Alternatives to Shadowless Kick OR How to Cancel Consistantly

__Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver
__Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 106 Arc User
edited February 2010 in Blademaster
TL;DR version: Shadowless Kick is awesome (nothing quite says "STFU!" like a pair of feet to the face >=D), but until Sage the cooldown sucks. As such, I find myself looking for ways to fill in the gaps. =(

Not-So-TL;DR portion: So far blocking via Spark Eruption works well enough...but it's not something I like to rely upon, as there are far too many ways for it to flub up (not enough Chi...server/comp/attack lag...)

So I come looking to the BM forums for help: what are some effective non-Stun options for canceling skills better? So far I've come across...

1.) Earthquake: Not an effective option until level 10, IMO, when (according to the skill text at least...) the interrupt effect has a 100% chance of going off. And since I'm not going to be level 50 for a very long time (since I want to have fun with lowbie stuff, as well as level the big skills up through 49 for all paths)...that cuts that option short. =/

2.) Lightning Chaser: At current, my primary Genie is Strength-based, with Earthflame, Second Wind, Relentless Courage, and Tangling Mire. As such...it wouldn't exactly fit well with the rest. However, I've made many Genies so far (and will continue to make more), so it wouldn't be hard to make one and add this among some other Dex based choices. However...I have a feeling it wouldn't be nearly effective enough until higher levels, with LOTS of Dex added in. X_X

3.) Bramble Rage: LOL yeah right. Even IF I could make it happen at my level, the stamina cost is insane to use as a mere canceling tool. =/

4.) Assassin's Rib Strike: Most mobs/bosses I've dealt with thus far (both on this and other characters) follow a strict pattern of (X) attacks, then their magic attack (when applicable). Even when a special skill is thrown into the mix (EX: Qingzi, who stuns the tank, increases his attack speed, and heals himself at certain points in his HP), this pattern repeats from the first physical attack upon completion of the skill.

That being said, reducing a mobs attack speed should (in theory at least...haven't worked with a Sin that had access to this skill yet, tbh, but anyone I've asked swears it works) allow Shadowless Kick just enough time to cooldown, so as to allow consistent canceling. Or so I hope.

...Are there other options I could look into? Other places I can look for more info? And please no "LOL JUST FIND A CLERIC/BARB" or "JUST LEVEL NOOB" comments, if you would be so kind. Unless you're providing a viable suggestion alongside it of course. =(
Post edited by __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Dreaded_Fate - Lost City
    Dreaded_Fate - Lost City Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Suggestion #1 level as quick as you can. Overtime the spirit will come to.
    until level 80 focus on only 1 path. You will not have enough spirit to do so otherwise. It is not practical to do so. I use shadowless and earthquake to cancel.
    [EvilMarlon - Sanctuary] It would be nice to be a male veno i tryed a veno and my dad saw me and he thought i was **** it took me a whole month for him to even talk to me again. <-- LMAO b:chuckle
  • Axels - Harshlands
    Axels - Harshlands Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    for canceling Bosses id say shadowless kick then Smack(79 skill) then shadowless kick again then genie or something but thats at 79 and up >.< Works pretty great though in my opinion
  • Zyfou - Heavens Tear
    Zyfou - Heavens Tear Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Axels - Harshlands wrote: »
    for canceling Bosses id say shadowless kick then Smack(79 skill) then shadowless kick again then genie or something but thats at 79 and up >.< Works pretty great though in my opinion

    In my opinion, Smack doesn't work well in PvE. Instead of a normal stun it Seals a mob, which will cancel their channeling. However, the mob tends to run away from you instead of staying put. Just like you can't stun a boss (aside from some Wraith's Ploy and OHT bosses), you also can't Seal them.

    Before they nerfed a lot of genie skills, lvl1 Shadowless Kick and basic genie Lightning Chaser made a lot of the hardest bosses hit like babies.

    These days, I use Sword Stance debuff more than I rely on Lightning Chaser to hit after an SK; until I level it higher, figure out a better skill, or use it with a better genie. =/
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1568031001&dateline=1278493825[/SIGPIC]
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Zyfou - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Just like you can't stun a boss (aside from some Wraith's Ploy and OHT bosses), you also can't Seal them.

    Though you can't seal them, I've read that it still cancels the channel. I've never actually tried it. The long cold down makes it unpractical.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear
    ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Though you can't seal them, I've read that it still cancels the channel. I've never actually tried it. The long cold down makes it unpractical.

    Yes Smack does cancel bosses channel, and because unlike mobs they dont run its perfect.

    Used it on many occasions on Wurlord, Coredash, AE etc etc

    The only thing that lets it down is its longish cooldown and means with SK and Smack can only cancel 3 out of 4 channels. I normally drop Myriad on the 4th but a genie cancel skill would do.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    When I'm tanking a boss... I use the Shadowless Kick > Smack > Shadowless kick > Triple Spark, repeat... the hell spark doesn't cancel, but it gives a cleric a chance to throw in a few squad heals. Works for Wurlord in 2-3 just fine. Really don't need to cancel in Nirvana. As for other bosses... *shrug*
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Smack does indeed cancel. A basic Shadow>Smack>Shadow will cancel 3 out of 4 attacks (You can throw in a genie skill for a perfect 4). And shadowless can be done even unarmed, so it doesn't matter what weapon path you choose. Basically any decent DD BM above 80 should know about this trick, it helps the squad a great deal against aoe and hard hitting bosses, such as wurlord, pole, guar, dimentora ect.

