Stall at LVL 46???

BadFinger - Harshlands · December 2009

I was thinking I might stop lvling for awhile at lvl 46(when all my gears are up to date) and exp infuse genie while doin BH,CS,and grinding for money,SP,manufacturing,skill ect.

Any thoughts?

Absoluth - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Here's my thought: Its senseless. Why prevent your char from reaching a higher level faster? Just because your skills may not all be up-to-date, doesnt mean your char will suck doing higher level stuff.

MiliaFallyna - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Why stop at lv46? why not 40? 50? 46 seems like a random number b:chuckle Seriously though, why stop? As mentioned above, there is no need to prevent/stall your characters growth. Most quest usually give you quest items/gear that you can use. Those should be sufficient for the time being. Collecting useless items and sellin them off could get you temp gear as well. Just my few cents b:thanks

Aadi - Lost City · December 2009

He said 46 because it's a level where his gear is up to date.

If you were going to stop your character, I would have done it at a much lower level, where you have the advantage of catshopping material drops and making good coin.

I knew someone that went through every level twice, once with just grinding. She had every single cleric skill leveled...I was jealous b:surrender

Andareil - Lost City · December 2009

I stopped leveling at 85 because rebirth is good for money and spirit grinding b:victory

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · December 2009

No.

..........

Elviron - Dreamweaver · December 2009

To each their own I guess.

I for one am a staller at certain intervals for various reasons. Following are mine:-

At level 42

1.) Needed mats for upgrading the manufacturing skills and make the 2* items needed for the lvl4 quest without spending a ton of coins on buying the 2* items or the mats.
2.) Needed cash and spirit for skills.

At level 72

1.) Need cash for getting the TT80 mats.

So yea, if the OP wants to stall for these reasons, then go ahead. I would also suggest not doing any of the dailies if you truely want to stall.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · December 2009

You're not 'catching up', you're falling behind.

You have less XP than you would have if you don't decide to stop.
You're going to be at a lower level too. At higher levels you can accumulate SP and money much faster than you can at 46. In this game skills lag a bit behind XP but that's no reason to stop getting more XP.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · December 2009

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're not 'catching up', you're falling behind.

You have less XP than you would have if you don't decide to stop.
You're going to be at a lower level too. At higher levels you can accumulate SP and money much faster than you can at 46. In this game skills lag a bit behind XP but that's no reason to stop getting more XP.

^this.
your exp, monies, and spirit gain increases with level.
thats why me ebil plan starts off with leveling really fast.
(^.^)

Quilue - Sanctuary · December 2009

You should realize that at higher levels it is much easier and faster to obtain exp and coin. Ever squadded with Astypoo to see how fast she grinds in OVS? Qui has b:cute

now take Qui to RB so Qui can go to OVS too! b:chuckle

Elviron - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Well usually a single level of decreased levelling balances it out :P Doesnt mean they need to stall all through 4x.

One entire level without doing the dailies isnt too hard. I get like 300k or more for every 10% and at 150% (including genie exp) would get me enough to speed up my levelling from that point on

Foltern - Sanctuary · December 2009

Hi. ^_^

I think it's a great idea!!!

When I started my archer after retiring my healer. I decided I would play through the game differently than my previous char.

I dump my exp into genies and max my skills every level. ( Well, actually I farm the next level SP one level before, So at level 45 I grind all level 46 SP then level ) SP will always be 20 % of any exp you get in the game. There is a lot of extra exp and less SP of course.

That forces players to judge which skills are the most valuable and not have SP to level other ones which might be helpful. I stayed in the 4x range for a long time, weeks actually using the level 42 legendary slingshot to farm materials for my manufacturing skills to farm Sp and rep also for rank. I'm very glad I did. Also 4x is good for farming leather ^__^.

I enjoy the benefits of having all my player skills maxed and my manufacturing skills maxed as well. I prefer manufacturing all my own gear and I feel it makes a player a bit more valuable to have in a faction when they can do that for other players too.

