Basic Squad Manners

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear · January 2010

There are basic problems that have been increasing gradually over the year the game has been out, and it is an issue that players need to think about and correct.

Member Switching/Job Switching: its very rude to accept a player for a particular position in a squad, especially tank, only to dump him or take on a veno with a herc instead. Perhaps the veno is stronger than the first choice- its a matter of courtesy. To drop someone, or relegate to a lesser DD position is a slap in the face to the player you had asked first. If one wishes to retain friends, its best not to disregard their feelings.
Starting an Instance Before Members are Together: Far too often I have seen squads start an instance before the full squad has assembled. Now, that may be acceptable for players who are familiar with the dungeon, and strong enough to handle any stray mobs left behind. But I have seen many times when a squad runs ahead and leaves members behind, both before they have even gotten to the dungeon, and because the squad doesn't maintain formation. This can mean the death of members, especially if the one left behind is the cleric. I've been called to bring my cleric to help squads, but had the squad refuse to wait for me to come. While inroute, I get yells for help that they need me/are dead/etc. This has happened to me so often now that when a squad refuses to wait till I am there with them, I tell them they obviously don't need me, and leave the squad.
But I also have been in situations while in a squad where the members have run ahead, while I was busy with a player, or getting myself pulled back together after getting hit by things that others didn't keep off me. Sometimes, they would wait, and let me catch up, other times, they don't, which results in me getting killed or the main group getting to the boss without me to heal the tank and others=party wipe.

These are two of many problems that are grounded in the general lack of courtesy and good manners ingame.

My hope is, by bringing this to peoples' attention, that folks will think before doing these things. These are such simple things, courtesy practiced daily in real life....when you go out to dinner, one doesn't call a friend, invite them, then call them again and tell them you have found someone more fun to dine with-unless you are trying to alienate that person! Or invite a group of friends to an amusement park, and run into the park without waiting for your friends. The point is to do things together, to have fun together...

And so it is here.

Aadi - Lost City · January 2010

So you're saying if you have a high 7x barb brought in for BH69, and then a 9x barb joins, you should let the 7x barb tank to save his pride?

...If I were that tank, I would be grateful not to have the repairs...

Although I do agree about the not waiting for clerics idea. I hate when barbs run ahead and leave me behind, and then start dying and I have to rush to catch up. b:sad

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To drop someone, or relegate to a lesser DD position is a slap in the face to the player you had asked first.

me are offended hamster.
b:cry
well....lets see how you like running RB without a DD, killing bosses without a DD, and generally clearing mobs in instances without a DD.
b:scorn

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver · January 2010

I think should be the 7x barb himself saying the other one or the herc veno if he wants to take over and not someone outside.When I did my fb69 I insisted to tank it even if we had a 9x barb in squad because I always tanked all my bosses.Call it pride,stupidity or alpha male syndrome but a tank is a good tank no matter the level.

Pot_Head/ - Lost City3 · January 2010

No offence but half the stuff you post in all your threads are kinda meanb:surrender
n yes I read it all n I don't agree with u eitherb:surrender

Aadi - Lost City · January 2010

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think should be the 7x barb himself saying the other one or the herc veno if he wants to take over and not someone outside.When I did my fb69 I insisted to tank it even if we had a 9x barb in squad because I always tanked all my bosses.Call it pride,stupidity or alpha male syndrome but a tank is a good tank no matter the level.

I would prefer the tank that can easily handle more because of level tank, honestly. Sure, a high 7x can tank BH69 with just me healing. But for example, the other day I did BH with a level 78 barb that I've done it with before. I was lagging so my purifies were slower than normal. He almost died multiple times because of that, where an 8x+ barb would not have. That little cushion of safety can mean the difference between life and death in an instance sometimes, and I don't feel that it should be sacrificed due to pride.