    Since I don't have any cancel on my genie I usually go Shadow>Smack>Shadow>Myraid>Repeat on tough bosses.

    Spark comes in very handy when tanking difficult bosses like pole. Time it just when he channels and there's a good chance you'll resist the debuff. Or of course, at sage demon you can save your spark and purify yourself if you do get debuffed.
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Triple Spark -> Shadowless -> Triple Spark is pretty much the order I use tanking. Time the sparks so it goes off right before boss casting animation happens, and you'll resist the magic and be hit by the physical hit right after. Waiting till the last minute can ruin it, since with a high attack speed it will have you finish your attack sequence first. So safest to aim for right before, and be guaranteed to spark during the spell.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Starchief - Sanctuary
    Starchief - Sanctuary Posts: 606 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Triple Spark -> Shadowless -> Triple Spark is pretty much the order I use tanking. Time the sparks so it goes off right before boss casting animation happens, and you'll resist the magic and be hit by the physical hit right after. Waiting till the last minute can ruin it, since with a high attack speed it will have you finish your attack sequence first. So safest to aim for right before, and be guaranteed to spark during the spell.

    wait wut? O.o how do you triple spark? You shouldnt have triple spark yet.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • maocchi
    maocchi Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Starchief - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wait wut? O.o how do you triple spark? You shouldnt have triple spark yet.

    He is much higher level than his malfunctioning avatar.
  • __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver
    __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Triple Spark -> Shadowless -> Triple Spark is pretty much the order I use tanking. Time the sparks so it goes off right before boss casting animation happens, and you'll resist the magic and be hit by the physical hit right after. Waiting till the last minute can ruin it, since with a high attack speed it will have you finish your attack sequence first. So safest to aim for right before, and be guaranteed to spark during the spell.

    This is actually the method I've been using currently, while hoping for alternatives since only having 1 second to work with/trying to time Spark Eruption to animation-less special attacks sucks. That and AoE bosses concern me. Not necessarily for myself, so much as for squishies that decide to stand there and take hits that they really can't take effectively. XD;;;

    Oh well. I'll just practice some more I guess. And to be fair 90% chance to cancel off of Level 9 Earthquake isn't all that bad if it works.

    TY very much for the input. Got some more stuff to work towards. b:kiss
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    use the leaps to approach mobs. It will cancell the first mag attack.

    it works on water, air and ground.

    I prefer leap back as it only requires chi.

    However, you have to make sure you land right next to the mob and that you start the leap outside of the agro zone.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited February 2010
    This content has been removed.
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    This is actually the method I've been using currently, while hoping for alternatives since only having 1 second to work with/trying to time Spark Eruption to animation-less special attacks sucks. That and AoE bosses concern me. Not necessarily for myself, so much as for squishies that decide to stand there and take hits that they really can't take effectively. XD;;;

    Oh well. I'll just practice some more I guess. And to be fair 90% chance to cancel off of Level 9 Earthquake isn't all that bad if it works.

    TY very much for the input. Got some more stuff to work towards. b:kiss

    If it's an instance that you go to often and face the same bosses, you can count the number of attacks between each one when they go off. The slow attacks each count as one, and the 2 quick attacks they sometimes get usually count as one as well. The total number is usually 4-5, or you can try using a stopwatch/clock to track the skill casts after the first one goes off. It helps to break off the attack a second before to ensure the attack animation is completed should the boss have too fast of a channel to leave it to chance. Every 10 secs is the usual rule of thumb, and is why barb's usually leave their cancel under-leveled since it means after getting the timing once they can hit it on recharge to make it easier. Thing to watch out for, is if you're not the main tank you can draw aggro through cancelling the boss, and on some bosses each time aggro shifts a boss will cast his skill.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • CuteLilDemon - Lost City
    CuteLilDemon - Lost City Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    then is it worth it to max shadowless kick skill?
    or can it still cancel when its at lvl1?
  • __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver
    __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Unlike Alacrity of the Beast, Shadowless Kick doesn't get a faster cooldown as it levels. Only a minuscule damage boost, unless you plan on going Sage and bumping it to 11. At which point cooldown is reduced to 10 seconds.

    But yes. Assuming your timing is good, it cancels pretty much perfectly upon hit. Unless of course you miss the mob completely.
  • __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver
    __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Double-post, yes...but I felt compelled to post my thanks.

    Pulled all the info gathered here together with some practice and managed my first (hopefully of many) Perfect run vs. Qingzi (meaning canceled/blocked every magic attack, save for the stun). So thank you! b:thanks

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