s, but it can stay there for a while. I've got alts to experience, classes to learn, things to explore, and lulz to get. I might just go back to where it all began, after sticking all my gear in the bank, and start playing from there, only using the drops I get to equip myself. Sure, I'll be 89 killing level 1 mobs, but I'll be using level 1 drops, and I think it'll be funny as hell. Even if I don't get drops due to my level, I think it'll be good for a laugh. I've always wanted to try a snow hare as a main pet... I think I'll do that. b:chuckle Why? Because playing a game should be about fun. I suppose, if plowing through all the game has to offer you is fun to you, you're enjoying yourself, but what do you do, when you're near the cap, having experienced nothing of the journey? Roll an alt, and do the exact same thing? Have fun with that, I guess... I'll be over here, plugging away at newbie mobs, taking time to stop and farm the tuckahoe.

That's exactly what I'm doing right now b:cute . A wise & forum trolling cleric that writes in cyan once said : "set your own goals" .

Game turning more handout-ish??

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