Luckily I rarely have that issue because my entire family plays clerics, so when we run BH together it doesn't matter who tanks since we all can heal if it gets bad b:chuckle

ChaoticTears - Harshlands · January 2010

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

So you're saying if you have a high 7x barb brought in for BH69, and then a 9x barb joins, you should let the 7x barb tank to save his pride?

I think her point is.. Not so much who tanks in the squad, but dumping one player from the squad who might need the BH or w/e just to get a higher level in.

_Axolotl_ - Sanctuary · January 2010

I agree that there is an issue in that basic courtesy is sometimes overlooked in squads (especially in PUGs) but i'm afraid i don't see eye to eye with you on the points you bring up.

Member switching/Job switching- Any job should be handled by whoever can do it in the safest most effective way. To pretend otherwise is too big a concession to vanity. I agree that if a tank is brought in and later replaced by a more adequate squad member, the player should not be asked to relinquish his spot on the group. However, anyone insisting on performing a job he's not the best qualified for, is disregarding a squad's common goal and endangering the rest of the squad. It's a far different thing if the squad agrees to let someone try out of curiosity or for fun.

Starting an instance before members are assembled- This saves the most valuable of resources in an MMO; time. I agree that people who start clearing a dungeon should be able to handle the affair on their own (minus the boss ofc) and that the cleric should not be left behind, meaning that they do have a duty to properly clear the way or return for other squad mates if enough time has elapsed it is reasonable to expect respawns. Other than that there's nothing wrong with people saving time if they can handle themselves and are not biting more than they can chew.

I should also point out that it is courtesy that people squaded to run an instance get on their way as soon as possible and on the fastest means that are available to them. I consider it far more rude to hear a cleric comment on the AH while i'm waiting for him...

Yes basic squad manners are an issue, but we may all have different views on this.

Edit; typo.

Aadi - Lost City · January 2010

ChaoticTears - Harshlands wrote: »

I think her point is.. Not so much who tanks in the squad, but dumping one player from the squad who might need the BH or w/e just to get a higher level in.

She also mentioned making the player a lesser DD though. If you have to kick the low level that needs it for a higher level I'd understand not being willing, but in the situation of the lower level having to DD instead of tank, I think that both the lower level and the party in general would benefit from it. Less worry of losing aggro, dying, etc for the party, less repairs for the player.

Vixey - Raging Tide · January 2010

I agree that there has been a lack of courtesy towards people when squading.

Personally the biggest issue is when someone refuses to listen to another's advice (especially when said advice comes from a veteran of the game who knows what they are doing). That is my biggest issue.

Another is when people play the blame game when they die "well she didn't heal me" or "you should have pulled aggro"..I'm sure there are other examples but those were just the basic's.

I guess a lot of players forget the reasonings for playing a game. It's not to be serious but to have fun and enjoy yourself. Really if something happens and I get into a party whipe I find it extremely funny. So what if I lost exp I'll grind it back later b:cute

Just my point of view I guess.

ChaoticTears - Harshlands · January 2010

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

She also mentioned making the player a lesser DD though. If you have to kick the low level that needs it for a higher level I'd understand not being willing, but in the situation of the lower level having to DD instead of tank, I think that both the lower level and the party in general would benefit from it. Less worry of losing aggro, dying, etc for the party, less repairs for the player.

Very true

Like to add to the squad manners.

LISTEN to the rest of the squad. Had to many times running BH79 with no barb and no cleric but with herc veno.
The herc veno can safely tank linus/brig, so you ask people nicely to control their agro and what they do !!! Drop nukes from the off stealing agro and causing the other squad members to rush around trying to save their squishy ****.
Had countless charm ticks due to some idiot archer/wiz who wanted to play the crit game.... Nxt time you can keep agro, we will kill the boss when ya dead.

