A question.
BarbHammer - Heavens Tear
Posts: 215 Arc User
Not sure if this is the right place, if not GMs, mods, feel free to move it.
I'm a pure Tank barb. So which path is best Demon or Sage? I was told Demon, but Sage seems like a more Tanking Barb path to go.
I'm a pure Tank barb. So which path is best Demon or Sage? I was told Demon, but Sage seems like a more Tanking Barb path to go.
I do as the Romans do, I wash my hands of thee.
Post edited by BarbHammer - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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Sage sage sage and sage. Plus sage.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
I'LL GO:
Demon demon demon and demon. Plus demon b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
-EDIT-GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »I'LL GO:
Demon demon demon and demon. Plus demon b:victory
D'oh! My clever witty comment fails! I must edit away my shame and admit defeat![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
neither neither neither and neither Plus neither?
ok, on a serious side, I see more demon barbs than sage ones, if that's any indicationI'm a guy, not a woman, that is all
"When you're on Team Bring it, every morning your feet hit the floor, the good lord says "good morning" and the devil says 'Oh **** they're up' " - Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson
Are you on Team Bring it?0 -
http://www.ecatomb.net/skillwb.php
compare skills...
it would prolly be sage just by judging your tiger form skill.
40% hp vs full dmg
Sage skills usually reduce chi usage or increase chi gain ..+ for tanking i would think.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MissAnthrope - Sanctuary wrote: »http://www.ecatomb.net/skillwb.php
compare skills...
it would prolly be sage just by judging your tiger form skill.
40% hp vs full dmg
Sage skills usually reduce chi usage or increase chi gain ..+ for tanking i would think.
I did that, and I noticed you did loose 50% weapon attack on the true form on sage, but you get it back with the Strength of the Titans. So Sage would be the best tanking path.
Thank you for all the repliesI do as the Romans do, I wash my hands of thee.0 -
BarbHammer - Heavens Tear wrote: »I did that, and I noticed you did loose 50% weapon attack on the true form on sage, but you get it back with the Strength of the Titans. So Sage would be the best tanking path.
Thank you for all the replies
yea and i also noticed on your melee mastery that sage gives 100% dmg.
so its not all a loss with dmg since demon will get full dmg but no extra dmg from melee masterys[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MissAnthrope - Sanctuary wrote: »yea and i also noticed on your melee mastery that sage gives 100% dmg.
so its not all a loss with dmg since demon will get full dmg but no extra dmg from melee masterys
Not really looking to become a DD. I don't PvP so that takes away alot of skills I don't have to lvl. I never leave tiger form except to buff. The money I have saved from not lvling my human skills buys me anything I wantI do as the Romans do, I wash my hands of thee.0 -
BarbHammer - Heavens Tear wrote: »Not really looking to become a DD. I don't PvP so that takes away alot of skills I don't have to lvl. I never leave tiger form except to buff. The money I have saved from not lvling my human skills buys me anything I want
shapeshifting intensity gives more pdef too in sage.. another thing to look at. And Devour with chi gain and loss. Also beastal rage increase 20 seconds.. more chi gain.. and posion fage goes to 30 mins. Seems pretty good for tankin i think.. but i'm no high level barb.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MissAnthrope - Sanctuary wrote: »shapeshifting intensity gives more pdef too in sage.. another thing to look at. And Devour with chi gain and loss. Also beastal rage increase 20 seconds.. more chi gain.. and posion fage goes to 30 mins. Seems pretty good for tankin i think.. but i'm no high level barb.
The barbs that are telling me to go to Demon have maybe 3-5k hp more than me. I have 10.8HP at this lvl so was just trying to get a better respective point of view from all of PWI playersI do as the Romans do, I wash my hands of thee.0 -
Most likely Sage barbs are PVE and Demon are PVP. Thats just a guess but I don't know any demon barbs at all. I know quite a few barbs high lvl.
For my archer I looked at skills that I use the most and saw what was most beneficial for me, NOT what other people thought was fail or pro. Also look at your passive skills, as an indicator.
Either way you go, dont' let people tell u that you are fail because you chose a certain way. I chose sage archer and haven't regretted it, and the only person I've come across INGAME to tell me I was fail was a demon archer.
Either way, to each his own. Pick what you think will suit you best.0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »Most likely Sage barbs are PVE and Demon are PVP. Thats just a guess but I don't know any demon barbs at all. I know quite a few barbs high lvl.
For my archer I looked at skills that I use the most and saw what was most beneficial for me, NOT what other people thought was fail or pro. Also look at your passive skills, as an indicator.
