assassins are not tanks
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Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
Posts: 690 Arc User
they are not obviously. i see alot of sins trying to build there sins to wear heavy armor because they cant take how "squishy" they are. im just gonna say DONT do it.b:surrender it seems we already have 2 great tanking classes (3 if u rly want to include a veno+a herc) sins are purely dmg.
the art and the whole being and life of an assassin is to get in, do as much dmg as quickly as possible to a target and get out. that is the definition to being a assassin. there NOT ment to tank and trying to build a sin to tank will only make u a useless sin later down the road cuz u will have pathetic dmg. if a sin rly was ment to tank and use heavy armor then im pretty sure the devs would have made there daggers effected by str, but its not and its effected by dex.
pls guys, stop trying to tank stuff with ur sins and using builds to wear heavy armor. thats not what they are ment to do and it will only result in failure in the endb:surrender do wat an assassin is meant to do and that is go in, cut some throats to do some serious major dmg and then get the hell out of there and move on to the next targetb:bye after all. and if u see a group of peeps or a barb u know u cant kill quickly homing in on u to saver there buddy from certain death then finish off there buddy, use ur stealth/teleport and go on ur marry little way to cut someone elses throat b:pleased
the art and the whole being and life of an assassin is to get in, do as much dmg as quickly as possible to a target and get out. that is the definition to being a assassin. there NOT ment to tank and trying to build a sin to tank will only make u a useless sin later down the road cuz u will have pathetic dmg. if a sin rly was ment to tank and use heavy armor then im pretty sure the devs would have made there daggers effected by str, but its not and its effected by dex.
pls guys, stop trying to tank stuff with ur sins and using builds to wear heavy armor. thats not what they are ment to do and it will only result in failure in the endb:surrender do wat an assassin is meant to do and that is go in, cut some throats to do some serious major dmg and then get the hell out of there and move on to the next targetb:bye after all. and if u see a group of peeps or a barb u know u cant kill quickly homing in on u to saver there buddy from certain death then finish off there buddy, use ur stealth/teleport and go on ur marry little way to cut someone elses throat b:pleased
Post edited by Ballistixz - Heavens Tear on
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Tis true, b:cry Preach it brother!>_< I'm a wizard in disguise... you know like the old cartoon... except with less robots and more fire/ice/rocks....0
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i saw 3 heavy sins today b:surrender0
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Everyone has different builds. I've seen HA clerics that work, I've seen LA BMs, I wouldnt say any build is fail. Its all on the person behind the character.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Chobsi the only thing your good at is making your character look good, otherwise your fail"
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~Chobsi b:cute0 -
The majority of NPCs at least till the 40s do physical damage. The 1/4 build suits such that you can get the 12-level HA at 23, whose AC you won't match until you hit 30 with LA. Why waste the levels with bogus resists that won't increase your survivability, when you can take a good chunk less damage towards 30, decreasing the amount of potions/charm you use; especially when you needn't modify your build to do so?
With that being said, if anyone's actually leveling up as if they were to expect to use HA for the rest of their career, well... enjoy, I'm sure you'll end up on the **** end of an ****-stabbing in my future.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
well if u can wear lower lvl Heavy armor with the 4dex 1 str build and that armor gives u more pdef then ur current lvl light armor then by all means use it. but im just saying dont build ur assassin specifically to wear Heavy armors.0
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Pretty much what Terraa said. Initially I had bought a bow to weapon switch once the mob got close. But if it has a high amount of lag from too many people there, you won't weapon swap in time, and end up taking more damage you would otherwise.
So starting at lvl 24 I started boosting 5 into str. Will do that long enough to wear a full set of 2X HA armor, and then add only 5 dex from then on until I get back to the 4 dex 1 str build. Should be around the upper 4X range.
And for anyone thinking you deal alot less damage, you must not know how damage is calculated. Later on, the difference is a big number. But this early, it really has little over-all effect; more so when you're using skills with as high a bonus as assassin skills have. Mostly doing this since I remember how much a pain the lvl 2X quests were for my LA and arcane alts.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
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Lol wut? Assassin's are the new tanks FO SHURR. WAT CHU TALKING BOUT WILLIS?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »So starting at lvl 24 I started boosting 5 into str. Will do that long enough to wear a full set of 2X HA armor, and then add only 5 dex from then on until I get back to the 4 dex 1 str build. Should be around the upper 4X range.