So yeah have a bit of consideration for every member of the squad not just yourself

Xegeth - Dreamweaver · January 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

me are offended hamster.
b:cry
well....lets see how you like running RB without a DD, killing bosses without a DD, and generally clearing mobs in instances without a DD.
b:scorn

I agree here 100%. Speaking of the tank gets dragged into a "lesser DD position" does not only offend the DD classes out there, but shows how you yourself lack the manners and respect for others that you are preaching.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree here 100%. Speaking of the tank gets dragged into a "lesser DD position" does not only offend the DD classes out there, but shows how you yourself lack the manners and respect for others that you are preaching.

+100 for sure.

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver · January 2010

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Member Switching/Job Switching: its very rude to accept a player for a particular position in a squad, especially tank, only to dump him or take on a veno with a herc instead.

I agree, and I kinda disagree at the same time. I'm a BM who often has to play main tank. I will get annoyed if people don't trust me as a tank and insist on taking a barb or a veno with herc - or worse, leave squad because I'm the tank. I can understand in certain circumstances, but in general I do take pride in being a good tank.

However, I'm grateful if we have a, let's say, lower-level barb who can back me up in case something happens. And it does happen, I'm human, RL sometimes takes over, I have disconnection problems on my other computer. I'll gladly be an offtank when need be as well, in general if I'm running with players around my level, I'm expected to be an offtank more than a main tank. Doesn't bug me at all.

Starting an Instance Before Members are Together: Far too often I have seen squads start an instance before the full squad has assembled. Now, that may be acceptable for players who are familiar with the dungeon, and strong enough to handle any stray mobs left behind. But I have seen many times when a squad runs ahead and leaves members behind, both before they have even gotten to the dungeon, and because the squad doesn't maintain formation. This can mean the death of members, especially if the one left behind is the cleric. I've been called to bring my cleric to help squads, but had the squad refuse to wait for me to come. While inroute, I get yells for help that they need me/are dead/etc. This has happened to me so often now that when a squad refuses to wait till I am there with them, I tell them they obviously don't need me, and leave the squad.

Unless the following happens...
- Group is too lazy to kill patrols (FB51, 59, TT);
- Tabber or other member has said they needed mobs in the instance;
- Group has specified they wanted EVERYONE to be in the instance before starting;

... I don't think clearing without the rest of the group is a major lack of respect. I often start solo, and so far I've had ZERO complaints regarding this. I'll respect a team's choice if they want me to wait to start though. It's a chance to grab a drink, food, or a hug x]. And yes, I've had such requests outside mobs/respawning patrols. Most of the time I'm never in an instance because I need something in there anyways, I'm usually helping a tabber/BH group.

However, don't tell me you're ready and ask me to come in the instance RIGHT NOW, and then having me wait 30 minutes in because you're flying from Etherblade to DWP because you don't want to spend any cash on teleport. I've had this done to in few squads, and it doesn't end well. One of these times was for 2 FB59s, I've waited 45 minutes only to be then informed that our furst run would be unwined. That run alone lasted 3 hours and a half because the squad wanted to skip some mobs, and then it backfired on the squishies.

Now that's what I'd call disrespect. Make sure your squad knows what's coming.

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver · January 2010

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree here 100%. Speaking of the tank gets dragged into a "lesser DD position" does not only offend the DD classes out there, but shows how you yourself lack the manners and respect for others that you are preaching.

Maybe I'm giving the OP too much credit, but I'm not reading that comment the same way you guys are.

I'm reading more along the lines of someone being downgraded in terms of pecking order simply because someone else joins the party that's of a different class/higher level. For example, you happen to be in a random TT party, I join, and automatically everyone else decides I get to pick before you simply because I'm a Cleric. Even if I'm doing nothing but DD the whole time and your damage output is blowing me out of the water.

In which case I'd agree with the original post. That's simply unfair in a lot of respects.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver · January 2010

That is not even near to what she is saying in her start post. Or at least to how I read it.

It is not about TT droporder. It sounds like a general statement considering the "pride" of someone who was invited to tank but "only" gets to DD later on, because a better tank joined.