Many times on my healer, I spammed my strongest skills and used very weak ones while strong ones were in cooldown. Looking back I wish I had stayed lower level and farmed the necessary SP to level more skills.

On my archer that is not the case, all skills are strong and deliver destructive damage to both players and mobs. In my opinion only, if you wait until your higher level to do this, you have already potentially been under-powered for what I personally consider to be the most engaging parts of the game. There are many quests to guide you through and help you level in the beginning range which I think is fun. Once you hit higher levels you usually level by grinding using BH, CS and worldquests. Or you can also gain exp to level using the Cube of Fate or Rebirth and other specialized methods. I personally feel there is less reasons for myself only to level quickly and end what I am enjoying about the engaging PVE aspects of the game. I think most players never consider doing this or ever get to have the experience.

Currently I am level 69, I said already my skills are maxed ( I have enough SP to cover my level 71 skills ) and my gear is also caught up I have gridded level 69 7 times. I will start on number 8 after dump my 83 % into another genie. I will not level to 70 until I have enough money to make some TT rings and finish getting my manufacturing skills to level 5 100%. At this time they are all level 5 and slightly above 51 % or so and I need more mats. It s been 5 months of hard work to construct my char but on my healer it took only 3 months to get to level 73. I feel that PWI is really fast fun and I encourage anything you can do to make it more fun for you despite what other players think.

Regards

MagicHamsta - Lost City · December 2009

Not enough spirit....a problem?
me has 6 mil spirit right now.
b:sweat

Olba - Sanctuary · December 2009

Stalling is never a good idea, especially since at the higher levels, you eventually end up in a situation where the skills cost hundreds of thousands of coin and spirit to level.

And hey, the Demon skills each cost 1 million or 2 million spirit and coin.

Quilue - Sanctuary · December 2009

if you want to discover your character and stuff like that go ahead. there are guides for what skills to get and what skills to not get anyways

Elviron - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

Stalling is never a good idea, especially since at the higher levels, you eventually end up in a situation where the skills cost hundreds of thousands of coin and spirit to level.

And hey, the Demon skills each cost 1 million or 2 million spirit and coin.

Umm just a thought but doesnt that actually encourage stalling? o.O

Stalling lets you gain more spirit and coin, and if you need loads of it at higher levels, why not do it? Unless you wanna be a higher level and not have the skills of the equipment usable at that stage. The players who levelled without BHs or CSes wouldnt have encountered this problem since they wouldve got enough coins by grinding for their lvls.

The only reason i stall 1 or 2 lvls is to get mats when the drop rates are good and only till am done with them.

PS: My definition of stalling is not doing dailies and infuse the same lvl genie with full exp and complete the level using ur available quests and grinding. I do not mean that you do the entire level 5~6 times like Foltern. In fact this wouldnt really be stalling but just levelling how people levelled before the dailies were made available.

Olba - Sanctuary · December 2009

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stalling lets you gain more spirit and coin, and if you need loads of it at higher levels, why not do it? Unless you wanna be a higher level and not have the skills of the equipment usable at that stage. The players who levelled without BHs or CSes wouldnt have encountered this problem since they wouldve got enough coins by grinding for their lvls.

You gain more spirit and coin at higher levels. And really, there is absolutely no reason to have all the skills maxed for every single level, that would mean stalling about every 3 levels.

Also, grinding at higher levels is highly inefficient: I get about 500 exp per mob, but I need almost 5,000,000 to level up. Now, I get 200,000 per BH, so a single BH or WQ is equal to slaying 400 mobs and it takes about a fraction of that time.

At higher levels, people generally do TTs or farm mats for coin to fund their items and their dailies.

The only reason i stall 1 or 2 lvls is to get mats when the drop rates are good and only till am done with them.

That is indeed one of the reasons I personally regret. I am now stuck with low level crafting skills since mobs don't drop those mats anymore, so I am either forced to buy the mats at huge prices or make an alt just to farm those mats.

