Wizards or Archers better dps?

Ponza - Lost City wrote: »

Anyway why are we even talking about fist BM's? LOL. My thread was about archers vs mages, I just wanted to see what people thought about each class' potential dps. b:surrender

Because Wafflechan mentioned the high attack rate of fists and how an Archer could maximize their attack speed through use of -Interval gear and Demon Quickshot, then used the statistics of a fist BM to attempt to back up the notion that Archers with Fists have higher DPS than a Wiz.

Thus the topic imploded into a debate over whether Fist BMs were capable of higher DPS than Wizards, followed by a random debate of who was the better PvPer.

...I think. I lost track somewhere in the jumble. b:surrender

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Because Wafflechan mentioned the high attack rate of fists and how an Archer could maximize their attack speed through use of -Interval gear and Demon Quickshot, then used the statistics of a fist BM to attempt to back up the notion that Archers with Fists have higher DPS than a Wiz.

Thus the topic imploded into a debate over whether Fist BMs were capable of higher DPS than Wizards, followed by a random debate of who was the better PvPer.

...I think. I lost track somewhere in the jumble. b:surrender

partially correct, my brain has a tendency to skip from one topic to another randomly. i didnt try to defend archers with fists, i was merely making a point 5 attacks/second was possible on them.

i then switched gears while it was on my mind, that fist BMs dps > wizard. then it turned into a wizards vs me mosh pit.

Sounds like Haiz hasn't seen a good fist BM to me, honestly. My guild leader (Lv 100 Fist/Axe BM) has no problem stealing agro from barbs and hercs even on HH bosses, lol. Demon Cyclone Heel with lunar claws and -interval gear along with triple spark and the fact that he dumped most points in STR mean he can pretty much out-DPS most people. And he doesn't use Light Armor and his HP isn't bad.


Archer vs Wizard is very dependant on gear, but most of the time it'll be easier for archers to reach a good DPS than wizards. Wizards need a lot of good channeling gear/refines to be able to do what an archer can do.

Haiz - Lost City wrote: »

GASP! One of the first things I said.

Like I also said,



Did you just say he steals agro when he triple sparks?

I've always known that faster attacks work much better in HH because of slingshots. It's also why I spam gush/pyro. On even level mobs though it is much less significant.

Doesn't matter where we are lol, he **** agro off everything on everything. Cult bosses, HH, FBs, lunar, etc.


And yeah triple spark helps with stealing/keeping agro... I don't see your point. Fist BMs can triple spark every 25 secs or so, meaning you're triple sparked about half the time. But even with just Cyclone Heel it's enough to out-DD most things.

Haiz - Lost City wrote: »

Every single number you have given out is made up? All you are doing is scenarios. Just so you know, I have a fist BM in my guild, 9x, who has the berserk fists. The only way they really stand a chance at killing me is if they spark. Otherwise their damage is too low to bypass a charm. When they spark though I usually stand no chance at surviving at all.

I do 20k sparked with gush, its not made up. A rank 8 weapon with a decent refine does do 50% more damage than me. 50% channeling gear is not made up either, like I have already said multiple times there is a person in my own guild with that much. Unlike you who has to cross over to another server.

I'll do even more, and spell out to you the exact gear they have to reach 59%. 2 CV rings = 12%. -6% necklace and a -6% + -3% belt = 27%. Lunar cape -6% and love up and down -1% = 34%. 99HH gold wrist -6% = 40%. Rank 6 weapon with 2 -3% stones in them is 10 + 3 + 3 which is 16% from the weapon making it 56% channeling. Throw in rank armor and you have -59% channeling. Hell for rich people, you can throw in even more channeling stones and achieve instant cast on a hell spark.

Does that sound made up? Rank 6 weapon hits very hard as well, unlike fists.

great minds think alike

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's damage per hit, not damage per second. A totally different ball game. This topic is discussing damage produced during a prolonged fight. =_=

wizards dont really focus on DPS unless they are demon then thats a different story -.-

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

i dont think you read anything kristoph or miss_tika posted :P...

I'm talking about Haiz saying you are making up scenarios, thats what I +1 to. I still think wiz is about DPH, which i said in my post. Wiz dont focus on DPS unless they are demon which increases DPS. You are really annoying...

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5489252&postcount=97
stop being contradictory!

you just said wizards dont spike and do constant damage (dps) in that post, but here you are saying theyre about dph now??

god make up your mind!

DPH and DPS are two different things.
ugh you are going to make me explain and blah >.>

DPH= Damge Per Hit = the amount of damage in a hit. Which isnt spike. Spike = giant jump in damage or DPS. I associate spike with DPS. Which is why archers have higher DPS because they have higher spike.