TT squads are really another topic... And I dun even wanna get started. I had clerics 10 lvl below me DDing and go afk half of the time and still getting ranked higher in drop order. (And that was even when I tanked Wurlord, lol.) So that is something I can understand pretty good...

Vixey - Raging Tide · January 2010

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That is not even near to what she is saying in her start post. Or at least to how I read it. It is not about TT droporder. It sounds like a general statement considering the "pride" of someone who was invited to tank but "only" gets to DD later on, because a better tank joined.

TT squads are really another topic... And I dun even wanna get started. I had clerics 10 lvl below me DDing and go afk half of the time and still getting ranked higher in drop order. (And that was even when I tanked Wurlord, lol.) So that is something I can understand pretty good...

~shivers at Wurlord~

I remember on my cleric I was the secondary healer for the Tank and RIGHT when I was healing my Router KICKED me from the internet. It was so bad. When I got back on the game though everyone was laughing cause apparently something happened that was funny. I think the veno we had used her Holy Path and was close to the exit and Wurlord caught up to her or something. Sorry I went off topic here. >.<;

Dustinmurphy - Harshlands · January 2010

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

blahblah blah follow what i do becaz what u do aint right

sorry but thats all ur sayin to me like playin god a lot

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · January 2010

Vixey - Raging Tide wrote: »

~shivers at Wurlord~

I remember on my cleric I was the secondary healer for the Tank and RIGHT when I was healing my Router KICKED me from the internet. It was so bad. When I got back on the game though everyone was laughing cause apparently something happened that was funny. I think the veno we had used her Holy Path and was close to the exit and Wurlord caught up to her or something. Sorry I went off topic here. >.<;

My cleric was BBing at Wurlord when I got disconnected. By the time I was able to log back on, it was time for me to rez the slain - they'd killed the Wurlord I'd been BBing for and pulled the next. The other cleric had gotten BB up, but it wasn't enough to keep the barb alive, and both of them had died.

StormHydra - Sanctuary · January 2010

*

* Starting an Instance Before Members are Together: Far too often I have seen squads start an instance before the full squad has assembled. Now, that may be acceptable for players who are familiar with the dungeon, and strong enough to handle any stray mobs left behind. But I have seen many times when a squad runs ahead and leaves members behind, both before they have even gotten to the dungeon, and because the squad doesn't maintain formation. This can mean the death of members, especially if the one left behind is the cleric. I've been called to bring my cleric to help squads, but had the squad refuse to wait for me to come. While inroute, I get yells for help that they need me/are dead/etc. This has happened to me so often now that when a squad refuses to wait till I am there with them, I tell them they obviously don't need me, and leave the squad.
* But I also have been in situations while in a squad where the members have run ahead, while I was busy with a player, or getting myself pulled back together after getting hit by things that others didn't keep off me. Sometimes, they would wait, and let me catch up, other times, they don't, which results in me getting killed or the main group getting to the boss without me to heal the tank and others=party wipe.

Uhhhh.
k lemme see
The first bit
People only do that because they dont have much time to do it, and assume that you CAN catch up. They will always wait at the boss for you because they need everybody there.
Stray mobs...Usually "stray mobs" left behind are ones that YOU CAN DODGE. IE walk past without taking aggro. Like hugging the wall etc. This is like the groups of mobs at the end of FB51, the two mobs at the start of FB59 etc.
Yeah theres always patrols walking by, but if A GROUP OF FIVE PEOPLE can walk past the patrols at the right time, certainly A SINGLE PERSON can walk past. Yes, clerics are slower, but if the whole group can walk past (read: including wizards, who move at the same speed as clerics), you can too.
Since your a single person just be more cautious.

Second bit..
I dont see how you could get killed by being left behind. If they have cleared the way, the way behind you should be safe. Moving patrols...You shouldve known that there are patrols there. Sure if its an FB and not a BH this would make sense (because its their firsrt time in the dungeon or something) but really, you shouldnt heal while in the path of mobs.
If anything, the GROUP would die if the cleric is left behind. And when you say "pulling yourself together" thats obviously a single pot or heal. A pot you can use while running. A heal is almost instant, a second of standing there with ironheart. Again I dont see how you could die.