Really, if you just skip dailies and grind a level, that is fine. It makes good coin, just takes a lot of time and patience. But doing dailies, putting all of that exp to a Genie and then re-doing that until you have all of your skills maxed is foolish.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver · December 2009

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

Not enough spirit....a problem?
me has 6 mil spirit right now.
b:sweat

wtf? how did u manage that,xD?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · December 2009

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stalling lets you gain more spirit and coin, and if you need loads of it at higher levels, why not do it?

My god how? How is it that you are gaining more spirit and coin by wasting XP? What about your behavior causes you to gain more spirit or coin than if you don't waste your XP?

The rate at which you accumulate SP does not increase by that behavior. The only difference is that you will be stuck at a lower level for longer. Actually because of that penalty you will not be able to accumulate as much coins or spirit as you would at a higher level.

Elviron - Dreamweaver · December 2009

@Asterelle
Well the best way to stall is to infuse the exp into a genie. And when you do that, you still have the spirit left for getting that exp. Hence effectively you are gaining more spirit per level since you need to rebuild the exp you infused into your genie. Am sure its pretty easy enough to understand.

As for coins...CS makes you lose coins, BH wouldnt get you much returns since in most of the cases its random squads and drops go to whoever gets it. Also at higher levels you spend on wines for BH quests. The only time you might actually make some money is when you get Mold drops on BH quests and that if youre lucky enough to get it and have a squad which is fair.

So how do you fund you ammo, equips, skills? Even they cost 200k you need to make it first and the only way youre gonna do that is grinding. Stalling helps here in a very good way. If its TT, then getting a good squad and a fair one at that is gonna be difficult for DDs unless you have an awesome faction to help you get the mats (not everyone is this lucky).

At my currently level if i grind 10% a day (roughly 140k exp and takes about 2~3 hrs) I can make like 300k+ after repairs. So doing an entire level like that would potentially get me like 3~4 mils. Hence stalling or simply grinding normally is a good option for 1~2 levels. Would help a lot in the long run.

@OP
Just skip your dailies and grind 1~2 levels after completing your quests. That should set you fine for your equips and mats. Once you have the necessary stuff just start your dailies.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · December 2009

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Asterelle
Well the best way to stall is to infuse the exp into a genie. And when you do that, you still have the spirit left for getting that exp. Hence effectively you are gaining more spirit per level since you need to rebuild the exp you infused into your genie. Am sure its pretty easy enough to understand.

The only reason you are getting more spirit per level is that your levels are taking longer. You arent getting spirit faster. You are actually getting spirit slower since you're lower level. Because you are getting spirit slower it will ultimately take you longer to max your skills.

I admit there is some marginal utility in leveling your genie but it is not nearly as much as leveling yourself. If your genie gains one level you can add say 1 point of vit to increase its energy pool by 1. If you gain a level you get like 30 more hp, 20 more mp, more attack, more dex, access to higher level quests and content, more reward from crazy stone, etc. Genies are just not as important as all that.

Elviron - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Well the point here was that you although you get a little more spirit the main advantage in stalling is funding for skills and equips.

Am sure coins dont grow on trees here. If I did just quests and dailies and level, I wont have enough money to level my skills even if I had boat loads of spirit. Whats the point in that?

I know many people who have the spirit but no coins to buy the skills and hence dump spirit into the genie <.<.

Higher level content is only enjoyable if youre well geared and skilled for it. If

Anyways this is how I enjoy game content. Some like it fast, some like it slow, some plan before hand, etc

In the end, I guess we all choose how we want to enjoy the game. The only ccontent that really changes are the instances and the equips. And am pretty sure no squad is gonna let in an underskilled/equipped archer for those or do they b:shocked ?

Umm a question, what did you do at 4x or 7x? Run only dailies and quests? If so how did you manage to get all the skills and equips? Am sure you wouldve hunted and collected loads of drops and perhaps the things werent all that expensive at that time like how it is now.

