Basic Squad Manners

Psytrac - Dreamweaver · January 2010

sounds like this to me:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=579682

we've all ad our great instances of retardedness, just my group couldn't push ahead of me, or I'm sure they would have tried

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · January 2010

I agree with this too. Today I joined a gamma squad. (Im an exped veno with a herc.) And immediately got dumped out of the squad without any warning because the tank wanted a different veno. Needless to say I was offended.

Psytrac - Dreamweaver · January 2010

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree with this too. Today I joined a gamma squad. (Im an exped veno with a herc.) And immediately got dumped out of the squad without any warning because the tank wanted a different veno. Needless to say I was offended.

happens to me in various instances cause I don't have a herc. you'e not alone in the random mistreatment area

Abominus - Sanctuary · January 2010

I'd only like to add one thing I've experienced with a couple of different Barbs, maybe twice or so. Partially it stems from running ahead and attacking enemies while I catch up (my genie is only good for two spurts of Holy Path at any given time). It typically will happen when there's a full squad, and more than one cleric. The Barb will say, "X number of clerics...why my charm ticking!?" or something that that effect.

In cases where you're the primary tank, I can kind of, maybe, possibly, slightly see your rationale for making such a remark, but if you don't protect your cleric your cleric can't protect you (in both instances where this happened the barb ran off, and I had to fight off a mob...ironically the other cleric stopped to heal while I did so). The other side of the coin, and this probably irks me even more is the bit of arrogance that goes along making that statement...what you're saying is it's ok for me to burn out my magic charm spam healing you, or BBing for the party, but it's not ok that your charm has to take a hit or two every now and then. As if Spirit charms are given away and Guardian charms cost money.

It may be a nitpick, but I tell you, that's the fastest way to get one (or both) of your clerics to abandon you. The bottom line is we all have roles and expenses that are invested when we go out on these quests. To insinuate that your role and expense is somehow above someone else's is just poor taste.

Damewort - Sanctuary · January 2010

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There are basic problems that have been increasing gradually over the year the game has been out, and it is an issue that players need to think about and correct.

Member Switching/Job Switching: its very rude to accept a player for a particular position in a squad, especially tank, only to dump him or take on a veno with a herc instead. Perhaps the veno is stronger than the first choice- its a matter of courtesy. To drop someone, or relegate to a lesser DD position is a slap in the face to the player you had asked first. If one wishes to retain friends, its best not to disregard their feelings.

Agree... It is rude to kick someone out of squad just cause you got a "better" player. But to change "jobs" - why not? I often volunteer to tank bosses in TT/FC even when barb is there, for a simple reason - to reduce their costs and make it faster. But usually it is better to ask if they mind if you tank.

[*]Starting an Instance Before Members are Together: Far too often I have seen squads start an instance before the full squad has assembled. Now, that may be acceptable for players who are familiar with the dungeon, and strong enough to handle any stray mobs left behind. But I have seen many times when a squad runs ahead and leaves members behind, both before they have even gotten to the dungeon, and because the squad doesn't maintain formation. This can mean the death of members, especially if the one left behind is the cleric. I've been called to bring my cleric to help squads, but had the squad refuse to wait for me to come. While inroute, I get yells for help that they need me/are dead/etc. This has happened to me so often now that when a squad refuses to wait till I am there with them, I tell them they obviously don't need me, and leave the squad.

Unless one of members needs those mobs too, I see no problem with not waiting. Especially if you can handle them. I find it more rude that you make your squad wait, just cause you dont want to spend some coins to teleport in instance or at least to closest town. If you are making squad to wait on you, then they just as well might start to clean cave. Surprisingly, but comment "If you don't mind, I will start to clean" actually makes people arrive faster. Don't make squad wait on you and mostly they will wait for you.

[*] But I also have been in situations while in a squad where the members have run ahead, while I was busy with a player, or getting myself pulled back together after getting hit by things that others didn't keep off me. Sometimes, they would wait, and let me catch up, other times, they don't, which results in me getting killed or the main group getting to the boss without me to heal the tank and others=party wipe.

It is rude to attack boss before all squad is there. That's what I dislike as well.

Gve - Sanctuary · January 2010

only thing going to say is squad manner is important only time i permit ppl leaving is an emergency. Plus make sure cleric is not left behind

Chilo - Heavens Tear · January 2010

I agree the casual curtesy should apply to the ingame behaviour. And that quite often it is missing. In the same time, generalization is a sin b:chuckle

First - changes in squad...

I got into bh69 squad (pyro) and was pretty happy to learn it is tabbed run for all bosses (fb not announced in advance). Yay. Then it became clear someone will have to leave to make place for tank for pole. Was I offended that I was the one who was supposed to leave (there were 3 people who could leave without problem, teoretically)? Not really. Because the squad did it right way (stated reasons and was sorry for the situation), no harm was done. I got my bh and extra tab for it.

Second - starting instances...