The first bit in your post that i didnt quote is right though.

Vixey - Raging Tide · January 2010

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My cleric was BBing at Wurlord when I got disconnected. By the time I was able to log back on, it was time for me to rez the slain - they'd killed the Wurlord I'd been BBing for and pulled the next. The other cleric had gotten BB up, but it wasn't enough to keep the barb alive, and both of them had died.

Yea basically what happened is by the time I got back on everyone but me (don't know how that happened) and the Wizard with us was dead. I thought I was gonna get screamed at but people were laughin and I had this look you wouldn't imagine thinkin they went crazy lol. We had fun ;p

StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Uhhhh.
k lemme see
The first bit
People only do that because they dont have much time to do it, and assume that you CAN catch up. They will always wait at the boss for you because they need everybody there.
Stray mobs...Usually "stray mobs" left behind are ones that YOU CAN DODGE. IE walk past without taking aggro. Like hugging the wall etc. This is like the groups of mobs at the end of FB51, the two mobs at the start of FB59 etc.
Yeah theres always patrols walking by, but if A GROUP OF FIVE PEOPLE can walk past the patrols at the right time, certainly A SINGLE PERSON can walk past. Yes, clerics are slower, but if the whole group can walk past (read: including wizards, who move at the same speed as clerics), you can too.
Since your a single person just be more cautious.

Second bit..
I dont see how you could get killed by being left behind. If they have cleared the way, the way behind you should be safe. Moving patrols...You shouldve known that there are patrols there. Sure if its an FB and not a BH this would make sense (because its their firsrt time in the dungeon or something) but really, you shouldnt heal while in the path of mobs.
If anything, the GROUP would die if the cleric is left behind. And when you say "pulling yourself together" thats obviously a single pot or heal. A pot you can use while running. A heal is almost instant, a second of standing there with ironheart. Again I dont see how you could die.

The first bit in your post that i didnt quote is right though.

The only thing I have to say about leaving the cleric behind is don't charge into mobs unless you know you can do it w/o a cleric healing you. Because I'm sure the Cleric (if they are decent that is) is trying to catch up as best they can. IJS

hemoglobin · January 2010

hmm, ive been in situations like this before, when we had 5 people in squad and needed a cleric and the leader invited someone who wasnt a cleric and the squad was like we need a clericd so the leader kicked that person and disapointed just because they werent thinking.

and once when i was a cleric i was invited to a squad and back in that day 3 clerics was too much for one squad so they kicked me.b:sad WHY DONT THEY LOOK AT THE FING CLASS OF THE PERSON BEFORE THEY INVITE!

Foxx - Heavens Tear · January 2010

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

only to dump him or take on a veno with a herc instead. Perhaps the veno is stronger than the first choice- its a matter of courtesy

I agree its wrong to kick the lower veno to replace him (unless theres a good reason). As for not inviting another veno if you have free spots, what a load of rubbish.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Starting an Instance Before Members are Together: Far too often I have seen squads start an instance before the full squad has assembled

Far too often I have had to wait for someone who is slow, or wants to save 1k coins by not teleporting. So long as they dont leave mobs blocking the way I dont see a problem.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But I also have been in situations while in a squad where the members have run ahead, while I was busy with a player

busy with a player?
Since when do venos have problems keeping up with the group anyway.
For clerics yes you have a point.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear · January 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

me are offended hamster.
b:cry
well....lets see how you like running RB without a DD, killing bosses without a DD, and generally clearing mobs in instances without a DD.
b:scorn

You took what she's saying wrong. If you have 2 barbs in a squad, only one of them can (or should) tank the bosses. The other is then a standard damage dealing position as you only need 1 tank. In a tt run for instance this would be a big deal given the normal tt distribution. Which for the record I don't agree with anyways.