Olba - Sanctuary · December 2009

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Asterelle
Well the best way to stall is to infuse the exp into a genie. And when you do that, you still have the spirit left for getting that exp. Hence effectively you are gaining more spirit per level since you need to rebuild the exp you infused into your genie. Am sure its pretty easy enough to understand.

As Asterelle points out, your exp:spirit ratio is still the same, just that you're manually multiplying the requirement amount of experience by a factor, which obviously multiplies the amount of spirit you also get. Does nothing to the ratio, though.

As for coins...CS makes you lose coins, BH wouldnt get you much returns since in most of the cases its random squads and drops go to whoever gets it. Also at higher levels you spend on wines for BH quests. The only time you might actually make some money is when you get Mold drops on BH quests and that if youre lucky enough to get it and have a squad which is fair.

Oh? I made a fair bit of coin when I was farming mats for my wines. Not to mention when I farmed mats for my armor.

So how do you fund you ammo, equips, skills? Even they cost 200k you need to make it first and the only way youre gonna do that is grinding. Stalling helps here in a very good way. If its TT, then getting a good squad and a fair one at that is gonna be difficult for DDs unless you have an awesome faction to help you get the mats (not everyone is this lucky).

TTs fund new gear and some skills. Doing quests does the same.

And yes, being factionless at a higher level is a waste of resources. I realized this and joined a faction.

At my currently level if i grind 10% a day (roughly 140k exp and takes about 2~3 hrs) I can make like 300k+ after repairs. So doing an entire level like that would potentially get me like 3~4 mils. Hence stalling or simply grinding normally is a good option for 1~2 levels. Would help a lot in the long run.

Grinding normally gets you coin, yes. However, if you were faster, you would get better equips and kill higher level monsters. Higher level monsters drop better stuff, and having better equips lets you kill faster.

And really, grinding a level at the higher levels is just insane. In my case, I would need a good 10,000 mobs for a level. Assuming that I want a level in 10 days, that's 1,000 mobs a day. Now, how many hours do you think that would take? Well, CS gets me about 190,000 exp in 20 minutes or so. That's equal to getting 470,000 exp per hour. Now, considering that I get about 500 exp per mob, that's a good 940 mobs. Just from CS. So to compare to CS, I would need to kill about 16 mobs every minute, or 4 seconds each mob. Not quite possible, I'd say.

Just from dailies, I can get about 590,000 exp a day at a cost of about 150,000 coins. To fund myself, farming mats is more than sufficient. And you know, I can actually do my homework while farming those mats.

And personally, I absolutely love to see myself closing the gap to a friend of mine, who was in her 80s when I started PWI. Now, she's 92 and I am 82. Actually, said friend liked to grind when she was on vacation, because she said it was relaxing. However, now that she is back to studying, she doesn't do that anymore because the amount of time required for it to be rewarding is too much, so she plays on her Cleric or Archer, which are a good 30 levels lower.

Elviron - Dreamweaver · December 2009

@Olba,
-> Exp to Spirit ratio is almost always 5:1. More exp needed to pass one level, more spirit gained for that level. I am pretty I never said you get more spirit per kill <.<. Its the end result I was referring to.

-> Doings quests does not cover much of skill or gear costs. Farming TT mats would cover the costs if you had a bunch of people you can trust and who wouldnt need the mats u do.

-> Better equips for killing higher level mobs can be got if you actually earned enough to buy them in the first place. A viscious circle indeed.

-> I dont have homework to do so I guess i can grind instead of farming mats b:victory. In anycase, I need to farm mats for making subs.

At your level I am pretty sure I would be done with my lvl6 crafting skills and my TT80 set (50% done), soulsmasher (just need 7 subs), flashfire and hopefully a cape of tauren chieftien so I wouldnt need any reason to grind on mobs that much.

Anyways I dont think arguing here would solve anything. its just a way to increase pc. To each their own.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · December 2009

I was essentially solo until my late 70s. I still did fine in terms of wealth. I had coins via grinding and playing the market. Lots of grinding.

