Attack level and defence level

_Tsunami_ - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Hi, i would like to know how the attack level and defence level work, and how much it can improve attack/defence for every level got (i mean whit skills like chill of the deep and tide form)

thank you

Astoru - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Adds 1% either way for each point you have. 1 atk lvl adds 1% of your attack damage to itself, while 1 def level reduces damage received by 1%

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear · January 2010

I am only to lvl 49 on my assassin, but I can tell you this:

I learned chill of the deep, 16 attack lvl. I learned "frenzy" the genie skill which grants you extra attack. When I combine both I have an attack level of 30. Which is INSANE!! I am LOVING it. That combined with blood paint is a phenomenal win/win combination. Even though we are light arms, I can already fight mobs 8 lvls higher then me without much effort. Just using an HP pot in combination. Of course, I am also not doing a pure dex build, I'm putting in on vit as well some. I have about 1/3 the vit as I do dex.

Back on topic:

I am not sure of the percentages, but it is a vast noticable difference. On a mob I was hitting for say 700, I used chill of the deep and frenzy and was then hitting for around 1700-2k. Thats a big difference. (normal attack of course)

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · January 2010

Doesn't Chill of the Deep slow your normal attack speed significantly?

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Doesn't Chill of the Deep slow your normal attack speed significantly?

It does slow your attack speed, which would only be a big deal if you were a class with slow weapons to begin with. Daggers are already hella fast! I'd rather kill something in 3 hits a little slower than in 7 hits a little bit faster. It comes down to which is actually faster, in my experience using that combination is faster than without using it.

But Assassins are still very new. I am in no way an expert on the class. I am levling my assassin very slow, as I want to be able to know my class and try to learn from those who are ahead of me so I dont' waste spirit/coins and time on useless skills.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · January 2010

link here
big talk

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=422082

Kristoph - Lost City · January 2010

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It does slow your attack speed, which would only be a big deal if you were a class with slow weapons to begin with. Daggers are already hella fast! I'd rather kill something in 3 hits a little slower than in 7 hits a little bit faster. It comes down to which is actually faster, in my experience using that combination is faster than without using it.

But Assassins are still very new. I am in no way an expert on the class. I am levling my assassin very slow, as I want to be able to know my class and try to learn from those who are ahead of me so I dont' waste spirit/coins and time on useless skills.

It's rather easy to figure out what skills are good... and spirit comes fast. I already maxed 30% of my skills on my sin while leveling it to 70, and a lot of other skills at 5. That and a lot of skills do most of what you want @ lv1.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

It's rather easy to figure out what skills are good... and spirit comes fast. I already maxed 30% of my skills on my sin while leveling it to 70, and a lot of other skills at 5. That and a lot of skills do most of what you want @ lv1.

Yes, a lot of the assassin skills don't get better with lvl. They just last longer etc..I can be bothered to rebuff myself every 5-10 mins rather than wasting spirit/coins to have to do it only every 30.

_Tsunami_ - Heavens Tear · January 2010

So,if i get +1 defence lvl i get +1% total defence stats? (exemple: defence 3000 should become defence 3030? )

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · January 2010

_Tsunami_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So,if i get +1 defence lvl i get +1% total defence stats? (exemple: defence 3000 should become defence 3030? )

No you end up taking 1% less damage. I am guessing the formula is

final damage = damage dealt * (100 + damage dealer attack level - damage taker defense level) / 100

In fb19 I have verified that +1 attack level is exactly 1% more damage when the target has 0 defense level (punching with no blessing is 410 damage, with a blessing 451 damage, with a blessing and +20 attack level from frenzy 533 damage).

_Tsunami_ - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

No you end up taking 1% less damage. I am guessing the formula is

final damage = damage dealt * (100 + damage dealer attack level - damage taker defense level) / 100

In fb19 I have verified that +1 attack level is exactly 1% more damage when the target has 0 defense level (punching with no blessing is 410 damage, with a blessing 451 damage, with a blessing and +20 attack level from frenzy 533 damage).

So (as Astoru said) +1 def lvl mean -1% damage got from any source? (both phy and mag)

nimh88 · January 2010

If you open up your Character Info screen, and hover your mouse over to where it says Physical Def. you will see something like: Physical Resistance Damage from level xx enemy attacks will be reduced by xx%.

