FF: Archer and Cleric dynamics

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Greetings, heroes.

When doing FF, I find myself often tanking the mobs, by virtue of dealing the most damage. I certainly don't mind this, but I do not know how much burden is placed upon the cleric that is healing me, with my Light Armor and 5.6k health.

More specifically, I sometimes wonder if I am jumping the gun a bit when I fire into a squad of mobs in FF. How do I know when the cleric is ready for the squad to engage a group of mobs? It seems excessive to ask at every group of mobs, "Ready?" Yet at the same time, I do not want to start too early and be accused of poor teamwork. Is there some sort of hint to indicate when the cleric is ready?

Also, are clerics unused to archers tanking (in general)? I often see Ironhearts stack on a full-health Blademaster or Barbarian who are not taking any damage while my HP bar is going down. Should I simply mention at the beginning of the FF run to everyone that I will be tanking? Or should I expect an 80+ cleric to be able to adapt to the situation as needed? Honest question: I don't know if targetting lag and cast lag are factors in this.

RedsRose - Lost City · December 2009

The higher up in levels, the more the cleric will know what to look for. Also, archers at higher levels are notorious for stealing aggro.

Just stick with the "ready" or let them know from the beginning that you are tanking.

A good cleric should be able to anticipate or even "see" the aggro changes right when it does.

*shrugs*

PS --> Targeting lags can be a factor and are a pain but an experienced cleric should be able to deal with them.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2009

i know an archer that likes to take aggro at every chance he got, i know one wizzy too. I dont mind the aggro taking if;

-you can keep the aggro on you, then we know who to focus cures on most. Dont let it ping pong all over the place between the barb, bm, wizzy, and archer, the weakest one will fall first and it might domino from there.

-wellspring surge is instant cure, but ironheart is the one that keeps the DD alive long time but it is not instant. Just make sure the cleric is in healing range and think about the timing when wellspring or IH kicks in. Usually IH is used.

Most of the BH runs i go to, pple with the aoe dmgs just run and spam, including wizzy and archer. Its nice and fast and works if the DD spammers check if the cleric is near, and dont start when the healer is still 2miles away.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · December 2009

For the clerics not healing the real tank, it seems to only be an issue in FF random groups, as opposed to level 90+ BH random groups. I am making the hypothesis that clerics in the 80s are not used to the mass destruction that result from random groups going on a rampage toward their goal.

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Also, archers at higher levels are notorious for stealing aggro.

Usually for BHs, I run up to the mob so that I only deal half damage, in order to not steal aggro...

... and then I crit 4 times consecutively.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2009

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For the clerics not healing the real tank, it seems to only be an issue in FF random groups, as opposed to level 90+ BH random groups. I am making the hypothesis that clerics in the 80s are not used to the mass destruction that result from random groups going on a rampage toward their goal.

Usually for BHs, I run up to the mob so that I only deal half damage, in order to not steal aggro...

... and then I crit 4 times consecutively.

Hopefully theyll get used to it b:chuckle the rampage i mean

The archer/wizzy i know, and this is usually at BH99 Seat of Torment, as soon as im in cure range they start aoe-ing who-cares-the-barbBM-isnt-here. b:laugh

Alantor - Dreamweaver · December 2009

I've seen lots of instances where the archer takes aggro from either boss(es) or mobs.

Tbh, i don't play an archer, but i like the dmg they do (esp crit), but i KNOW what to look for and when to cast heals on an archer.

I can tell you this though :

Any decent cleric with a bit of experience WILL keep you alive. Wether you're tanking or Dding or just taking aggro. As long as DDers (in this case archers) put their trust in me, i will do my best not to let em down.

when you go with cleric and tank + others into an instance, the cleric will know what the tank can handle. If he's good, he knows when to heal the archer while the tank can take a bit a dmg.

I always said it and i will say it again. A decent cleric, meaning one that tries his/her best, WILL see things developing, lag not considered. And those are the ones that will keep you "safe".

NO decent tank will complain when you , the cleric, will heal the DD (archer) when he keeps everyone alive.

When archers tank, the "ready" from a cleric who knows this, is enough to put your trust in them. IF they can't take it, their bad clerics.

Mrvate - Heavens Tear · December 2009

I'm perfectly ok with archer taking aggro in FF runs on mobs, just please try to refrain from taking aggro on boss's. It also isn't a bad idea to just give the cleric a whisper if you think your going to take aggro at the beginning of the run.

TheUnjudged - Heavens Tear_1274701008 · December 2009

when I had my lvl 85 cleric I knew exactly when the archer pulled aggro so I focused on keeping them healthy then watched for the tank. but on bh's and stuff I was usually the secondary cleric to handle the archers and venos while the other cleric handled the tank.

rst777 · December 2009

first as a cleric i think we should say thanks for actually wanting to get to know how we can work with you.
as far as the "ready?" part goes, yeah it gets annoying for all concerned. but it is better than having a **** up because we arent ready.
maybe a shorthand can be established at the beginning of a run to speed things up.
a simple ? can be made to mean "ready?"
and a ! can mean "go for it!"
heck you could just ask the cleric to do a double jump to indicate that they are aware and ready.
or, if you plan on tanking anyway, tell them to start it off by casting an IB when they are ready. not only does this give indication that they are ready but gives a heal to start you off, thus giving you time to establish some agro.

Kawakami - Dreamweaver · December 2009

I will heal however is losing hp, but if an archer intends to tank I would like to know beforehand, to avoid any unnecessary IH stacks on the assumed tank. But yeah, some people are slow ( or occupied with something else and just using their heal macro ) and some just try to click on your character instead of the name in the squad list..

Best bet is to know the Cleric you get in your squad before making any assumptions.

Vivre - Harshlands · December 2009

It really depends on the situation but it is usually more annoying to heal a tanking archer than a barb, since archers will need more IH spams to keep them alive. And if the archer dies, the healing cleric is usually the next to get attacked. It's a lot safer to let a barb tank =/

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Communication of intent is always welcome. By all means, if you wanna tank or think you're going to pull aggro (but haven't yet) then please speak up. Help us help you so neither of us looks like an idiot at the end of the day. b:thanks

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · December 2009

My thanx, everyone, for your input.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · December 2009

yea yea any normal not-using-macro-and-making-dinner-atm cleric shud keep u alive without much effort

btw
any bms reading this? xD

guys when u run into bishops/foxies group to stun, remember that they aoe freeze and cler may be frozen outta heal range b:chuckle

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2009

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

That is not necessarily up to us.

(Tigers have a skill which lets them take aggro from us, even if they can not keep it unless we stay out of battle until the boss is dead.)

Youd be surprised how many melee play 'who-can-take-the-most-aggro'

VILKASS - Sanctuary · December 2009

b:quiet I often just set up bb (if bb heals are enough that is) & b:avoid when I see high lvl DDs in squad where the tank will most likely lose agro.

Youd be surprised how many melee play 'who-can-take-the-most-aggro'

I swear =.= it's their life's goal sometimes...

(Tigers have a skill which lets them take aggro from us, even if they can not keep it unless we stay out of battle until the boss is dead.)

Um... with some archers (=_= & especially certain fist bms) I can continiuosly spam all agro skills

they still tanking.

Notmalian - Sanctuary · December 2009

I personnaly watch with attention to whoever is attacking so i can see if someone is ggroed and stack IH on him before mobs attack him, and i always watch to Archers and Wizz.

Secondly how to know if a cleric is ready? Just when he is near squad, not 10meters behind like often. Its my role to keep you alive so during an instance im in constance alert, sont worry ^^ well after it depends on clerics so be ready to shield and pots.

And btw, i love to be in a suicidal squad, coz now everyone is "exp", not dangerous anymore so not very funny for us clerics lol so keep attacking like a nut, we love this ;p

Ussichu - Sanctuary · December 2009

Do what I do

I voice chat with my cleric (since me and her have a partnership XD)

Well, usually the best thing to do in FF when you as a DD is taking the lead is to get BB up then lure the mobs yourself using ST or wingspan just when you get inside of BB as the mobs start to catch up so they don't hit the cleric..

in other instances I'd always just aim low > quickshot and then the other DDs and I kill the mob within the 8 seconds... Multiple mobs? Coordinate attacks differently...

Aya__ - Heavens Tear · December 2009

I love having DDs on squad, things go so fast with them b:thanks

archers and wizards make very good tanks, for some bossess even better than barbs. yes, i appreciate knowing who plans on tanking. i try to pay attention to all people in squad though, so usually have enough time to react anyway. and 'ready?' is good idea regardless of whos planning to tank too...

worst thing squad done to me? drake bh, me, 2 bms and veno. we agreed i start tanking (best mag def) then whoever steals aggro keeps it and i heal.. yeah, sure... 1 bm run up to drake as soon as veno pulled it, then they all ping ponged aggro between them. for the whole of drakes 1,3 mil hp b:cry

Quilue - Sanctuary · December 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

i know an archer that likes to take aggro at every chance he got, i know one wizzy too. I dont mind the aggro taking if;

-you can keep the aggro on you, then we know who to focus cures on most. Dont let it ping pong all over the place between the barb, bm, wizzy, and archer, the weakest one will fall first and it might domino from there.

-wellspring surge is instant cure, but ironheart is the one that keeps the DD alive long time but it is not instant. Just make sure the cleric is in healing range and think about the timing when wellspring or IH kicks in. Usually IH is used.

Most of the BH runs i go to, pple with the aoe dmgs just run and spam, including wizzy and archer. Its nice and fast and works if the DD spammers check if the cleric is near, and dont start when the healer is still 2miles away.

pff you know more than an archer and wiz that does this

BH run death order according to Daiz:

Riha -> Qui -> Daiz -> Riha -> Blos b:chuckleb:cute

somehow Riha will ress and die a 2nd time

b:surprised

Cirdan - Lost City · December 2009

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For the clerics not healing the real tank, it seems to only be an issue in FF random groups, as opposed to level 90+ BH random groups. I am making the hypothesis that clerics in the 80s are not used to the mass destruction that result from random groups going on a rampage toward their goal.

Usually for BHs, I run up to the mob so that I only deal half damage, in order to not steal aggro...

... and then I crit 4 times consecutively.

b:chuckle I put on my fists/claws and rank4 armor with -int gear and 3spark every ~20-25secs. that with mireb:shocked

Cirdan - Lost City · December 2009

Cirdan - Lost City wrote: »

b:chuckle I put on my fists/claws and rank4 armor with -int gear and 3spark every ~20-25secs. that with mireb:shocked

WOOT!!! Go Go Go 10k crits 2.5 times a secondb:laugh

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2009

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

pff you know more than an archer and wiz that does this

BH run death order according to Daiz:

Riha -> Qui -> Daiz -> Riha -> Blos b:chuckleb:cute

somehow Riha will ress and die a 2nd time

b:surprised

Now imagine if I had Astypoo in that bunch b:shocked

Black_lce - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Greetings, heroes.

When doing FF, I find myself often tanking the mobs, by virtue of dealing the most damage. I certainly don't mind this, but I do not know how much burden is placed upon the cleric that is healing me, with my Light Armor and 5.6k health.

More specifically, I sometimes wonder if I am jumping the gun a bit when I fire into a squad of mobs in FF. How do I know when the cleric is ready for the squad to engage a group of mobs? It seems excessive to ask at every group of mobs, "Ready?" Yet at the same time, I do not want to start too early and be accused of poor teamwork. Is there some sort of hint to indicate when the cleric is ready?

Also, are clerics unused to archers tanking (in general)? I often see Ironhearts stack on a full-health Blademaster or Barbarian who are not taking any damage while my HP bar is going down. Should I simply mention at the beginning of the FF run to everyone that I will be tanking? Or should I expect an 80+ cleric to be able to adapt to the situation as needed? Honest question: I don't know if targetting lag and cast lag are factors in this.

-Stacks usually go on bm/barbs cause they r pulling, and can't heal during a lure.

-the "Ready?" hlps, but seeing someone running at a mob, u should be able to know they need heals xP.

-i'm used to archers/DD's tanking mobs alot (Cae =P)

-honestly, i expect DD's to steal in a group of mobs, and barbs can't smap aoe agro skills to keep up w/ the dmg, thus 1 cleric can BB and other heals the archer/wiz (not DDing like a nub).

- and cast lag is a problem sometimes, but no problem w/ target lag as u can click their name in squad screen o.o

-also, once u get to about the 2nd, or 3rd, boss the cleric should be comfortable w/ the squad set up and know who to heal when.

FF: Archer and Cleric dynamics

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