ChaoticTears - Harshlands wrote: »

I think her point is.. Not so much who tanks in the squad, but dumping one player from the squad who might need the BH or w/e just to get a higher level in.

Right... or as mentioned above. Asking and inviting one person to do the tanking then suddenly another person needing it joins and then the first person instead of being tank is then a DD. As I said, this is extremely going to be bad in TT runs.

_Axolotl_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree that there is an issue in that basic courtesy is sometimes overlooked in squads (especially in PUGs) but i'm afraid i don't see eye to eye with you on the points you bring up.

Member switching/Job switching- Any job should be handled by whoever can do it in the safest most effective way. To pretend otherwise is too big a concession to vanity. I agree that if a tank is brought in and later replaced by a more adequate squad member, the player should not be asked to relinquish his spot on the group. However, anyone insisting on performing a job he's not the best qualified for, is disregarding a squad's common goal and endangering the rest of the squad. It's a far different thing if the squad agrees to let someone try out of curiosity or for fun.

Then they should have got that member first! You don't ask a barb "hey would you tank tt 2-1" and add them to squad and then another barb you invited finally answers who is 8 lvls higher and then have them join only to tell the other barb well you can still go but now "higher" barb will tank and you will be put in a dd position.

This would be the equivalent of asking a cleric to go and a wizard, and because the wizard can also heal and he/she is a higher lvl tell the cleric they now are considered a DD.

Starting an instance before members are assembled- This saves the most valuable of resources in an MMO; time. I agree that people who start clearing a dungeon should be able to handle the affair on their own (minus the boss ofc) and that the cleric should not be left behind, meaning that they do have a duty to properly clear the way or return for other squad mates if enough time has elapsed it is reasonable to expect respawns. Other than that there's nothing wrong with people saving time if they can handle themselves and are not biting more than they can chew.

Maybe you see this as acceptable, but how about in instances like 69. Where once you kill the deadmarsh guardian, 3 taurox captains and another guardian spawn up near the beginning? Then anyone who was a bit later getting in has to either wait for everyone to come back, kill the mobs; or they have to try to go around them and possibly die. Waiting also ensures that everyone gets buffed. Really, 3 extra minutes waiting isn't going to make that much of a different.

I should also point out that it is courtesy that people squaded to run an instance get on their way as soon as possible and on the fastest means that are available to them. I consider it far more rude to hear a cleric comment on the AH while i'm waiting for him...

Yes, this is true. However; my husband always expects me to teleport everywhere, because that is what he does. Well I didn't spend millions on the fastest wings so I could teleport. I fly. So while someone can push 2 buttons and spend 10k coins to get into the instance, it will take me 3-5 minutes longer while I fly there. This is acceptable, however; someone yakking it up about what they are looking for in the a/h while you are waiting for them, would get a drop from squad by me.

Yes basic squad manners are an issue, but we may all have different views on this.

Of course we do Just like everyone has a different view on what is acceptable in chat and what isn't. But that is an entirely different topic!

Edit; typo.

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver · January 2010

If you can't take agrro from all the mobs around you don't charge into mobs at all because as soon as the cleric will cast to heal you the rest of the mobs that have hate 0 towards you will go for the cleric and probably kill him probably.

KeMeK - Heavens Tear · January 2010

*coughs* I have been replaced from tanking an FF by a lvl 79 veno recently, as well as a 93 wizzy. WTF.....

Devinettie - Heavens Tear · January 2010

I've been in many parties where I'm the only veno and they want me to lure mobs... and I'll get there as fast as I can... (I'll tele via major cities but small ones.. I'll fly not use wasting 5k to travel a small distance) Only to find they have run ahead and have killed themselves or messed up the mobs... I understand sometimes they already had the party and their veno left or such... But when I'm invited to the beginning of the Party to lure.. you better wait.. If you can't wait 5-10 mins.. your not worth my time.. and My repair costs....