BH this days is done in bulk and takes a lot of gaming time. Usually some players are in the instance much faster than others and clearing the way while waiting is quite normal and beneficial for all - it means less time for the run. Granted, if anyone has problems with the dungeon, he/she should have an escort. Asking for one is no big deal imho.

Basicly, almost anything goes if people talk to each other before acting and respect other people reasons and feelings. So OP is right - more courtesy makes better gaming experience b:pleased

Alliptica - Raging Tide · April 2010

i agree, ppl really need to wait for their squad members. it pisses me off when they start without me bcuz i couldnt afford to teleport and then they didnt clear all the mobs so im running through the instance alone with mobs on me

RaininFire - Sanctuary · June 2010

I only read this initially so I could agree with the general state of squad manners being on the verge of extinction. upon reading your post I find I actually strongly disagree with your points.

When I do an instance I want it to go as smoothly and as quickly as possible and if that means a barb of a not just a higher level but more experience and hp/pdef joins the squad then the 1st one gets relegated, when I play my barb and there is another in the squad we duel tank the adds in the cave and whoever is going to handle the boss best does so....what's the problem

would you ask a barb with lvl 10 beast kings inspiration to let the one with lvl 5 do the buffs because he was in the squad 1st......of course you wouldn't

I'm quite frankly sick of people treating TANK like some kind of glory role in the squad everyone there has a part to play, yes we cant do it without a cleric....I would love to see the cleric do it without us. yes we need a tank....but where would it be with no heals and even with the pair of them how much would the whole thing cost in repairs and mana without some good dd power to speed it all up.
Due to the lack of barbs around of late I have seen some awesome tanking done by all classes and what would be polite is if the 6 people that make the squad actually take the time to confer as to whom is best for the job without pride getting in the way.

As to your 2nd point nothing annoys me more than waiting forever for people to get to an instance, if you don't want people to start without you don't take for ever about getting there. Once again when I'm on my barb I always start to clear it helps build my chi before the dd's turn up, but I never do more on my own than I know I can manage ON MY OWN and quite frankly if your going to go diva and leave because I didn't wait then I'm glad we had the opportunity to replace you.
Vice versa sometimes I may be there waiting and afk or busy chatting while some smart alec rushes of to start and dies at 1st mobs only to have a go at me because I didn't join in and take his agro.....behave...if you cant do it....DONT, but at the end of the day its no skin of my nose if he has to wait for the cleric to turn up and get a res, it doesn't make me a fail barb so I don't see why you feel its your responsibility if the squad wipes out because they didn't wait. It makes them stupid not impolite.

So many problems in squads could easily be resolved with a little typing...

"can you wait for me I'm not sure of the way"
"can you come back something has re-spawned"
"what level buffs do you have.....I/you will buff then"
"can we also kill XXXX boss"

lots of simple things that if they are asked...read...and replied to would stop major fail later.

and just on a side note to the cost of teleports you can grind mobs for at least 10k's worth of drops in the time it takes to fly from arch to wraithgate or even worse down to dreamweaver port and don't even get me started on the time I waste waiting for people that STILL don't know how to stack their bh's and go back to HH after every boss kill.

don't tell me a few minutes when the timer has shown I have been in wraithgate for an hour and a half when we have spent no longer than 10 minutes each boss when squad is finally there. Stack you bh's pay one 10k tele in and stay and get the job done 1 hour free to go make your 10k back and more.

If it really bothers you...make the squad and buy the subs/wine then no one can start till your happy all is present and ready

Ranfa - Dreamweaver · June 2010

People clearing instance before all party members assemble does not bother me at all. On my Cleric I usually stone in to instances because I know most people like to start early. But when she's broke and has to fly from the nearest city (she doesn't get any financial aid from my main lol), I don't condemn them for starting without me. I'm not a royal subject that requests red carpet to be rolled and heads bowed when I enter an instance. If my squad has left me behind while I take my time getting there, then it's my responsibility to make sure I get through. If I require an assistance, then I will type it in the squad chat. Most of the times squaddies are nice enough to use their mana or Genie stamina to get to their Cleric as soon as possible.

Real manner here is to get there as soon as possible so to not have to waste other people's time. Your rage is only understood if they take out the boss before you are there, but that rarely happens from my experience.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · June 2010

i wonder if this counts as a necro-ed thread

Nakhimov - Lost City · June 2010

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

i wonder if this counts as a necro-ed thread

Necro or not it's a thread that deserved to die from the first post. b:surrender

Reshanta - Sanctuary · June 2010

Basic manners is to say nothing even if you don't like the group(or leave).

XylolyX - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Devinettie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thats 13k just to get to TT where then you Have repair costs and if my pet dies due to lag.. I have to pay for Pet food, Then.. to be the DD that dosn't get anything to sell but a few DQ mats and pots I can't use, If I can't cover my costs of teleing there.. then I'm not really needed..

Seriously?