Until you get into the 80s, don't wine BH. If you feel doing BH sucks up too much time, then go ahead and skip that.

Don't waste XP on a genie. Everyone who is high level is saying this. We are saying this for a reason. Increasing your SP-to-XP ratio is not worth it by purposely dumping XP into a genie. You earn more SP in later levels, and just because you cannot max every skill in your repertoire now does not imply this is an issue later. Just go level.

You want money, go grind. When you are 60+, grind some more, or do TT runs. I still recommend grinding until the 70s. Dumping XP into a genie to increase your money-to-level ratio makes. no. freaking. sense.

Foltern - Sanctuary · December 2009

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

You gain more spirit and coin at higher levels. And really, there is absolutely no reason to have all the skills maxed for every single level, that would mean stalling about every 3 levels.

That is indeed one of the reasons I personally regret. I am now stuck with low level crafting skills since mobs don't drop those mats anymore, so I am either forced to buy the mats at huge prices or make an alt just to farm those mats.

Really, if you just skip dailies and grind a level, that is fine. It makes good coin, just takes a lot of time and patience. But doing dailies, putting all of that exp to a Genie and then re-doing that until you have all of your skills maxed is foolish.

Hi ^^, I would like to say I did not recommend that anyone do what I was doing.

Also:

- I have more skills leveled higher than a player 15 levels higher who does not dump exp. Because of this, I am stronger and more effective as a combatant in a larger variety of situations compared to other Archers my level or even higher levels whether or not it is necessary.

- My job is to deal damage when I am in parties, I hope we can both agree having leveled skills helps you deal more damage.

- I did not have to buy any mats to level my manufacturing. When I have level 6 at level 70 ( I will not level to 71 until I have level 6 ). I will then enjoy selling 10 levels worth of collecting extra drops I don't need.

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

Really, if you just skip dailies and grind a level, that is fine. It makes good coin, just takes a lot of time and patience.

Your right and that is what I am doing. It is fun for me and I make plenty of money even without selling mats. That covers the cost of my repairs, my next sets of skills and my gear with most any enhancements.

In my opinion only, I don't think it is foolish for my char to possess the supreme power endowed by having all my skills maxed because I "stall".

Regards.

Olba - Sanctuary · December 2009

Foltern - Sanctuary wrote: »

- I have more skills leveled higher than a player 15 levels higher who does not dump exp. Because of this, I am stronger and more effective as a combatant in a larger variety of situations compared to other Archers my level or even higher levels whether or not it is necessary.

Up until now, most of the skills that I use I have not found useful. Grinding regularly, I only use Frost Arrow, Blazing Arrow, Winged Blessing, Bow Mastery, Wings of Protection and Knockback Arrow. Out of those, only Bow Mastery and Wings of Protection cannot be maxed by lvl 59.

- My job is to deal damage when I am in parties, I hope we can both agree having leveled skills helps you deal more damage.

Archers get most DPS out of using normal attacks. When in a party, the only skills I use actively are Wings of Protection, Blazing Arrow and Sharpened Tooth Arrow. And you know what? I have all of them maxed for my level and it did not require any stalling. Granted, I did farm some mats and herbs for coin, but that's it.

- I did not have to buy any mats to level my manufacturing. When I have level 6 at level 70 ( I will not level to 71 until I have level 6 ). I will then enjoy selling 10 levels worth of collecting extra drops I don't need.

Manufacturing is about the only thing useful about stalling. But that can be avoided by farming coin or by making an alt.

In my opinion only, I don't think it is foolish for my char to possess the supreme power endowed by having all my skills maxed because I "stall".

Again, normal attacks do more damage. You would get more damage out of farming coins and adding a refine or a socket or a higher level shard to your weapon. Or getting a better ring.

-> Doings quests does not cover much of skill or gear costs. Farming TT mats would cover the costs if you had a bunch of people you can trust and who wouldnt need the mats u do.

That's why you get a faction.

-> Better equips for killing higher level mobs can be got if you actually earned enough to buy them in the first place. A viscious circle indeed.