Either way you go, dont' let people tell u that you are fail because you chose a certain way. I chose sage archer and haven't regretted it, and the only person I've come across INGAME to tell me I was fail was a demon archer.
Either way, to each his own. Pick what you think will suit you best.
I have and I choose Sage from lvl 1. I was just wondering why a Pure tank would go Demon. When your lvl 77 and you have 10.8k HP and a lvl 89-93 has maybe 12k fully buffed It's pretty pathetic to play a Tank to be a DDI do as the Romans do, I wash my hands of thee.0 -
MissAnthrope - Sanctuary wrote: »yea and i also noticed on your melee mastery that sage gives 100% dmg.
so its not all a loss with dmg since demon will get full dmg but no extra dmg from melee masterys
b:puzzled NO EXTRA DAMGE FOR DEMON ?
what about going FROM 60% weapon dmg (level 10) TO 75% weapon dmg and 2%crit ?
isnt this extra dmg from skill ? b:shocked
talking of the bonus damage:
DEMON
SAGE
AXE N HAMMER MASTERY:
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 75%, critical hit rate increase of 2%
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 100%
STRENGHT OF THE TITANS:
extra 40% of weapon attack, critical hit rate increase of 5% for 1min
extra 50% of weapon attack
POISON FANG:
extra 50% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 15 minutes
extra 40% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 30 minutes
TRUE FORM:
NO weapon damage reduction
50% less weapon damage
so:
HUMAN FORM %weapon dmg bonus in the end:
DEMON --> 75 + 40 + 50 = +165% + 7%crit
SAGE --> 100 + 50 + 40 = +190%
TIGER FORM %weapon dmg bonus in the end:
DEMON --> 75 + 40 + 50 = +165% + 9%crit
SAGE --> 100 + 50 + 40 - 50 = +140%
for overall situation, since in HUMAN FORM the sage looses his PHYSICAL AND HEALTH advantages, i find a WIN WIN situation for demon, both human and tiger...
and also demon is ten times more versatile than a pure meatshield b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »b:puzzled NO EXTRA DAMGE FOR DEMON ?
what about going FROM 60% weapon dmg (level 10) TO 75% weapon dmg and 2%crit ?
isnt this extra dmg from skill ? b:shocked
talking of the bonus damage:
DEMON
SAGE
AXE N HAMMER MASTERY:
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 75%, critical hit rate increase of 2%
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 100%
STRENGHT OF THE TITANS:
extra 40% of weapon attack, critical hit rate increase of 5% for 1min
extra 50% of weapon attack
POISON FANG:
extra 50% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 15 minutes
extra 40% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 30 minutes
TRUE FORM:
NO weapon damage reduction
50% less weapon damage
so:
HUMAN FORM %weapon dmg bonus in the end:
DEMON --> 75 + 40 + 50 = +165% + 7%crit
SAGE --> 100 + 50 + 40 = +190%
TIGER FORM %weapon dmg bonus in the end:
DEMON --> 75 + 40 + 50 = +165% + 9%crit
SAGE --> 100 + 50 + 40 - 50 = +140%
for overall situation, since in HUMAN FORM the sage looses his PHYSICAL AND HEALTH advantages, i find a WIN WIN situation for demon, both human and tiger...
and also demon is ten times more versatile than a pure meatshield b:victory
didnt say that on the website.. or i missed it. like i said.. i'm not a high level barb....... i just know what they do from being around high level barbs.
*edit: i looked at the website.. it only said 2% crit. So yea it didnt say anything about increase in %. must not be a good site to look at?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »b:puzzled NO EXTRA DAMGE FOR DEMON ?
what about going FROM 60% weapon dmg (level 10) TO 75% weapon dmg and 2%crit ?
isnt this extra dmg from skill ? b:shocked
talking of the bonus damage:
DEMON
SAGE
AXE N HAMMER MASTERY:
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 75%, critical hit rate increase of 2%
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 100%
STRENGHT OF THE TITANS:
extra 40% of weapon attack, critical hit rate increase of 5% for 1min
extra 50% of weapon attack
POISON FANG:
extra 50% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 15 minutes
extra 40% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 30 minutes
TRUE FORM:
NO weapon damage reduction
50% less weapon damage
so:
HUMAN FORM %weapon dmg bonus in the end:
DEMON --> 75 + 40 + 50 = +165% + 7%crit
SAGE --> 100 + 50 + 40 = +190%
TIGER FORM %weapon dmg bonus in the end:
DEMON --> 75 + 40 + 50 = +165% + 9%crit
SAGE --> 100 + 50 + 40 - 50 = +140%
for overall situation, since in HUMAN FORM the sage looses his PHYSICAL AND HEALTH advantages, i find a WIN WIN situation for demon, both human and tiger...
