Of Apples and Oracles
Aenarion - Harshlands
Posts: 3 Arc User
TLDR: there isn't one, stop being lazy and read.
The real reason that the vast majority of players i talk to don't like oracles isn't because the player may be less experienced and not know their class well, or because they may not have a good grip on the duties of their class in various dungeon runs. It's a much simpler and easy to understand concept, that even the oracle users were aware of before they decide to buy them.
Leveling through the use of oracles is undoubtedly a faster method that can get you to a high level in a fraction of the time that it would take a player using conventional leveling methods. This fact alone will spur jealousy in almost any non-oracling player. Oracle players will justify this leveling method as an option put forth by PWE, and that if they want to spend real life currency on the game, they can.
The whole concept of being able to spend real life money to progress faster in a game is a fundamental case of an un-fair advantage for oracle players.
Because of it requiring the use of real life cash, oracle leveling depends on the player having a ready source of disposable income that is not gained in any way by playing the game. This in itself means that those who are unemployed or with low income jobs that are self reliant, kids coming from un-wealthy families, or those who otherwise have no ability to spend money on a game are at a disadvantage from the moment they click "create character".
Because oracling uses a power source that is not gained through progression in the game, being a better player, or having the will power or skill to do more difficult tasks, it is an advantage given to those of a higher standing in a completely different world.
PWI being an MMO is itself a world separate from reality, with its own set of rules, cause and effect, gain and loss, and in the case of pvp servers, struggle for dominance.
To be able to use currency from another world to give yourself an advantage over other players in leveling speed is no different than if a god came from the sky and said to the world "Everyone with Blue eyes, blonde hair, and white skin will hence forth run faster, jump higher, and live longer".
The brown haired, green eyed, people of the world did not have a choice in their genetic makeup, just as the vast majority of people in this world cant just "decide to have disposable income". But in both cases, those privileged with things outside the control of most (good fortune, genetics, connections) have a distinct advantage over those who were not blessed with these things.
You can rationalize it as using your assets that you were given, or taking advantage of a blessing you have, to spend real money on oracles.
But the fact of the matter is oracles don't have to be there, and are purely a way for PWE to make more money. Without things like oracles or scarlet fruit every player would level at a speed set by their own skill, will power, dedication, and other things gained through success in the game itself, and not from a players financial standing in an unrelated world.
And besides, for you Oracle levelers out there, under the facade of "using your best options available" you know as well as i do that your best option is a biased and unequal serpents apple most of you just refuse to admit it.
I wont be back to argue my point, feed trolls, or have a flame war, but everyone is free to do as the mods please.
The real reason that the vast majority of players i talk to don't like oracles isn't because the player may be less experienced and not know their class well, or because they may not have a good grip on the duties of their class in various dungeon runs. It's a much simpler and easy to understand concept, that even the oracle users were aware of before they decide to buy them.
Leveling through the use of oracles is undoubtedly a faster method that can get you to a high level in a fraction of the time that it would take a player using conventional leveling methods. This fact alone will spur jealousy in almost any non-oracling player. Oracle players will justify this leveling method as an option put forth by PWE, and that if they want to spend real life currency on the game, they can.
The whole concept of being able to spend real life money to progress faster in a game is a fundamental case of an un-fair advantage for oracle players.
Because of it requiring the use of real life cash, oracle leveling depends on the player having a ready source of disposable income that is not gained in any way by playing the game. This in itself means that those who are unemployed or with low income jobs that are self reliant, kids coming from un-wealthy families, or those who otherwise have no ability to spend money on a game are at a disadvantage from the moment they click "create character".
Because oracling uses a power source that is not gained through progression in the game, being a better player, or having the will power or skill to do more difficult tasks, it is an advantage given to those of a higher standing in a completely different world.
PWI being an MMO is itself a world separate from reality, with its own set of rules, cause and effect, gain and loss, and in the case of pvp servers, struggle for dominance.
To be able to use currency from another world to give yourself an advantage over other players in leveling speed is no different than if a god came from the sky and said to the world "Everyone with Blue eyes, blonde hair, and white skin will hence forth run faster, jump higher, and live longer".
The brown haired, green eyed, people of the world did not have a choice in their genetic makeup, just as the vast majority of people in this world cant just "decide to have disposable income". But in both cases, those privileged with things outside the control of most (good fortune, genetics, connections) have a distinct advantage over those who were not blessed with these things.