And for anyone thinking you deal alot less damage, you must not know how damage is calculated. Later on, the difference is a big number. But this early, it really has little over-all effect; more so when you're using skills with as high a bonus as assassin skills have. Mostly doing this since I remember how much a pain the lvl 2X quests were for my LA and arcane alts.
This is pretty much the best explanation to date I've read to portray why it's a good idea to deviate from copypasta "do this build and stick to it" cookie-cutter characters. Every point of dex is adding 2 max damage; woo. The only thing you're losing out on at this point is critical hits, but at the levels we're playing at, critical hits are more like eye candy than any necessity, and more than that you're probably at 3% versus my 6.
Slay on, homie~[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
HA-sin = pvp build
i guess that, coz most player who know some parts of PvP know that LA is stupid as hell as melee, coz u HAVE TO get close range what also means ull get hits, against the mag classes wouldnt even LA safe u, better stealth and silence them since they cant take much hits coz low pdef and less HP.. but sleep+stun and what not u got as adds on most of ur attks will not safe gainst barbs and BMs we got the HP and def to just wait for cd/miss/misstakes ...
so if u see HA sins, dun think they are planing to tank, maybe they just make life easier with HA and get half dmg of what u got, or planing to be blood-red-named and *lol* @ u in duells...
i guess, not light-armor sins will make me go b:shocked in duells, the HA sins will... they hit hard, stun and sleep me, and if they do an misstake or whatever what gives me time to stun+attk them, they 'll not get much dmg at all...
and if any1 starts now with something like "u nooooes this n00b what are he talkin bout, do it full dex for high eva and dmg" to those: im fist/claw BM i dont miss on archers 10lvls above me more than twice in the complete duell and since every1 got min 1misty ring, not even barbs will miss in higher lvls... evasion is useless in duells, and high dmg works only for archer and for those only when they had max range in the start of duell (what is useless gainst me coz tiger leap and will be useless gainst sins coz stealth)
BUT: if ill see any HA sin in ma bounty squad and he tells me he want to tank, ill *lol* him and kick him out of squad ! there are allways fails, but most will not use HA for tank, they will for duells/PvP0 -
*cough*
what you want is to go full arcane robes.
/sarcasm
it'll give you enough magic defense to walk up to magic mobs....
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Milesluminis - Heavens Tear wrote: »BUT: if ill see any HA sin in ma bounty squad and he tells me he want to tank, ill *lol* him and kick him out of squad ! there are allways fails
Don't "lol" at the wrong person, they may just hand it back to you. b:victory Just in case though, I'll have my cleric around.0 -
Milesluminis - Heavens Tear wrote: »HA-sin = pvp build
i guess that, coz most player who know some parts of PvP know that LA is stupid as hell as melee, coz u HAVE TO get close range what also means ull get hits, against the mag classes wouldnt even LA safe u, better stealth and silence them since they cant take much hits coz low pdef and less HP.. but sleep+stun and what not u got as adds on most of ur attks will not safe gainst barbs and BMs we got the HP and def to just wait for cd/miss/misstakes ...
so if u see HA sins, dun think they are planing to tank, maybe they just make life easier with HA and get half dmg of what u got, or planing to be blood-red-named and *lol* @ u in duells...
i guess, not light-armor sins will make me go b:shocked in duells, the HA sins will... they hit hard, stun and sleep me, and if they do an misstake or whatever what gives me time to stun+attk them, they 'll not get much dmg at all...
and if any1 starts now with something like "u nooooes this n00b what are he talkin bout, do it full dex for high eva and dmg" to those: im fist/claw BM i dont miss on archers 10lvls above me more than twice in the complete duell and since every1 got min 1misty ring, not even barbs will miss in higher lvls... evasion is useless in duells, and high dmg works only for archer and for those only when they had max range in the start of duell (what is useless gainst me coz tiger leap and will be useless gainst sins coz stealth)
BUT: if ill see any HA sin in ma bounty squad and he tells me he want to tank, ill *lol* him and kick him out of squad ! there are allways fails, but most will not use HA for tank, they will for duells/PvP
Are you serious? The expansion hasn't yet been out one week, and you're already a professional on how we're going to perform in PvP? Maybe we wear LA because we don't need HA, because the point of our existence is to slay you before you have a chance to react. The LA now exists so casters won't magic us before we're able to re-stealth right after you're tapping your fingers waiting for your port to bind, because we're not putting points into magic (or at least, not enough to cancel stand-alone stealth, as some have suggested).