and also demon is ten times more versatile than a pure meatshield b:victory
Honestly that can't be completely accurate, you are not using all the skills just a select few. And since I'm a tanking barb, the extra attack doesn't have any effect for me, cause I will be tanking not DDingI do as the Romans do, I wash my hands of thee.0 -
BarbHammer - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have and I choose Sage from lvl 1. I was just wondering why a Pure tank would go Demon. When your lvl 77 and you have 10.8k HP and a lvl 89-93 has maybe 12k fully buffed It's pretty pathetic to play a Tank to be a DD
one thing i talking about the CULTIVATION
another is talking about different BUILDS
from 77 to 89 theres no way ull gain JUST 1.2k HP straight
since buffs arent too different (just 10% more HP for sage in tiger)
then the people u saw, was not following the usual way to stat the barb, they might have gone PURE STR, or HYBRID
remember the "just enuf STR n DEX, rest all VIT" role ?
they r not appling that...so is easy to guess that they wouldnt have MASSIVE HP even if they were going sage
@MissAnthrope: all the info came from ecatomb.net[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
then i just suck at finding things lol[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »one thing i talking about the CULTIVATION
another is talking about different BUILDS
from 77 to 89 theres no way ull gain JUST 1.2k HP straight
since buffs arent too different (just 10% more HP for sage in tiger)
then the people u saw, was not following the usual way to stat the barb, they might have gone PURE STR, or HYBRID
remember the "just enuf STR n DEX, rest all VIT" role ?
they r not appling that...so is easy to guess that they wouldnt have MASSIVE HP even if they were going sage
@MissAnthrope: all the info came from ecatomb.net
My question then, if you are just going to build a hybrid, why not make a BM, makes more sense really.I do as the Romans do, I wash my hands of thee.0 -
MissAnthrope - Sanctuary wrote: »*edit: i looked at the website.. it only said 2% crit. So yea it didnt say anything about increase in %. must not be a good site to look at?
dont look just for the purple add on description
if u read the FULL DESCRIPTION ull notice it changes:
(Level 10) Axe and Hammer Mastery
Passive Skill
Requisite Cultivation: Aware of Harmony
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 60%.
and
(DEMON) ○Axe and Hammer Mastery
Passive Skill
Requisite Cultivation: Aware of the Void
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 75% and increases critical hit rate.
Demon version gives a critical hit rate increase of 2%.
b:cute
@hammer: my comparison was referred to % WEAPON DAMAGE BONUS only
sages are TANK, no question...but they just have 10% more HP than a demon with same stats and equip, and 40% more PDEF (btw after 80% dmg reduction is hard to call it worth)...
but more damage is always welcome, even by tanks
ive seen (on forum) quite a bit of DEMON barbs who after getting 90+ restat just to tries if they have more fun...
-they can still tank better than normal BMs --> barb aggro skills
-they still have decent HP, better than normal BMs --> barb passive, skills and buff
-they can deal good ammount of damage, nice combos --> ask Wolfgore speed solo TTs b:shocked
-they can OWN PVP with critical combos loops
id never call em FAIL BARB just cuz they dont follow the mass b:bye
this is a game afterall[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »b:puzzled NO EXTRA DAMGE FOR DEMON ?
what about going FROM 60% weapon dmg (level 10) TO 75% weapon dmg and 2%crit ?
isnt this extra dmg from skill ? b:shocked
Be shocked all ya want lol, you kind of just proved a point.
talking of the bonus damage:
DEMON
SAGE
AXE N HAMMER MASTERY:
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 75%, critical hit rate increase of 2%
Increases axe and hammer weapon damage by 100%
Ok so you have like 2% critical hit rate and add another 2%. Not much. Which means you have a slight more chance to crit, I'd rather have the constant and consistant EXTRA weapon damage that is guaranteed. IMO another reason to go sage.
STRENGHT OF THE TITANS:
extra 40% of weapon attack, critical hit rate increase of 5% for 1min
extra 50% of weapon attack
Ok again, 1 minute crit increase of 5% and you sacrifice 10% weapon attack. Again, better to take the SURE thing rather than a maybe. And the extra crit is just for 1 minute. Not much time at all. Unless you plan to rebuff every one minute.. not worth it.