Repair costs? Try tanking as a barb and then talk to me about repairs. Your repairs will be covered by DQ & coin drops inTT, where as a barb's are not.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Generally in BHs, I try to confer with my squad to decide whether we're clearing or not... though this happens less in BH69 or higher, because we all tend to wait for the person carrying the wines to arrive, and the winer usually waits for everyone to pay him/her.

In lesser BHs, 59 in particular, the squad often starts clearing before everyone has arrived. There's no problem with that, as long as they know what they're doing... and if they don't, they die and that's their own fault.

azurluen · June 2010

I don't have any problem with clearing cave before all arrive. When I'm on my Cleric, I wait. Or if someone who can start, using my assistance, arrives, then we start. BUt when on my Veno, I just strat arriving at cave. It saves time, and gives me more Darkness Stamps.

The problem it's when on dungeons like Bh59, for example, todays chain is: Qianji, Gluttonix, Drake

Then all we do Qianji.
And then, after some of the squad members go turn it, someone says:

-"Oh, I got Qianji again"

Then he leaves squad. Or worst, s/he says:

-"Oh, I got Zimo"

Then leaves squad. And all we know that today, we can't get Zimo... -__-

That's what I hate. Fail people who fail at stacking Bhs, and then leaves squads when they don't need the next boss the squad is doing.

If it's just a dd, no problem at all. But when it's the Barb or the Cleric, and no one can bring a friend to just help at that moment, then it's not that easy. A new Cleric or Barb will need the boss we already did, so we need to run it again.

Not that all do that. There are some people who stays untill it's finished, even if s/he doesn't need the others.

truekossy · June 2010

Well if it's a barb in 59 and below, just say **** the barb and let the strongest DD (or in the case of Wyern, a BM) tank and problem solved. For cleric, you'd need both someone who knows how to tank and a wiz (and possibly psy) to heal as well as you'd have to be more careful but, again, you can do without them for 59 and lower.

But things like what you described are why you should always try and find a group of people you can rely on for BHs. Less hassle, you may eventually all start stacking, and you don't have to worry about them just leaving in the middle of things.

azurluen · June 2010

Ah, yeah, more than Barb, was talking about Tank [forgot that 59 it's easier for Arcanes than for Barb].

But things like Wyvern, or even Rankar, are a bit difficult without a Barb. And you need a bit of Purify for the first one. When someone steals agro, they usually die with two hits. [unless they have a well shareded gear].

Ermosa - Heavens Tear · June 2010

i dont like idea about waiting cleric
if im carefull enough i can clean mobs myself by pulling them one by one on my chars or tanking them with my herc on veno. often many clerics and barbs decides to fly to town after bh and u srsly think any1 should 20 mins on u. i would better leave squad myself or boot ur **** and get cleric that have money or stacked bhs
heck i even start clearing cave solo on my cleric(bh59) cuz others r to slow and i have 4 chars to do bhs, i cant stand waiting or slow runs(like pulling every mob 1 by 1).

Fiery_Demon - Heavens Tear · June 2010

I agree that it's awfully rude when someone is being kicked from squad just because a person wants to invite a friend or someone stronger. It happened to me once, I was already in bh cave and I'd been waiting 30 mins for the whole squad to arrive, then I went afk just to get coffee and when I got back I had been kicked because squad leader wanted to invite a friend.

But I think it's only normal to start cleaning the cave before everyone has arrived. In my opinion, not the people who start cleaning, but the ones who are too cheap to use teleporter when everyone else are already in the cave, are rude. It really annoys me sometimes, because I try to do my bhs fast (I haven't got all day, you know). And if there's someone who is stupid enough to get killed while trying to catch up with others, it's their own fault for not saying they need help.

There are some more things that seem a lot more rude to me, for instance talking about someone like they weren't there. Like when person A asks "who will tank?" and person B says "person C can do it." without even asking them if they are capable of doing it (unless there's really no other choice). Or when people don't use names, instead they just say "the veno" or "the cleric". It's especially disturbing when there are more than one veno, or cleric, or whatever class in squad. I don't know how others feel about this, but I think that when you don't use a person's name when talking about them, it shows disrespect.

Another thing is when there's a full squad, and everyone thinks they're gonna do the whole chain. But after 1st boss, someone says "sry I gtg" and just leaves. At some point it's ok, like in bh29, but at bh69, when a tank leaves, it's really hard to find a new one. I don't get, why do people join anyway if they know that they aren't staying for the whole chain, but they won't even mention it before killing the boss?

Oh and of course, I just hate people who call everyone fail this and fail that. What gives a person right to call another one "failure"? Just because all players don't want to play their class exactly like everyone else, it's no reason to insult them. And everyone makes mistakes sometimes.

So basically because all of the stuff I mentioned above + everything else mentioned in this thread I never do TT or FF runs in a squad. When I know that I can't tolerate rude people, why should I even try?

Basic Squad Manners

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