And getting those better equipments will in turn let you upgrade your killing speed, therefore upgrading everything else at it too.

-> I dont have homework to do so I guess i can grind instead of farming mats . In anycase, I need to farm mats for making subs.

Doesn't have to be homework. I cook, do homework, chat with people while doing WQ or farming mats.

Foltern - Sanctuary · December 2009

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Don't waste XP on a genie. Everyone who is high level is saying this. We are saying this for a reason. Increasing your SP-to-XP ratio is not worth it by purposely dumping XP into a genie. You earn more SP in later levels, and just because you cannot max every skill in your repertoire now does not imply this is an issue later. Just go level.

In my opinion only, Of course a player doesn't need to max every skill. I don't think its a problem to stall. Your are correct, you do get more Sp later in levels.

A player can max their skills after level 90 or whenever they are getting extra SP. In my personal experience and opinion only, Its more helpful and valuable to have them leveled when they are available. You are dealing more damage and of course that translates into faster kills.

That does not mean it is faster to level by stalling to level those skills, but I think it helps a lot if you focus on critical skills and stall to get some extra ones leveled. I feel that little bit of extra effort to get it done goes a long way at lower levels when you need to be strong also. I retired a char with which I did not do this at all. I found I was unable to level skills I thought would be very helpful. I leveled too quickly to afford good gear or make good money. I also did not have my manufacturing skills leveled and once I started making the transition between mid and higher levels I was not having fun.

Anyhow, That is my opinion only. ^.^

Regards.

Foltern - Sanctuary · December 2009

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

Manufacturing is about the only thing useful about stalling. But that can be avoided by farming coin or by making an alt.

My archer was my alt it is now my main. ^^

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

Again, normal attacks do more damage.

Actually your right. b:laugh I didn't say what I meant. I meant to post it's more valuable for a solo player like myself.

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

You would get more damage out of farming coins and adding a refine or a socket or a higher level shard to your weapon. Or getting a better ring. And getting those better equipments will in turn let you upgrade your killing speed, therefore upgrading everything else at it too.

I agree ^.^

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=4faf812910d7a61a

Well I have stated my opinion only, All done here. Have a great discussion everyone ^o^

Regards.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · December 2009

My last probably futile attempt. Consider two archers:

Archer A who stalls at every level by dumping XP into a genie or otherwise throwing it away until all skills, all manufacturing, and the genie level are maxed.

Archer B who allocates SP only to the most important skills when she can afford it and never stalls.

Say they start at the same time and both use SP only for skills and play for similar amounts of time. B is clearly a higher level than archer A. Because B has been at higher levels for longer, B has accumulated more total spirit and more coins than A. Because B has more spirit and more coins, B has higher level skills on average than archer A (how can archer A have higher skills with less SP to work with?).

Archer A with her maxed skills and crafts looks good when compared to other archers of A's level but that is because she has played longer than them. She does not look good compared to archer B who has higher level skills due to having more SP.

Archer A has been actively leveling her genie and may have a higher level genie than B. This is not guaranteed. Genies passively level from gaining 10% of XP from quests or grinding. Because of this, if B has her genie equipped at all times, it is impossible for the genie to fall more than 10 or so levels behind archer B. Depending on the excessiveness of stalling, archer A may fall more than 10 levels behind archer B.

Archer A is jogging in place while looking around at all the people passing her while thinking how great it is to have better skills than them. Archer B is way out ahead with better skills, better equipment, more money but does not have skills that stand out against the people she is running with.

Trying not to boast I am standing here at the end of the race, I have every skill at level 11 and am waiting for both A and B to come join me on a BH100 (which makes on average 1million coins per hour). Which of them is going to get to me first?

Angel - Harshlands · December 2009

^
This, enough said.
If you have enough time and are content with staying at a lower level for longer.. um go for it? I honestly don't understand why someone wouldn't want to level if they could, grinding is tedious enough at high levels, why make it more tedious. To each their own I guess.

Stall at LVL 46???

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