For example, on my lvl 27 bm with 770 Physical Def. it says: "Damage from level 27 enemy attacks will be reduced by 42%". If you hover your mouse over the Elemental Res. stats, you will see similar information.

Take my bm for example. If a mob's physical damage is 1,000 (damage A), when it lands on me, 42% will be resisted, so I end up taking a damage of 580 (damage

.

Now if I have a defense level of 10, then it means an additional 10% of Damage B, not Damage A will be resisted. In this case, 58, so the final blow I take will be 580 - 58, or 522.

And yes, defense levels do apply to both physical and elemental.

Now take a look at the table below showing what percentage resistance you get at difference defense levels:

1 1.19%
2 2.34%
3 3.47%
4 4.58%
5 5.66%
6 6.72%
7 7.75%
8 8.76%
9 9.75%
10 10.71%
20 19.35%
30 26.5%
40 32.43%
50 37.50%
60 41.86%
70 45.65%
80 48.98%
90 51.92%
100 54.55%
120 59.02%
150 64.29%
200 70.59%
300 78.26%
500 85.71%
1000 92.31%

As you can see, the higher your defense level, the less benefit you receive with each additional increase. At defense level 20, you start receiving a diminishing return.

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2011

nimh88 wrote: »

If you open up your Character Info screen, and hover your mouse over to where it says Physical Def. you will see something like: Physical Resistance Damage from level xx enemy attacks will be reduced by xx%.

For example, on my lvl 27 bm with 770 Physical Def. it says: "Damage from level 27 enemy attacks will be reduced by 42%". If you hover your mouse over the Elemental Res. stats, you will see similar information.

Take my bm for example. If a mob's physical damage is 1,000 (damage A), when it lands on me, 42% will be resisted, so I end up taking a damage of 580 (damage .

Now if I have a defense level of 10, then it means an additional 10% of Damage B, not Damage A will be resisted. In this case, 58, so the final blow I take will be 580 - 58, or 522.

And yes, defense levels do apply to both physical and elemental.

Now take a look at the table below showing what percentage resistance you get at difference defense levels:

1 1.19%
2 2.34%
3 3.47%
4 4.58%
5 5.66%
6 6.72%
7 7.75%
8 8.76%
9 9.75%
10 10.71%
20 19.35%
30 26.5%
40 32.43%
50 37.50%
60 41.86%
70 45.65%
80 48.98%
90 51.92%
100 54.55%
120 59.02%
150 64.29%
200 70.59%
300 78.26%
500 85.71%
1000 92.31%

As you can see, the higher your defense level, the less benefit you receive with each additional increase. At defense level 20, you start receiving a diminishing return.

ok ive been looking everywhere for accurate defense lvl info and i REALLY REALLY WANT to believe you here BUT!!!

nimh88 wrote: »

Now if I have a defense level of 10, then it means an additional 10% of Damage B, not Damage A will be resisted. In this case, 58, so the final blow I take will be 580 - 58, or 522.

is COMPLETELY CONTRADICTING

nimh88 wrote: »

Now take a look at the table below showing what percentage resistance you get at difference defense levels:

1 1.19%
2 2.34%
3 3.47%
4 4.58%
5 5.66%
6 6.72%
7 7.75%
8 8.76%
9 9.75%
10 10.71%
20 19.35%
30 26.5%
40 32.43%
50 37.50%
60 41.86%
70 45.65%
80 48.98%
90 51.92%
100 54.55%
120 59.02%
150 64.29%
200 70.59%
300 78.26%
500 85.71%
1000 92.31%

the first part i quoted is saying that with a defense lvl of 100 would reduce damage B by 100% resulting in 580-580 = NO DAMAGE TAKEN! (and i know thats not true)

now in the second part i quoted its saying a defense lvl of 100 would reduce damage by 54.55%. this does make a little more sense. but then what exactly is this formula? because from what im told X defense lvl ADDS X% onto your resistances and does not SUBTRACT X% from damage taken. (that makes the most sense to me, but i want to know for sure) but if that were true the wouldnt having a defense lvl of 100 exactly double your resistances and you would take exactly half the damage? but according to you its 54.55% ....not 50%. SO IM CONFUSED!!!!!!!! someone please help me

violetvalor · April 2011

Ive just realized that these formulas fit exactly in all the experimental datas displayed:

if (atk lv > def lv) then:

damage taken = { damage delivered * ( 1 + ({ atk lv } - { def lv }) / 100 ) }

if (atk lv < def lv) then:

damage taken = { damage delivered / ( 1 + (1,2 * ({ def lv } - { atk lv }) / 100 ) ) }