You can rationalize it as using your assets that you were given, or taking advantage of a blessing you have, to spend real money on oracles.
But the fact of the matter is oracles don't have to be there, and are purely a way for PWE to make more money. Without things like oracles or scarlet fruit every player would level at a speed set by their own skill, will power, dedication, and other things gained through success in the game itself, and not from a players financial standing in an unrelated world.
And besides, for you Oracle levelers out there, under the facade of "using your best options available" you know as well as i do that your best option is a biased and unequal serpents apple most of you just refuse to admit it.
I wont be back to argue my point, feed trolls, or have a flame war, but everyone is free to do as the mods please.
Post edited by Aenarion - Harshlands on
0
Comments
-
Aenarion - Harshlands wrote: »Because oracling uses a power source that is not gained through progression in the game, being a better player, or having the will power or skill to do more difficult tasks, it is an advantage given to those of a higher standing in a completely different world.
o darn...me use noob power....does that mean me has unfair advantage as well?
b:shocked
um...in before lock.
this thread just be inviting flames as your last part of post states.
DXdarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
My two cents:
This is pretty much just a political argument, and political arguments go nowhere. One side says that it's their right to make use of their advantages, and that if you have none, it's your own fault. The other side says that not all men are actually created equal, so that attitude is BS.
It's not gonna get solved. I've had this argument a lot of times, in a lot of different contexts, and it never goes anywhere. I personally don't care about Oracles, because nobody cares what I think about it, nobody will stop using them just because "it's not fair b:cry". I'm just going to play the game the way I play it, and have fun doing the things I do.
I'm having fun. I don't care if someone else is in competition with the rest of the member base, or has fun with oracles, or what have you. It's their choice how they play their game, and my choice how I play mine. b:surrender0 -
those who are unemployed or with low income jobs that are self reliant, kids coming from un-wealthy families, or those who otherwise have no ability to spend money [...] are at a disadvantage
Welcome to planet "Earth". Enjoy your stay. b:bye
(no, I dont play one of the new classes and level it through Oracles)0 -
Somebody kicking the dead horse again? You know, I realise the horse is dead, but it's being kicked so much I still sort of feel sorry for it.
All of this will solve nothing. You invite trolls and flamers to tear your opinion apart and you invite those who would be more political about arguing to backhandedly insult you while telling you how much you are wrong.
This is an eternal clash of opinions - opinions that have good and bad points on both sides. If your playing style makes you an oracle noob, then so be it you are on oracle noob. Those who frown upon such use of oracles will not play with you, those who do not care will. Either way you will be able to continue to play the game.
One must also assume if somebody spends assloads on a game to level up to 90 in a day, that they are more than willing to take the consequences of this, especially when the opinion on oracle noobs is so loud.
This pointless argument - no matter how nicely and politically you put it - will get nobody anywhere. You will not rebuke the oracle noobs, and you will not win anybody over to the side of "Play the game the way it was made to played".
Because believe it or not, real life is the same way. Real life was not made to be easy, but you will be amazed how many children out there will grow up knowing nothing of how cruel real life really is. They'll struggle for it one day. Let us hope oracle noobs are the same.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Did you ever experience people before oracles were this prominent? A good percent still didn't know their elbow from their ****, and it isn't even hard to figure out how to play a character. A good friend of mine, who is 75, purely leveled by grinding and CS/WQ over a span of months, never even doing a single BH until I showed her the other day. Read the forums and look at the complaints about people who don't know how to play their class. Bet you'll find 'em prominent this entire year.Aenarion - Harshlands wrote: »TLDR: there isn't one, stop being lazy and read.
The real reason that the vast majority of players i talk to don't like oracles isn't because the player may be less experienced and not know their class well, or because they may not have a good grip on the duties of their class in various dungeon runs. It's a much simpler and easy to understand concept, that even the oracle users were aware of before they decide to buy them.
Leveling through the use of oracles is undoubtedly a faster method that can get you to a high level in a fraction of the time that it would take a player using conventional leveling methods. This fact alone will spur jealousy in almost any non-oracling player. Oracle players will justify this leveling method as an option put forth by PWE, and that if they want to spend real life currency on the game, they can.