Or, maybe you're right in that HA may be entirely viable because we can't do enough in time such that we're subject to your attacks before we can burn you down. The problem then becomes the fact that we can't burn you down, despite how much dexterity we have, so pumping points into strength, lowering our damage (that thing we needed in the first place), to equip HA now only serves to help us take one or two more swings before we eat dirt, and now we have a totally pointless PvP class save for how sexy I look when I run with daggers trailing behind me.
P.S.: we have one more form of direct evasion than you do. $$[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
while the assassin class hasn't been out long enough to really known how they preform in pvp you can already tell they are robe killers.
they have no elemental attacks so attacking a barb with an assassin even with heavy armor is stupid, if he is charmed your not killing him.
MAYBE our 2 spark amp skill followed by a thunderstorm off a good genie might help you kill a barb, but barbs are a tank class wearing heavy armor, killing them with physical attacks isn't easy.
So if our targets are magic using classes, why should we cut down our damage, crit and magic defense just so we can have more p def to fight classes we aren't made to kill?0 -
ya sins have huge spike dmg especially when they crit. my crits with slip stream at lvl 25 is 2.1k. imo thats pretty decent and its not maxed yet nor am i using the wolf emblem skill (+12% crit dmg at lvl 1 for those that dont know what wolf emblem does). i nearly one hit mobs if my slip stream crits them. we also get even higher dmging skills the more we lvl and a skill that increases our atk lvl. so it will be VERY eeasy for us to kill mage type classes using arcane and o ther light armor classes pretty quickly.
but heavy armor will be a problem of course because of how long it might take to kill a barb or even a HA BM. imo these types of classes are ment for short quick kills and then move on to the next target. u should avoid any class that will take u a long time to kill like a HA barb. but that still leaves archers/wizards/venos/other sins as potential targets for a sin to take down.
but this is just my viewpoint on how the class can work.
but honestly and seriously sins should not build SPECIFICALLY for Heavy armor. at higher lvls u will not have that quick killing speed power like other sins will have over u. the entire point of ur existance will be pointless because u will be essentially a walking meat pattie that does dmg that wont be enought to kill even the squishiest of players. ur dmg will be annoying at best. im saying this not because im a expert on how to play a sin, im FAR FAR from being a expert on anything. but im saying it just because its common sense. daggers have low dmg out puts just like fists. the ammount of str u need to wear heavy armor will exceed the dex u will require to be the hard hitting spike classes sins will be known for.
u will be a tank that does barely any noticeable dmg on anyone.0 -
anyone else going to point out the dex requirement of daggers? still going to say go HA?Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
I'm not a tank assasssin, personally,
but if a person wants to try something different, let them.
My boyfriend is using a heavy veno, and he's having the best success in the game that he ever has.0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »anyone else going to point out the dex requirement of daggers? still going to say go HA?
lol quil you let cookie catch you level wise =PDrStupid - Sanctuary wrote: »I'm not a tank assasssin, personally,
but if a person wants to try something different, let them.
My boyfriend is using a heavy veno, and he's having the best success in the game that he ever has.
