My take on veno genie

MANray_ - Sanctuary
MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
edited January 2010 in Venomancer
Hi, wanted to see if i could get some constructive criticism on an idea i have for building a genie. Not terribly original, i'm trying to stick to established wisdom on this one.

Genie; Longevity (Dex)
Stats; Str 60 Vit 5 Mag 3 Dex All remaining points
Lucky points; Eventually at least 61, 3 extra skill slots although only 2 are needed
Skills; Tree of Protection, Extreme Poison, Holy Path, Earthquake, Fortify and Occult Ice.

The stats are meant to take full advantage of ToP, although it may be later necessary to add more point to vits for Fortify and Ocult Ice. At my level i can get the first 4 skills, would later work on Fortify and add Ocult Ice last. The basic plan is for a PvE genie that can ocasionally handle some PvP as well. Since Dex seems the most useful stat for this skill set, i thought longevity would be the way to go. What am i missing here? Am i leaving important skills out? I'm really not interested in using zeal for pulling (especially as it seems everyone keeps one handy in case i would ever encounter something Tame Pet/regular pet luring couldn't handle) and would like to keep things simple for myself and avoid keeping a second genie if at all possible.

Also, is the stating i chose effective? Some factor may have escaped me and perhaps using the Str points in Dex could be more effective.

Thank you for reading my post, and thanks in advance for any advice for advice you may provide.
Post edited by MANray_ - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    ToP is rubbish now. It really really is. Try second wind as an alternative.

    Edit: To clarify - it's reallllly good if you've got huge number of HP - it's rubbish for squishy arcanes.
  • Lythiaana - Dreamweaver
    Lythiaana - Dreamweaver Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ditto to what Vit said. Tree of Protection is really useless now. The healing amount is nerfed and if you want hp regen fast, you're not going to get it much with ToP compared to Second Wind now. You'd be dead b:chuckle
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Thank you for your quick answers. I considered Second Wind, but found that since it's purely based on Str it doesn't really work out with the other skills i've chosen. Edited out incoherent rubbish that was fortunately not addressed in the thread.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    ToP is horrible for emergencies where you need HP immediately, however If I foresee my toon as being hit for a while before I can stop it: ToP can leave me better off than Second Wind. I think of it as healing over time vs a quick fix. (could be affected by your genie's build)

    Holy Path I consider a Must Have, though I rarely use it ( or genie skills for that matter). Sometimes neither ToP or SW will save me (like when fleeing a World Boss), but HP will.

    Then there's Abosolute Domain which makes you immune to all dmg for for a mere 2.2 seconds, but makes you immune to immobilization for 2 secs after (time to use Feral Concentration). -I believe there may be another skill that works better with Feral?
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  • Esuna - Raging Tide
    Esuna - Raging Tide Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    ToP is horrible for emergencies where you need HP immediately, however If I foresee my toon as being hit for a while before I can stop it: ToP can leave me better off than Second Wind. I think of it as healing over time vs a quick fix. (could be affected by your genie's build)

    Holy Path I consider a Must Have, though I rarely use it ( or genie skills for that matter). Sometimes neither ToP or SW will save me (like when fleeing a World Boss), but HP will.

    Then there's Abosolute Domain which makes you immune to all dmg for for a mere 2.2 seconds, but makes you immune to immobilization for 2 secs after (time to use Feral Concentration). -I believe there may be another skill that works better with Feral?

    Abs. Domain gets longer. At LV5 it's 3.2 sec immunity.
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  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ToP is rubbish now. It really really is. Try second wind as an alternative.
    For the same number of genie points and energy spent (level 10 Second Wind, level 6 ToP), ToP ends up becoming better than Second Wind when you have more than about 3200-4400 hp. The more genie points, the higher the break-even hp.

    If you're willing to go up to ToP 10 (115 energy), the tradeoff hp range drops down to 1900-3200.