The whole concept of being able to spend real life money to progress faster in a game is a fundamental case of an un-fair advantage for oracle players.
Because of it requiring the use of real life cash, oracle leveling depends on the player having a ready source of disposable income that is not gained in any way by playing the game. This in itself means that those who are unemployed or with low income jobs that are self reliant, kids coming from un-wealthy families, or those who otherwise have no ability to spend money on a game are at a disadvantage from the moment they click "create character".
Because oracling uses a power source that is not gained through progression in the game, being a better player, or having the will power or skill to do more difficult tasks, it is an advantage given to those of a higher standing in a completely different world.
PWI being an MMO is itself a world separate from reality, with its own set of rules, cause and effect, gain and loss, and in the case of pvp servers, struggle for dominance.
To be able to use currency from another world to give yourself an advantage over other players in leveling speed is no different than if a god came from the sky and said to the world "Everyone with Blue eyes, blonde hair, and white skin will hence forth run faster, jump higher, and live longer".
The brown haired, green eyed, people of the world did not have a choice in their genetic makeup, just as the vast majority of people in this world cant just "decide to have disposable income". But in both cases, those privileged with things outside the control of most (good fortune, genetics, connections) have a distinct advantage over those who were not blessed with these things.
You can rationalize it as using your assets that you were given, or taking advantage of a blessing you have, to spend real money on oracles.
But the fact of the matter is oracles don't have to be there, and are purely a way for PWE to make more money. Without things like oracles or scarlet fruit every player would level at a speed set by their own skill, will power, dedication, and other things gained through success in the game itself, and not from a players financial standing in an unrelated world.
And besides, for you Oracle levelers out there, under the facade of "using your best options available" you know as well as i do that your best option is a biased and unequal serpents apple most of you just refuse to admit it.
I wont be back to argue my point, feed trolls, or have a flame war, but everyone is free to do as the mods please.
Certainly, someone who oracles to, say, 90+, who never had any other character, will likely not know about squad-related stuff like BH or FF, and they'll suffer. Their learning curve is exactly the same as someone who purely did grinding or simply is dumb and/or not affluent with games and doesn't pick up on things easily. This outrage explicitly toward oracles is incredibly stupid and is the target du jour of malcontents who only seem to find prominence in the game and on the forums by complaining and little else.0 -
Aenarion - Harshlands wrote: »TLDR: there isn't one, stop being lazy and read.
tl;dr means too long; didn't read
tl;dr b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TL;DR -- ಥ_ಥ MOAR, plx.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
TL;DRb:byeinb4 Alexeno
ಠೈಠ Troll-sauce-face made by Konariraiden
When you see it.. Just don't post again.0 -
i used oracles before and i have this to say. For me oracles were a method to catch up with my friends in pwi who have much more time on their hands to play this game and level. Me, on the other hand, I have a job and go to school. So I used oracles to quicly level because i dont have the luxury of time on my hands like the rest. So in my opinion in the end its all balanced. Unless youre a rich kid where your parents give you loads of money for no reason... then.. yeah..[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
-
i'm sure oracle whores who have played other classes will quickly learn how to play their new class, and they might even be doing us a service by leveling tideborn characters high and passing down their experience regarding skills and stat builds. least of all, they pay for the game lol
the game has come a long way from being a grind fest, however. you now have multiple dailies, and there is rebirth as well. so if you can't oracle, you're not that worse off. in the end, if you came into this game to be competitive, especially on a PvE server, you're going to be very disappointed. it is an mmo after all. someone will always spend more money, have less of a life, or get luckier. you have to kind of approach the game with a more laid back attitude in order to not let it **** you off, otherwise there are more appropriate games for you, namely RTS's and such.
don't get me wrong though...i still think straight oracling and skipping all the "boring parts" in between is a bad idea...but so regarding oracles in the cash shop, i just think it's funnyElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »i'm sure oracle whores who have played other classes will quickly learn how to play their new class, and they might even be doing us a service by leveling tideborn characters high and passing down their experience regarding skills and stat builds. least of all, they pay for the game lol
the game has come a long way from being a grind fest, however. you now have multiple dailies, and there is rebirth as well. so if you can't oracle, you're not that worse off. in the end, if you came into this game to be competitive, especially on a PvE server, you're going to be very disappointed. it is an mmo after all. someone will always spend more money, have less of a life, or get luckier. you have to kind of approach the game with a more laid back attitude in order to not let it **** you off, otherwise there are more appropriate games for you, namely RTS's and such.
don't get me wrong though...i still think straight oracling and skipping all the "boring parts" in between is a bad idea...but so regarding oracles in the cash shop, i just think it's funny
ur right bout that RTS part, I play StarCraft competitively[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Am wondering where this thread will be moved to :-DRank 8 Wizard: 1% farm b:shutup0
-
Ho hum.