Example.
Start in archo..
Tele to City of Lost

3k
Tele to sundown

5k
Tele to Town of arrivals-- 5k

Thats 13k just to get to TT where then you Have repair costs and if my pet dies due to lag.. I have to pay for Pet food, Then.. to be the DD that dosn't get anything to sell but a few DQ mats and pots I can't use, If I can't cover my costs of teleing there.. then I'm not really needed..

Weesa - Heavens Tear · January 2010

lets not forget about asking for a party to do a FB or BH and having the party go in rush the mob and get the whole party killed and then leaving squad and LOLing about it.
It was something they planned and it's not funny if your left there to return to town or hopefully find a cleric willing to come in and res you and have to start all over again.
IT leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and makes one unwilling to party with people they don't know.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Devinettie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've been in many parties where I'm the only veno and they want me to lure mobs... and I'll get there as fast as I can... (I'll tele via major cities but small ones.. I'll fly not use wasting 5k to travel a small distance) Only to find they have run ahead and have killed themselves or messed up the mobs... I understand sometimes they already had the party and their veno left or such... But when I'm invited to the beginning of the Party to lure.. you better wait.. If you can't wait 5-10 mins.. your not worth my time.. and My repair costs....

Example.
Start in archo..
Tele to City of Lost
3k
Tele to sundown
5k
Tele to Town of arrivals-- 5k

Thats 13k just to get to TT where then you Have repair costs and if my pet dies due to lag.. I have to pay for Pet food, Then.. to be the DD that dosn't get anything to sell but a few DQ mats and pots I can't use, If I can't cover my costs of teleing there.. then I'm not really needed..

Repair bills? Veno's have the lowest repair bill that im aware off.

13k to a TT? Why not take the illusion stone to TT and it costs 8k i believe. The quicker people get there the quicker it gets done which means the quicker u can do another TT, BH, Quests or grind which will earn the money back (except BH of course).

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · January 2010

KeMeK - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*coughs* I have been replaced from tanking an FF by a lvl 79 veno recently, as well as a 93 wizzy. WTF.....

The best tank I have personally witnessed so far for FF is a level 95 wizard. We had 1 cleric in the party, and another wizard who only healed at the I-spam-white-axes boss. She wore Arcane Armor, and had a BM buff.

I am not justifying any form of discourtesy that may have been done upon you. I am merely saying that wizards can tank FF.

Mochii - Heavens Tear · January 2010

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Starting an Instance Before Members are Together: Far too often I have seen squads start an instance before the full squad has assembled. Now, that may be acceptable for players who are familiar with the dungeon, and strong enough to handle any stray mobs left behind. But I have seen many times when a squad runs ahead and leaves members behind, both before they have even gotten to the dungeon, and because the squad doesn't maintain formation. This can mean the death of members, especially if the one left behind is the cleric. I've been called to bring my cleric to help squads, but had the squad refuse to wait for me to come. While inroute, I get yells for help that they need me/are dead/etc. This has happened to me so often now that when a squad refuses to wait till I am there with them, I tell them they obviously don't need me, and leave the squad.

But I also have been in situations while in a squad where the members have run ahead, while I was busy with a player, or getting myself pulled back together after getting hit by things that others didn't keep off me. Sometimes, they would wait, and let me catch up, other times, they don't, which results in me getting killed or the main group getting to the boss without me to heal the tank and others=party wipe.

I will agree with you on this one because I experienced it today. I had joined a squad and immediately upon getting our last member.... without a word, a blademaster and his assassin friend ran ahead with the cleric. Another member and I tried (I was unfamiliar with the dungeon)to catch up but I was held back by attacking mobs even when I tried walking around them. In the end, I died.
b:cry

I didn't think it'd be so difficult to ask if everyone is ready and begin on the same page. I wasn't light years away from the place. 2-3 minutes of wait is minuscule compared to the hours spent on a game.

It was just really... Sloppy.

Basic Squad Manners

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