Where {} means enter part or truncate the number; for example { 367,9 } = 367

Source Post:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9621612&postcount=105

Source Thread:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=698392

ACLucius - Archosaur · April 2011

I personally have serious trouble believing each level is indeed an equal percentage. From what I can tell about the R9 gear, Seekers will probably be able to end up with over 100 defense levels if they are anywhere near what a Blademaster's gear offers.

This would be a Seeker build based on another threads build for a sage Blademaster. With Adrenal Numbness and the Blademaster R9 armor (which of course a Seeker can't wear), it would mean that essentially, mobs would deal no damage at all to this person, and that if anything the person would gain HP for each hit. I very much doubt that would ever be the case, so my best guess is that it decreases as the level gets higher or that it is not a total of 111% decrease, but a 1% decrease 111 times over.

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2011

ACLucius - Archosaur wrote: »

I personally have serious trouble believing each level is indeed an equal percentage. From what I can tell about the R9 gear, Seekers will probably be able to end up with over 100 defense levels if they are anywhere near what a Blademaster's gear offers.

This would be a Seeker build based on another threads build for a sage Blademaster. With Adrenal Numbness and the Blademaster R9 armor (which of course a Seeker can't wear), it would mean that essentially, mobs would deal no damage at all to this person, and that if anything the person would gain HP for each hit. I very much doubt that would ever be the case, so my best guess is that it decreases as the level gets higher or that it is not a total of 111% decrease, but a 1% decrease 111 times over.

well no **** sherlock we already knew how def lvl DOESNT work. im trying to figure out how it DOES work. i would assume that instead of reducing damage taken by the % of your def lvl it would actually increase your resistances by the % of your def lvl. so if that were true a def lvl of 100 would double your resistances causeing you to take half the damage. but appearently it reduces damage by 54.55% i just dont get where that number comes from

ACLucius - Archosaur · April 2011

RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »

well no **** sherlock we already knew how def lvl DOESNT work. im trying to figure out how it DOES work. i would assume that instead of reducing damage taken by the % of your def lvl it would actually increase your resistances by the % of your def lvl. so if that were true a def lvl of 100 would double your resistances causeing you to take half the damage. but appearently it reduces damage by 54.55% i just dont get where that number comes from

Well, I wasn't directing my post towards you, but since you apparently think I did...

If it worked by increasing your resistances, it wouldn't affect the attack levels. Attack levels affect the damage dealt after all other variables have been put in (total damage and total resistance), meaning they go straight through resistances. Defense levels decrease the damage dealt to you, so I do not think they are based on your own resistance at all. They decrease the damage after the resistances have already taken effect. So, chances are that list of percentages is incorrect, since I doubt the premise behind them is correct.

P.S.: Next time, it might be best to leave out things which might sound...insulting. It only diminishes the quality of a post.

nimh88 · April 2011

Why is it contradicting??

Where did I say with 100 def. level, your damage will be reduced by 100%? It's 54.55% if the attacker has 0 atk lvl.

With 100 def. level, your final damage taken would be 580*(1-54.55%), or 264.

If you are wondering how the tabled numbers are derived, here's the forumula:

Damage Reduced = (100%-1/(1+（D-A）*0.012)

D= Def. lvl
A= Attack lvl

Now plug in D= 100, and A=0, you will get 54.55%... and any other combination you want.

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2011

nimh88 wrote: »

Why is it contradicting??

Where did I say with 100 def. level, your damage will be reduced by 100%?

right here

nimh88 wrote: »

Now if I have a defense level of 10, then it means an additional 10% of Damage B, not Damage A will be resisted. In this case, 58, so the final blow I take will be 580 - 58, or 522.

according to this 10 def lvl = 10% soooooooo...... then 1563 def lvl = 1563% and 100 def lvl = 100% = not 54.55%

now im gunna be honest here, its probly because i dont have a clue what (100%-1/(1+（D-A）*0.012) means....im sure i could figure it out when i was in highschool....but its been a long time since then and i threw out my text book the last day of school.

Attack level and defence level

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