    I've got a program to figure out the optimal point distribution for ToP on the back burner (PWI made it WAY too complicated). So that's just an estimated range for now. Generally, ToP ends up maximized if you dump most of your points into dex (up til about 60/24, when it becomes better to have 60 str, 24 dex). So if none of your other genie skills are str-dependent, ToP is probably the better choice above level 70-80.
    tweakz wrote: »
    Then there's Abosolute Domain which makes you immune to all dmg for for a mere 2.2 seconds, but makes you immune to immobilization for 2 secs after (time to use Feral Concentration). -I believe there may be another skill that works better with Feral?
    Fortify. Just need it at level 1, which is only 55 energy. Makes you immune to stun for a few sec, so start casting Feral, then hit Fortify.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Fortify. Just need it at level 1, which is only 55 energy. Makes you immune to stun for a few sec, so start casting Feral, then hit Fortify.

    Thank you. It sounds so far like Absolute Domain may be better since Feral Concentration takes 3 seconds to channel and 1 second to cast which leaves you vulnerable for a long time while Absolute Domain makes you invulnerable during most of that time?
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  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    i had second wind i remove it. it was like 1.5k HP on my genie while i have alot more hp so ToP is much better for me
  • XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary
    XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary Posts: 683 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    i had second wind i remove it. it was like 1.5k HP on my genie while i have alot more hp so ToP is much better for me

    same with me. second wind doesnt even get half of my hp. ToP will get me to full health unlike second wind.
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  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Thanks again for your answers. I think i'll go with ToP since all other skills i've settled on are based on Dex. Also, i think a HoT fits my playing style better, and i'm satisfied with the way ToP works on my current genie.

    Keeping the stats i noted on my first post, i'm currently settled on adding; ToP (heal), Holy Path (speed burst), Earthquake (knockback/interrupt) and Extreme Poison (debuff).

    By far EP is the skill i use the most, always along Amplify Damage, with ToP being a distant second. I've decided against Occult Ice since it is Str based (might have to think of a PvP genie after all).

    As for wether to skill Absolute Domain or Fortify, i'm sort of in the fence here. Guess i'll continue to look into it before making a choice.

    Also, any suggestions about one or two aditional skills? I like some of the higher level ones (Expel, Cloud Eruption) but i'm not sure at the moment. Bear in mind i think this will become a full PvE genie.
  • WhatTheFox - Raging Tide
    WhatTheFox - Raging Tide Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    At later levels when you have tons and tons of affinities to throw around I would go with absolute domain, but until then I think fortify is by far the better choice since it only needs 1 more wood than EP.
  • Lythiaana - Dreamweaver
    Lythiaana - Dreamweaver Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    So is ToP still useful when it is maxed? I was debating over that between Second Wind, since you guys seem to say that ToP heals overall a much higher value of HP. And is Dex or Str preferred?
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lythiaana - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    So is ToP still useful when it is maxed? I was debating over that between Second Wind, since you guys seem to say that ToP heals overall a much higher value of HP. And is Dex or Str preferred?
    As I said, for a level 6 ToP, it becomes better than Second Wind if you have more than roughly 3200-4400 hp (based on 0-150 genie stat points). For a level 10 ToP (which has a 115 energy cost), the tradeoff point is 1900-3200 hp. If you have more hp than that, ToP will heal more than Second Wind. If you have fewer hp, Second Wind will heal more.

    At low or balanced point allocation, dex helps ToP more. But if you're planning to get a genie up to 60 str, the advantage shifts to str at about 60 str / 24 dex (vs. 60 dex / 24 str, or 69 dex / 5 str). 60 str is the point when the hp buff applies to both heal ticks, instead of just the first tick.

    Disclaimer: I haven't finished investigating ToP's solution space. These are just preliminary conclusions, and could be wrong.
  • Lythiaana - Dreamweaver
    Lythiaana - Dreamweaver Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ah, thanks for clearing everything up Sol. I'll try to look into it b:victory

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