Are Fist BM's better DD's then Archers?

$exyCleric - Sanctuary · December 2009

A demon archer vs. a demon fisty? Which one would be a better DD?

Fist Blademaster

Demon Spark + Demon Cyclone Heel + Relentless Courage(pure str genie) + -interval = 5/per second
With the right gear, demon blademasters can get up to 5 hits per sec, that is 1 spark every 4or5 seconds, that would be Infinite Demon Spark. That would be great for TT, FCC, Fb's and other stuff with bosses. Also don't forget those beautiful TT90 gold fists with the zerk effect, but that would lose WAYYYYY to much hp with 5/per sec, and the normal attack for a fisty hits like 4 times less then an archer.
They are also good grinders, normal attack does more damage then using skills, so no need to **** your mp like Axe Bm.

Archer

Demon Spark + Demon Quickshot + -interval gear + other quicken buffs = OWNAGE!
But the quickshot effect does not last that long so it will not be infinite like the fists. But they still hit 4 times higher, plus their amazing critical rate from demon stunning arrow and demon sharpened tooth arrow. Archers also help kill bosses faster with that BEAUTIFUL sharpened tooth arrow and blood vow at 100. Blood Vow also gives 1.5x more attack plus 4444 plus 25% more damage.(At least that is what ecatomb.net says), Demon Spark + spark apochetary + blood vow + demon quickshot +other quicken buffs = MORE OWNAGE!

I do not know which character i should start, they are both great DD's. I wanna be a great DD so i can find more TT, fcc runs later.

If you can, please state your opinion.b:shutup

Bartack - Heavens Tear · December 2009

If you plan on using that kind of dps on a boss with either toon, you had better be ready to tank that boss as well.

Devoted - Lost City · December 2009

demon fist bm, they are the endgame tanks ^^

Cirdan - Lost City · December 2009

$exyCleric - Sanctuary wrote: »

A demon archer vs. a demon fisty? Which one would be a better DD?

Fist Blademaster
Demon Spark + Demon Cyclone Heel + Relentless Courage(pure str genie) + -interval = 5/per second
With the right gear, demon blademasters can get up to 5 hits per sec, that is 1 spark every 4or5 seconds, that would be Infinite Demon Spark. That would be great for TT, FCC, Fb's and other stuff with bosses. Also don't forget those beautiful TT90 gold fists with the zerk effect, but that would lose WAYYYYY to much hp with 5/per sec, and the normal attack for a fisty hits like 4 times less then an archer.
They are also good grinders, normal attack does more damage then using skills, so no need to **** your mp like Axe Bm.

Archer
Demon Spark + Demon Quickshot + -interval gear + other quicken buffs = OWNAGE!
But the quickshot effect does not last that long so it will not be infinite like the fists. But they still hit 4 times higher, plus their amazing critical rate from demon stunning arrow and demon sharpened tooth arrow. Archers also help kill bosses faster with that BEAUTIFUL sharpened tooth arrow and blood vow at 100. Blood Vow also gives 1.5x more attack plus 4444 plus 25% more damage.(At least that is what ecatomb.net says), Demon Spark + spark apochetary + blood vow + demon quickshot +other quicken buffs = MORE OWNAGE!

I do not know which character i should start, they are both great DD's. I wanna be a great DD so i can find more TT, fcc runs later.

If you can, please state your opinion.b:shutup

As far as all those atk speed buffs for archers and fist bm's, they don't stack. If I could start all over and have all the best -int gear, I prolly would have gone for the fist bm. The fastest atk spped I've heard of is 4 atk/sec for a fist BM. As for archers, I don't think they can get higher than 2.5, must be a class limitation cuz I've seen no difference between demon spark(25%) and demon quickshot(30%) when I use fists and -int gear.

Demon quickshot has a 3 sec cooldown and has a 50% chance to raise atk speed by 30% for 5 secs, and takes about 1.6sec? to cast. As long as you are lucky enough to get that 50% repeatedly, archers can sustain a faster atk rate. For BM's you got to have some really expensive -int gear(tome, cape, wrists, rank chest, bonus stat from hh99 gold gear if you have it, and Nirvana leggings when they come out are some things you could get) to spam 3spark constantly. Although if you count spamming 3 spark as once every 25 secs, then 2.5 atks/sec is all you need.

Tomiko - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Demon fist warrior I believe will out DPS a demon archer over time, although I don't think there is that big of a damage difference between a demon archer and a demon fist warrior(depends a lot on gear). Archer has the benefit of ranged attacks, while a warrior has an assortment of melee weapons and skills. It's more of a matter of taste I think.

However, you mentioned finding TT and FF. It will probably be easier as a warrior to find FF/RB parties assuming you also cross-trained some axe skills, but as a warrior your TT 3-2 and 3-3 life is going to be hell.

Quilue - Sanctuary · December 2009

Demon fist BMs are better because they attack very fast and will be able to spark quickly and frequently. if he doesn't spark tho then forget it

Telarith - Sanctuary · December 2009

Yeah, pretty much the spark coverage is what does it for fist BM. We hit the animation limit of 5 attacks per second, which is enough to hit demon spark once it falls. Because of that, there is a constant 5 multiplier added on to our damage. This makes it real easy to out damage a similarly equipped ranged weapon archer, even when counting the 60% refinement bonus fists get compared to ranged weaponry.

Topped out an archer should have 1.33 APS with the bow that tends to be used for comparisons, and only reaches 1.43 APS if the demon quickshot bonus happens when not sparked. So most of the time will be spent out of sparked status, which drops their damage in comparison to a large degree.

Plus, the higher the damage is, the more it is a sure thing they will be the tank. And for that, they would need to survive tanking in addition to dealing lots of damage. BMs will usually have a better chance at that, with the higher armor they have.

Pretty sure there is a post either in general or BM section that did a comparison between the two, went more into math for it and all.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · December 2009

That would be this thread, that I started: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=482762

The math was done using my build, which is a hybrid archer, and a higher level fist BM with Lunar fists. I stole aggro b/c he did not spark often enough.

Your math didn't include Blazing Arrow, by the way. But nonetheless, with the constant sparks, fist BM should win.

screwnickslol · December 2009

there's some archers that use fists for demonsparking in melee... but that's a different strategy/comparison all together

Telarith - Sanctuary · December 2009

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That would be this thread, that I started: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=482762

The math was done using my build, which is a hybrid archer, and a higher level fist BM with Lunar fists. I stole aggro b/c he did not spark often enough.

Your math didn't include Blazing Arrow, by the way. But nonetheless, with the constant sparks, fist BM should win.

Saw that one, but it's a different one I'm searching for. It listed with more end game equipment instead of just current grade, where the 5 APS is taken into account. I remember it ending with stating blade could likely out-DPS archer as well. Trying to find it, as it multiplied APS by refine % and had other melee weapon paths in there as well. Been scrolling through trying to find it, as it had the math already done.

EDIT: Found it.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5447742&postcount=17

Are Fist BM's better DD's then Archers?

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