How can so many people be so jealous of those who choose to spend money to get something you can get for free?
Sheesh.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »Ho hum.
How can so many people be so jealous of those who choose to spend money to get something you can get for free?
Sheesh.
Human nature...people want what they cannot have.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Honestly, the way of the -world- is that some people have more than others. There is no such thing as a "level playing field"....never was, never will be. What truly is unfair is for some to jump others simply for the 'sin' of having ready cash that they wish to spend on this game! That's unfair and smacks of insane jealousy. It's just the way life is.
By the same token, how lucky we are that there are F2P games out there of the quality of PWI! At least folks have the opportunity to play even if it takes a bit longer to get where they want to be.0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »Human nature...people want what they cannot have.
Ah...I'd say it's more that people want what OTHERS have without having to work for it. After all, it's the great communist dream.
0 -
Kalaniel - Sanctuary wrote: »Ah...I'd say it's more that people want what OTHERS have without having to work for it. After all, it's the great communist dream.
...until everyone remembered Marx had Unrealistic Expectations.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »...until everyone remembered Marx had Unrealistic Expectations.
ROFLOL! Quoted for truth. b:chuckle0 -
Kalaniel - Sanctuary wrote: »ROFLOL! Quoted for truth. b:chuckle
And don't double post...mmmkay?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Ayup. Totally a mistake. *shrugs* It happens.b:shocked0
-
Kalaniel - Sanctuary wrote: »Ayup. Totally a mistake. *shrugs* It happens.b:shocked
*cracks knuckles* Don't let it happen again.
b:scorn[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Lets go to the other spectrum of this argument.
Who wants to play a game, only to get to the end of it in 2 days?
Honestly I see this as a players loss. There are only 8 characters to play. That means they can spend 1000.00 or more on this game and enjoy it for exactly 16 days. Woohoo (yes thats sarcasm). What would be the point?
I have played this character for 5 months. I have not oracled up. I still enjoy it. I will always enjoy it. Even if it takes me another year to get 10 more levels. Finishing the game leaves nothing left to do.
So go ahead, spend your money leveling up a character to end game. So that PWI has more money to keep making this game free. And while ur a lvl 100 noob who doesn't know how to play their class or fight efficiently in dungeons; I'll be still enjoying this and all other characters I play the old fashioned way.
I enjoy living in a fantasy world where MY real money doesn't mean anything.. at least not to me.0 -
Communism was a great idea. Human nature just fked it up.
and starcraft has been the best game out for like forever. I wish beta would come out for sc2 already.
and pwi has exceeded its quarterly expectations for the last year or so. they obviously know what they are doing. i doubt they will change their marketing strategies.
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=PWRD.O
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=46847298[your signature has been removed, please contact an admin for more information]0 -
I've got 8 characters on Sanctuary alone, ranging from 85, my main, to 6, my brand new Assassin. One of each class, none of which have been oracled. Some of them have been Crazy Stoned, with money from my main, and I've been massively Twinking some of them. Example: My Psychic. I gave him all the low level mats from every single one of my characters, and he made himself really shiny weapons. I also gave him a + 10 Magic Tome that I had lying around in my Main's bank. Don't be mad at a player for using Oracles. It's all part of the game, and with as long as this has been out, they could even be buying them with ingame coins from their main. However... I am upset that PW would just release them in the Cash Shop. And even then, one of the main reason I'm annoyed is because a while back, a GM made an official statement about what would, and what would not be released in the Cash Shop. One was Warsoul, which while not directly released, was in fact put into the Cash Shop in the form of Mysterious Chips in the Anny Packs, which ARE directly needed to obtain Warsoul. The other, was EXP. They stated, in no uncertain terms, that PWI would never release items to instantly gain EXP in the Cash Shop. Yet... Here we are. Another broken promise, another grab for cash. You really shouldn't make promises if you don't know if you can keep them or not.0
-
Aenarion - Harshlands wrote: »Because oracling uses a power source that is not gained through progression in the game, being a better player, or having the will power or skill to do more difficult tasks, it is an advantage given to those of a higher standing in a completely different world.