I'm tooo lazy to type anymore, i gotta do FC or BH >.>

EDIT:
Wizards do constant damage, thats not spike.
Time to do FC, baibai

wizard is all about the spike. they dont deal a 'constant' damage, they have a gap between spells. theyre aiming for the biggest number possible in one hit, DPH, and thats the exact definition of a spike.

i said:
dps = constant damage that rises over time, there is no gap between it (except occasional misses, but thats irrelevent.) crit = big damage = spike as well, but archers dont deal crits 100% of the time, hence why we dps.

and you/haiz have a habit of not reading what people say, or reading it incorrectly, so dont put words in my mouth.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

wizard is all about the spike. they dont deal a 'constant' damage, they have a gap between spells. theyre aiming for the biggest number possible in one hit, DPH, and thats the exact definition of a spike.

i said:
dps = constant damage that rises over time, there is no gap between it (except occasional misses, but thats irrelevent.) crit = big damage = spike as well, but archers dont deal crits 100% of the time, hence why we dps.

and you wizards have a habit of not reading what i say correctly, so dont put words in my mouth.

All classes have DPS, and how high it is depends on damage per hit, hits per second, critrate, accuracy, and so on. Wizards don't aim for the highest damage in one hit either, they choose between spike (crit) or damage output (channeling/matk).

we're the best class to kill barbs. low DPS = barb not killed. the fact that our best spells have long channel but higher crits compared to archers doesn't mean that's the right way.

Definition: Spike Damage, or a damage spike, is a massive amount of damage dealt to a single target over a very short period of time.

skills like Take Aim.

perfect example of a technique used to kill robies on an archer. stunning arrow-> (praying for a crit) demon take aim = spike to try and 2 shot them.

no not really o_O;

one of our proud to call top archers, asterelle has done a 150k+ crit with a just plain normal shot in the same scenario as haiz's rebirth pic. thats not a skill with a % mod and bonus damage, just a plain normal shot :P.

take note his gear is just average compared to most LC archers too.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

geez guys why u still arguing about it

Because some topics are endless debates b:laugh

I wouldn't want to intude though, do proceed b:chuckle

Edit: Well, I lied. One thing about fist archers/bms that I haven't read is that you don't constantly gain chi to do so much dmg with hell spark if the target isn't sitting still. Just something to consider and use to attack each other b:laugh

Here's a rough example:

Sage Wizard with -62% chan and 11% crit, 516 magic
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c7d1bf596abcfcb0
matk of 9640-12357
base m-atk of 1811

pyro (matk+base+3620) becomes 1.37s for 15071-17788
gush (matk+base+3390) becomes 1.38s for 14841-17558
stone rain (matk+2*base+4804) becomes 2.008s for 18066-20783
total damage in 4.758s becomes 47978-56129 = 52053.5 average
this is now 10940.2 adps
factor in 11% crit = 12143.6 adps

Demon Archer with 1.05second/attack (rate: 1.05^-1) and 38% crit, 494 dex
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0289517337466899
patk of 9562-13118

use the same time frame of the Sage Wizard chain of 4.758s
normal hits is 9106.6* - 12493.3* dps, where *is recurring
this is now 10800 adps
total damage becomes 43329.5-59443.1 = 51386.3 average
factor in 38% crit = 14904 adps

even with -62% channel and 11% crit using the pyro-gush-SR combo, the Sage Wizard is losing to a Demon Archer that is normal attacking of ~2760 adps. Put another way, the archer is doing ~19.3% more adps than that Sage Wizard combo (provided with no misses).

Feel free to argue the numbers with different spells and sparks etc for the Wizard's case. Heck, use a Demon Wizard if people want for the extra -chan.

edit: I used Haiz' set up of stacking -chan in his previous post for the Sage Wizard build. I stand by Archer = highest aDPS, Wizard = highest aDPH and that Wizard>Archer in PvP EG (or relatively close to EG).

Eh, I also forgot masteries (since they're passives and permanent) but I'm sure people can factor that in themselves.

See post 97.

Mosabi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

See when there is a debate arising about mage vs any other class we end up being told no ur not the best at it.......

So in the archers point of view archers do the most damage and have more hp and phy deff to survive....
So Ms.Chan are you telling us that our class is useless and its very existence is uncalled for since in your openion archers and fist BMs DD better than a mage will ever be able to????
ofc we will fight this notion to the end so telling us we just spent the last year of our lives heating burned bread will make us pissed off to no end.

even IF there is a proof we simply wont accept it cuz we have strength in out convictions that wizards are the highest DDs unmatched by any other class (we should atleast be able to, being the squishiest of all classes u know >.>)

Anyways my point is this topic is futile and might as well get locked cuz either way if all of us gonna continue having sticks up our asses this topic wont end...

what a completely absurd post. both archers and BMs have way more dps, thats the name of the thread. wizards have relatively slow dps, and focus more on the damage per hit.

So in the archers point of view archers do the most damage and have more hp and phy deff to survive....
So Ms.Chan are you telling us that our class is useless and its very existence is uncalled for since in your openion archers and fist BMs DD better than a mage will ever be able to????

absolute bullcrap, you just put words in peoples mouths that were never even said. no one called wizards useless, no one said archers have more pdef/hp than wizards. learn to read, sesame street can help you there.

wizards are excellent in pvp, but when it comes to monster fighting in an end game scene, you can be out damaged by two other classes. wake up and smell the coffee!