because a heavy veno can work, a ha assassin can't0 -
those HA sins should have waited til 80s or 90s, when you can use the full potential of shards and have near HA armor def using LA........unless they plan to restat0
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sin dex-dmg multiplyer is around 4dmg/dex
a lvl100 sin would need to use 100str more for lvl90HA what lowers his dmg 400 but makes his phy def goes up to hell ! the stealth makes u reach any caster without get a single hit from them and u still can 1shot them... but those 400phy dmg are nothing on my plates...i have with still wrist and boots TT70 14k phy def(only selfbuffed) = 80% less dmg from physical attks so those 400 dmg go down to 80dmg.. i have barb buffed 7k hp..its not much dmg u loose, but HA makes u less squishy than u r. maybe u hit us down to half hp... than u miss and our moment comes and we stun u.. roar of the pride stuns u for 6seconds.. thats more than enough to hit ur 5k hp (whats max ive seen on a sin lvl80'ish so far) u have to 0 when usin LA
friend told me once about pvp in a game with 3letters, 2 of them are a *w* "u cant deal any dmg, not even a lil bit when be dead!" and he is so right about that.. get down from ur *dmg-dmg-dmg* trip for pvp.. thats what ranger can and maybe also should do.. but never a melee
calm down... rly now... i didnt said "sin with LA is fail" i only said, that HA is from a mathematical point of view better for pvp than LA..
and still "sins arent tanker and never will be" <---whats btw the topic0 -
Chobsi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Everyone has different builds. I've seen HA clerics that work, I've seen LA BMs, I wouldnt say any build is fail. Its all on the person behind the character.
yeah and this one time i saw this pro AA barb. i wouldnt mess with him0 -
can i please have some of your lvl 90HA with 100 strength req?Milesluminis - Heavens Tear wrote: »sin dex-dmg multiplyer is around 4dmg/dex
a lvl100 sin would need to use 100str more for lvl90HA what lowers his dmg 400 but makes his phy def goes up to hell ! the stealth makes u reach any caster without get a single hit from them and u still can 1shot them... but those 400phy dmg are nothing on my plates...i have with still wrist and boots TT70 14k phy def(only selfbuffed) = 80% less dmg from physical attks so those 400 dmg go down to 80dmg.. i have barb buffed 7k hp..its not much dmg u loose, but HA makes u less squishy than u r. maybe u hit us down to half hp... than u miss and our moment comes and we stun u.. roar of the pride stuns u for 6seconds.. thats more than enough to hit ur 5k hp (whats max ive seen on a sin lvl80'ish so far) u have to 0 when usin LA
friend told me once about pvp in a game with 3letters, 2 of them are a *w* "u cant deal any dmg, not even a lil bit when be dead!" and he is so right about that.. get down from ur *dmg-dmg-dmg* trip for pvp.. thats what ranger can and maybe also should do.. but never a melee
calm down... rly now... i didnt said "sin with LA is fail" i only said, that HA is from a mathematical point of view better for pvp than LA..
and still "sins arent tanker and never will be" <---whats btw the topic0 -
RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »can i please have some of your lvl 90HA with 100 strength req?
i think he said 100 more STR.. so it's 200++.."male sins all look like **** bags. they need to take out that hunched-over-emoing-at-ground-fidgeting-like-you-have-a-potato-up-your-**** pose."
- Varscona
priceless! and quite true b:chuckleb:chuckle0 -
Milesluminis - Heavens Tear wrote: »sin dex-dmg multiplyer is around 4dmg/dex
a lvl100 sin would need to use 100str more for lvl90HA what lowers his dmg 400 but makes his phy def goes up to hell ! the stealth makes u reach any caster without get a single hit from them and u still can 1shot them... but those 400phy dmg are nothing on my plates...i have with still wrist and boots TT70 14k phy def(only selfbuffed) = 80% less dmg from physical attks so those 400 dmg go down to 80dmg.. i have barb buffed 7k hp..its not much dmg u loose, but HA makes u less squishy than u r. maybe u hit us down to half hp... than u miss and our moment comes and we stun u.. roar of the pride stuns u for 6seconds.. thats more than enough to hit ur 5k hp (whats max ive seen on a sin lvl80'ish so far) u have to 0 when usin LA
friend told me once about pvp in a game with 3letters, 2 of them are a *w* "u cant deal any dmg, not even a lil bit when be dead!" and he is so right about that.. get down from ur *dmg-dmg-dmg* trip for pvp.. thats what ranger can and maybe also should do.. but never a melee
calm down... rly now... i didnt said "sin with LA is fail" i only said, that HA is from a mathematical point of view better for pvp than LA..