QFT
But the devs will never listen, they like the money too much, and the majority of us put up with the **** they give us. If a few players leave, if doesn't make a dint in their profits no matter how much those players spend; it's about the masses, and the masses stay.
The GMs might listen, but of course they have very little real power except to ban me for saying they have no power >.>you thilly gooses... feather set is thuper fabulous! -Bowlinbob
Chars:
Qwentomec 94 BM / _Zappy_ 99 Wizzy / xLysander 6x Cleric / MoneyBagz 5x Veno / BaNaNa 3x Barb / _Flappy_ 2x Archer / xKnifey 2x Sin / Spoo_Ney 3x Psy
(cookie for anyone who gets the simpsons reference in those last 2 names)0 -
well there's the argument that...they can choose to release things that make money but it doesn't have to be oracles. you know...just out of principle. i'm sure they can make a ****load of money releasing pre-geared 9x characters with cultivation done up to 89, but i also think a lot of people would not be happy with that.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
No, the only problem I have with it is only if they can not coordinate their characters with the rest of the party. If their lack of experience causes a party wipe, or anything that requires me to save their lame **** when it doesnt need to be saved -- then I take offense.
So what if they use real money to level up their characters? I choose to spend mine on things I take enjoyment in, and they choose to spend it on what they enjoy. Money is money. If they spend it on PWI, then so be it. They would have less money to spend on something else, which makes it completely fair. Being able to make money is a talent as well, and all the jealous people who can't make their own money or choose not to spend on PWI -- well, it's your personal decision. You have no right to be jealous and malicious.0 -
The problem is that many of you seem to be playing an mmo to compare yourselves to others, and not to just go out and enjoy the game. Huh, funny, it works that way in real life too. People without money trying to show off their stuff as the best are going to fail to those who do have it. So stop crying over something you are not willing to fix and enjoy life. ( I say not WILLING to fix because you could go out and get a second job/educate for higher paid career or just find other ways to make some money to spend on this game if it REALLY mattered to you.) b:bye
Oh yes, and if I EVER DO decide to use oracles, I suppose I will miss out on all the skilled experience I get conquering my villa every day. b:cold0 -
The fact is that Oracle n00bs, along with other "power players" who require CS items to function, spend thousands of dollars to get lucky on packs, etc... all have one thing in common. They want to feel like they're better than you, and hence they want you to admire them as a "superior" player.
In a Perfect World (lolpun), there's no fast track to success. Obviously, because PWE needs to make money somehow, they have essentially created a fast track to success. But there's still no fast track to admiration, and in the end I feel sorry for those Oracle n00bs and other CS abusers, because they'll never really get what they want.
In short: I'll party with them, I'll treat them with the basic respect (unless they give me reason not to)... but in my eyes they aren't legitimate players, and there is nothing about them that is admirable.
That's how I deal with the Oracle business. Yeah it was a really, really terrible idea for PWE to add Oracles to the cash shop, but come on - after all the packs, wouldn't you expect them to pull something like this?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »Lets go to the other spectrum of this argument.
Who wants to play a game, only to get to the end of it in 2 days?
Honestly I see this as a players loss. There are only 8 characters to play. That means they can spend 1000.00 or more on this game and enjoy it for exactly 16 days. Woohoo (yes thats sarcasm). What would be the point?
I have played this character for 5 months. I have not oracled up. I still enjoy it. I will always enjoy it. Even if it takes me another year to get 10 more levels. Finishing the game leaves nothing left to do.
So go ahead, spend your money leveling up a character to end game. So that PWI has more money to keep making this game free. And while ur a lvl 100 noob who doesn't know how to play their class or fight efficiently in dungeons; I'll be still enjoying this and all other characters I play the old fashioned way.
I enjoy living in a fantasy world where MY real money doesn't mean anything.. at least not to me.
In red: thank you. This is the point I have been trying to make for ages.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 699 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk