Sage/Demon Info

SaberArturia - Dreamweaver
SaberArturia - Dreamweaver Posts: 64 Arc User
edited December 2009 in Blademaster
I know I'm a long way off from getting to this point, but could I get some information for comparing a Sage and Demon BM? Please take note that I don't give a flying hamster which is better, I just want information to compare them and make a decision based on my play style. If not discussed here, I'd like to be pointed to a thread where the comparison is made, preferably one that does NOT turn into a flame war against one or the other after the first page.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by SaberArturia - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Ikurei - Dreamweaver
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Here you go. Be aware that not everything on ecatomb is 100% correct about everything but it's still pretty accurate. Just don't make any decisions based off of one or two skills.
    Meh, saw a couple other people doing this so...
    "Time to kill a famous thread then." andracil
    "Banning a troll is the ultimate troll my good sirs" eatwithspoons
    "Be careful about all of the GIRLs (Guy in RL) that you meet." eatwithspoons
    "We are all trolls or else we wouldn't have so many posts under our names. Deal with it." Sevas - Heavens Tear
    "Necro hunting >:3
    Also, I'm in someone's sig!" andracil (Sorry, I had to.b:surrender)
    "Welcome to the forums. You will die here." Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    If you go spear, Sage is the way to go.

    All others are pretty much better in Demon.

    Aura is giving more pdef if u keep reusing it whenever the bonus wears off.
    Fists getting easier aspd (attackspeed) and higher damage output with their ultimate.
    Heavens Flame lasting 9 instead of 6 seconds.. and so on.

    Sage is most likely only good for stunning & spear skills bcuz they get an huge damage boost.
  • Ikurei - Dreamweaver
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    rikako wrote: »
    Aura is giving more pdef if u keep reusing it whenever the bonus wears off.

    Hm, a demon BM using golden bell on a sage BM who then uses alter marrow physical and then balance.b:shocked

    But who in their right mind would cast demon golden bell every 15 seconds?
    Meh, saw a couple other people doing this so...
    "Time to kill a famous thread then." andracil
    "Banning a troll is the ultimate troll my good sirs" eatwithspoons
    "Be careful about all of the GIRLs (Guy in RL) that you meet." eatwithspoons
    "We are all trolls or else we wouldn't have so many posts under our names. Deal with it." Sevas - Heavens Tear
    "Necro hunting >:3
    Also, I'm in someone's sig!" andracil (Sorry, I had to.b:surrender)
    "Welcome to the forums. You will die here." Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
  • SaberArturia - Dreamweaver
    SaberArturia - Dreamweaver Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Here you go. Be aware that not everything on ecatomb is 100% correct about everything but it's still pretty accurate. Just don't make any decisions based off of one or two skills.

    Thank you, that's very helpful. Though, I can see what you mean by not 100% accurate:
    Alter Marrow Magical (89)
    Sage version always increases magic defense increases by 180%.
    Demon version always reduces physical defense by 90%.

    Alter Marrow Physical (89)
    Sage version always increases magic defense increases by 180%.
    Demon version always reduces physical defense by 90%.

    But I do know what those should really be from the in-game descriptions.
    rikako wrote: »
    If you go spear, Sage is the way to go.

    All others are pretty much better in Demon.

    Aura is giving more pdef if u keep reusing it whenever the bonus wears off.
    Fists getting easier aspd (attackspeed) and higher damage output with their ultimate.
    Heavens Flame lasting 9 instead of 6 seconds.. and so on.

    Sage is most likely only good for stunning & spear skills bcuz they get an huge damage boost.

    I'm planning on being a sword BM. As far as that goes, it seems that Demon is an offensive choice while Sage is defensive (with the exception of Sword Mastery) with more skill spamming.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    But who in their right mind would cast demon golden bell every 15 seconds?

    ^ already seen it b:victory
  • Ikurei - Dreamweaver
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    rikako wrote: »
    ^ already seen it b:victory

    Demon golden bell + sage alter marrow physical + balance + HP charm = god mode?
    Meh, saw a couple other people doing this so...
    "Time to kill a famous thread then." andracil
    "Banning a troll is the ultimate troll my good sirs" eatwithspoons
    "Be careful about all of the GIRLs (Guy in RL) that you meet." eatwithspoons
    "We are all trolls or else we wouldn't have so many posts under our names. Deal with it." Sevas - Heavens Tear
    "Necro hunting >:3
    Also, I'm in someone's sig!" andracil (Sorry, I had to.b:surrender)
    "Welcome to the forums. You will die here." Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Till purge probably yes b:cry
  • Ikurei - Dreamweaver
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    rikako wrote: »
    Till purge probably yes b:cry

    Guess what I have?b:sin

    But alter marrow has a 10 second cooldown and golden bell has a 3 second cooldown so it'll be a very short moment of vulnerability.b:sad

    Edit: We're getting way off-topic. Do you mind OP?
    Meh, saw a couple other people doing this so...
    "Time to kill a famous thread then." andracil
    "Banning a troll is the ultimate troll my good sirs" eatwithspoons
    "Be careful about all of the GIRLs (Guy in RL) that you meet." eatwithspoons
    "We are all trolls or else we wouldn't have so many posts under our names. Deal with it." Sevas - Heavens Tear
    "Necro hunting >:3
    Also, I'm in someone's sig!" andracil (Sorry, I had to.b:surrender)
    "Welcome to the forums. You will die here." Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
  • Kisho_Seiko - Heavens Tear
    Kisho_Seiko - Heavens Tear Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    You've pretty much noticed it already. But Demon typically stresses PvP (short, high DPS fights) and in the case of BM it allows for different variations of stun-lock.

    Sage typically focuses on keeping your character full of Chi (such as how skills have a chance at costing no chi, or reduced chi) and typical PvE (longer fights but much less spike damage) experience.


    Granted, Sage and Demon will both enhance both PvE and PvP abilities, but they each emphasize a different one.
  • Melack - Harshlands
    Melack - Harshlands Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Muscle Alter Sutra (89)
    Only reduce 90% of physical defense from the equipment defense value.

    Marrow Alter Sutra (89)
    Only reduce 90% of magic defense from the equipment defense value.


    can someone explaing me this...? whats the difence 10%?
  • SaberArturia - Dreamweaver
    SaberArturia - Dreamweaver Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Melack - Harshlands wrote: »
    Muscle Alter Sutra (89)
    Only reduce 90% of physical defense from the equipment defense value.

    Marrow Alter Sutra (89)
    Only reduce 90% of magic defense from the equipment defense value.


    can someone explaing me this...? whats the difence 10%?

    What those do is basically reduce one defense type and dump it into the opposite type. So if 90% of your physical defense is reduced, your magic defense will increase by that amount.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    >.< sage gets a 1 per minute 50 chi spam skill

    demon gets a ton of % to gain chi abilities

    also demon + fists = all the chi you'll ever need from what i've seen

    their both good at making it

    sage conserves chi slightly better

    demon gets more out of the majority of its skills

    demon is amazing is short bursts

    sage is kinda the slow n steady choice in that it never really goes crazy but then again it dosent burn out as easily
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Melack - Harshlands
    Melack - Harshlands Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    SaberArturia - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What those do is basically reduce one defense type and dump it into the opposite type. So if 90% of your physical defense is reduced, your magic defense will increase by that amount.

    ^^
    i know what the marrows does...my question was what is the effect if you go demon? for instance i have mag marrow3 that is 50%, and phy marrow 6 that is like 70%...so my question is, the demon effect is only usefull if i have them lvl 10? that im asuming is 100% (with demon 90% = -10%) is that right?
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    level 10 alter magic reduces phys by 120%

    a fully buffed demon bm can runn around with hell marrow on and keep their unbuffed base phys + rediculous magical

    math ... use it

    >.<
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Melack - Harshlands
    Melack - Harshlands Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    a fully buffed demon bm can runn around with hell marrow on and keep their unbuffed base phys + rediculous magical
    Muscle Alter Sutra (89)
    Only reduce 90% of physical defense from the equipment defense value.


    i still dont get it...what im understanding is if at lvl 10 mag marrow reduce 120% when demon it will be just 90% b:surrender
  • AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear
    AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,413 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Melack - Harshlands wrote: »
    i still dont get it...what im understanding is if at lvl 10 mag marrow reduce 120% when demon it will be just 90% b:surrender

    Yes.......
    Retired

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Melack - Harshlands
    Melack - Harshlands Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yes.......

    so...
    a fully buffed demon bm can runn around with hell marrow on and keep their unbuffed base phys + rediculous magical

    this is wrong then
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    the marrows dont affect buffs

    aura of the golden bell

    cleric buffs

    and you'll still have 130% of your base def to play with

    do math b:shutup
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • ssilly
    ssilly Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    What abt the sage magical marrow then , Is it the same as da demon marrow ?
  • Ikurei - Dreamweaver
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    do math b:shutup
    Archer forums are that way.
    ssilly wrote: »
    What abt the sage magical marrow then , Is it the same as da demon marrow ?

    Nope, sage and demon skills are always a bit different so I assume sage alter marrow increases X by 180% and decreases Y by 120% (180%?b:shocked) while demon alter marrow increases X by 150% and decreases Y by 90%.
    Meh, saw a couple other people doing this so...
    "Time to kill a famous thread then." andracil
    "Banning a troll is the ultimate troll my good sirs" eatwithspoons
    "Be careful about all of the GIRLs (Guy in RL) that you meet." eatwithspoons
    "We are all trolls or else we wouldn't have so many posts under our names. Deal with it." Sevas - Heavens Tear
    "Necro hunting >:3
    Also, I'm in someone's sig!" andracil (Sorry, I had to.b:surrender)
    "Welcome to the forums. You will die here." Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
  • Hippie - Harshlands
    Hippie - Harshlands Posts: 515 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    from my point of view sage is fairly more useful in both TW, and pk. the only reason for going demon may be a PURE fist BM, since u gain more ats, longer and mroe reliable stuns and mroe dragon.

    however going demon only really works at endgame if u can afford really high refines.
    Nullum crimen sine lege.
  • ssilly
    ssilly Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    So getting the sage mag marrow worth it ?
    It decreases pdef by 120% b:cry
  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I'm fist/axe, and kind of torn on the decision. I understand the conventional wisdom is to go Demon, but I'm wondering if there's any Sage Fist users out there? Some of the sage skills look interesting for fist (10 second cooldown Shadowless Kick for example). Anyone go Sage and then regret it later?
  • Hippie - Harshlands
    Hippie - Harshlands Posts: 515 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    ssilly wrote: »
    So getting the sage mag marrow worth it ?
    It decreases pdef by 120% b:cry

    just couhnt with the bonus from sage bell, and in total u gain 30% mdef for 15% less pdef. good trade isnt it.

    capnk, fist is working perfectly with sage, i am sage, i use fists, i dont regret it at all.

    the common wisdom of going demon for bms is good is stuped :))
    Nullum crimen sine lege.
  • Ikurei - Dreamweaver
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »
    the common wisdom of going demon for bms is better is stuped :))

    Fixed it for you. For almost all the classes going either sage or demon are both good choices. Both have their good and bad points so neither path is actually better. Except with archers (technically, sage isn't bad for archers but demon is just better for what archers do best (crit) and demon quickshot is b:dirty (I'm not even an archer)).b:surrender
    Meh, saw a couple other people doing this so...
    "Time to kill a famous thread then." andracil
    "Banning a troll is the ultimate troll my good sirs" eatwithspoons
    "Be careful about all of the GIRLs (Guy in RL) that you meet." eatwithspoons
    "We are all trolls or else we wouldn't have so many posts under our names. Deal with it." Sevas - Heavens Tear
    "Necro hunting >:3
    Also, I'm in someone's sig!" andracil (Sorry, I had to.b:surrender)
    "Welcome to the forums. You will die here." Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
  • ssilly
    ssilly Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »
    just couhnt with the bonus from sage bell, and in total u gain 30% mdef for 15% less pdef. good trade isnt it.

    capnk, fist is working perfectly with sage, i am sage, i use fists, i dont regret it at all.

    the common wisdom of going demon for bms is good is stuped :))

    Yes.. thx for the reply i will get sage bell first & then the mag marrow b:thanks
  • _Bahamut_ - Heavens Tear
    _Bahamut_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I don't think is possible to say what is better,more correct will be say what is better for you.
    I don't have the lvl needed to try but to,in base of the info found on ecatomb, sage is better for pve and (maybe) TW,demon suite more for 1v1 pvp.
    Sage allow you to last more and spam more skills,demon focus on closing the match as soon as you can.
    It's all to your gameplay.
    As Capnk i wonder too is there is any sage fist user,just to know another point of view.

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