and still "sins arent tanker and never will be" <---whats btw the topic
100 dex is more than 400 damage 90+
100 dex is also 5% crit
it's also accuracy/evasion(lolevasion amirite?)
i've fought 90+ sins in open pvp. they die in 3-4 spells with LA. HA would make them 2 shots (3 if they're lucky)
caster tip: sins waste their stuns/seals when you hit absolute domain right after their initial stun b:chuckle
if a sin wants more pdef, refine some pdef orn'sI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
who on earth shal make sin with heavy armor lol ha is for barbs and bms(sometims for venos if us the fox form but can us la to) sins arent meant to tank (expet if shadow form was hier heheh best skil ever {GUILDWARS})
then til then sins are meant to shot in ligthing speed bring up en holy **** fast and mp heavy attack combo and finis the chain with en good shadow escape for if any ador foe begin to get smarter then light armor is good for that (balanced with some phy def and mag def and it neads moor dex then str like daggers) and the hp gain of sin(blood paint on) is pritty low then good tankers got a ton of hp and hp reg (barb got skils for that and bm neads cleric but barb to hehe) then for any one who dos think sin can tank YOUR WRONG(only lower foes where evison blocks most attacks b:pleased happy playing every body0 -
Light armor for archers and sins(everything else is bad i think really)
Heavy for..BMs,Barbs,PvP clerics should try it and Heavy venos are really...worst nightmare of me when was an archer...Mages stay with Arcane or well they can try Heavy armor but they won't rock untill they get sac fire stormNothing is true, everything is permitted
To every assassin class mate...always focus your minds b:chuckle0 -
so youve made a heavy armor sin...gratz. lets see what youve accoplished.
PvE: you can tank better. so...why didnt you make a barb or bm?
PvP: barb: you couldnt take him down before...you sure as hell cant now
BM: same thing. you can take his hits a bit better. but you lack the power to even stand a chance against him.
archer: wow, i have less HP then a BM so he just 1-2 shot me with lighting and i cant even kill hiin stun lock now becasue my attack power blows.
cleric: maybe...if youre lucky, you can still kill them before they can do anything. the second that shield goes up youd better stealth.
wiz: they have pretty good pdef sometimes. so the good ones will survive your pittiful attacks and 1 shot you.
veno: i hope they are AA for your sake. but ever sinse the sins were born ive seen a lot of them restst to HA
psychick: wait until their retaliation shields are down. and you might have a chance
sin: now.....this is the ONLY class that i think you might have a better chance with HA then LA. but even so, id love to see a HA sin my lvl beat me0 -
Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »well if u can wear lower lvl Heavy armor with the 4dex 1 str build and that armor gives u more pdef then ur current lvl light armor then by all means use it. but im just saying dont build ur assassin specifically to wear Heavy armors.
wow ur a idiot, everyone has there own builds, hav u ever seen a fist sin in a fight, they can get amazing damage as well as pure dex sins, sure it might cost more to get there, but still amazing damage still (not as much as pure dex sins ofc) and they r abel t tank. stp dissing people builds, still i am pure dex and i can tank stufff stil, like nob, and i can even solo styg (just gotta survive first 4 hits then he stops moving)0 -
whats next?
arcane sin?
laughing at wizards using pyro,gush until they finally 1shot you with blade tempest? b:chucklei am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Necro much?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Didn't get the rest of it, but apparently I am the "destroyer of sin haters" as well.0 -
Necroed >.>;
On a different note, I sometimes tank because it makes things go faster. With light armor. Precisely BE-cuz my dmg is so high, if/when I go all out (saaay in bh79) the tank just can't keep aggro, so sometimes squad lets me tank, if they want boss dead fast (usually in no-barb squads, where bms tries to tank, I use no sparks after bms attacked for 10-20% hp, and then get aggro quickly >.>). Sure I need more healing than most, but vs. bosses, evasion actually does kick in, and lots of triple sparks means I get to resist a lot of attacks. Meh.
-Azzazin
Edit: The hell is wrong with the forums >.>; I'm lvl 89, not 82. Bahumbug.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Setting of the twilight moon; a late evening rendezvous from atop the
city's lonely heights. With the dawn the city below springs into bustling
activity, and I don my morning apparel. From on high, I watch the world.0
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