POISON FANG:
extra 50% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 15 minutes
extra 40% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 30 minutes
This one, Demon wins. Every 15 minutes would be worth rebuffing for 10% more.
TRUE FORM:
NO weapon damage reduction
50% less weapon damage
I'm not totally sure what this means, but I'm guessing weapon damage means damage your weapon takes? If so, sage wins... AGAIN!
so:
HUMAN FORM %weapon dmg bonus in the end:
DEMON --> 75 + 40 + 50 = +165% + 7%crit
SAGE --> 100 + 50 + 40 = +190%
TIGER FORM %weapon dmg bonus in the end:
DEMON --> 75 + 40 + 50 = +165% + 9%crit
SAGE --> 100 + 50 + 40 - 50 = +140%
These figures can not be totally accurate as the crit hit etc.. is a limited time. You nor no other barb is going to say in the middle of a boss "hey can you tank while I up my crit skill" every 1 minute? Therefore the damage equations really aren't accurate.
for overall situation, since in HUMAN FORM the sage looses his PHYSICAL AND HEALTH advantages, i find a WIN WIN situation for demon, both human and tiger...
and also demon is ten times more versatile than a pure meatshield
You kind of just proved in your own post all the reasons sage would be better. Isn't a meatshield what barbs are supposed to be? If you wanna be a partial tank/DD isn't that what BM's are? I mean be happy with whatever you choose, not for me to tell you how to play your character. But from the statistics you gave, overall even damage wise SAGE is better.
b:victory
10 characters0 -
do like i did....do both b:chuckle
well... u can also check http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/
most likely demons by skills r pvpers and dd's and sages pve'ers and tanks...BUT!! also sages can be really bad pvpers w incredibely high hp (sage devour + 3 sparks + extreme poison + lvl 10 armageddon - combo is my favorit b:victory )
and also demon barbs can be extremely good tanks w high ref's and good gems in gears....dont forget that str gives also phys def and dex gives evasion (every1 keep telling me theres no need for evasion until they keep missing all their hits on me!) and demons can hold agro way better than sages since they have better DPS!!every1 knows how archers keep stealing agro always! b:chuckle
check out that calculator and skills add ons from etacomb...or do like i did make both! b:chuckle0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »TRUE FORM:
NO weapon damage reduction
50% less weapon damage
I'm not totally sure what this means, but I'm guessing weapon damage means damage your weapon takes? If so, sage wins... AGAIN!
No. Demon wins that one hands down. Weapon damage reduction means that you're dealing X% less damage which is part of why tigers have to spam ream/devour to keep aggro. Demon True Form allows them to deal their full damage while being the cute li'l kitties we know them as.
If you plan on being a pure tank. Sage no questions asked. It's when you'd want to do more than just be really REALLY hard for stuff to kill that Demon becomes a factor.0 -
No. Demon wins that one hands down. Weapon damage reduction means that you're dealing X% less damage which is part of why tigers have to spam ream/devour to keep aggro. Demon True Form allows them to deal their full damage while being the cute li'l kitties we know them as.
If you plan on being a pure tank. Sage no questions asked. It's when you'd want to do more than just be really REALLY hard for stuff to kill that Demon becomes a factor.
Then why would you bother to purchase and learn the skill? Just sayin...So it is no factor either way for this skill.0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »Then why would you bother to purchase and learn the skill? Just sayin...So it is no factor either way for this skill.
since is the form u always use to TANK
sage more HP, demon full dmg
then, to answer ur previous post on my quote:
all the comparison were made JUST with skills (buff/passive) that affect WEAPON DAMAGE INCREASE
demon axe and hammer mastery gives an increase of 15% of weapon damage
(from 60% to 75% is still an increase)
demon poison fang is for TIGER FORM ONLY and is castable even during boss
strenght of the titan is HUMAN FORM ONLY, for long bosses once it ends, u dont bother to rebuff usually (u can do it anyway if u find the way)
demon poison fang + demon strenght of the titans = sage poison fang + sage strenght of the titans
(every 15 minutes)
then, if u dont know that tiger form reduces damage, u dont even have to talk, really b:shutup
demon are still 3/4 meatshield, then can TANK and still:
KEEP AGGRO BETTER
HAVE BETTER SPIKE DAMAGE[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
For a pure tank, Sage wins.
For a tank with DD capability/pvp ability, Demon wins.
Either way you go, both forms have some awesome skill sets and some awesome adds.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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