are BM useful

_Crones_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i cant add any refines or gems because the application i used does not have those feature as i said it was about which means an estimate and most HA veno's ive seen in game use a bm weapon like dual swords so i used it in my example. If they keep up with weapons like a bm or barb they cant have much magic or they suffer vitality.

Go stop making theories and take a look at the veno section. Heavy/Robe is a very viable and workable build. Refines and sharding deal with HP in the same way as archers do, while they'd also have similar MAG to an LA veno in order to stay up-to-date on weapon.

Also, part of why they'd use something like an axe is because they'd have the str/dex for it and if they felt like doing any melee in human for whatever reason, they could use the axes or he like to compensate for the fact that a regular magic weapon lacks phys attack.

Click here for an example of just how possible it is. (Yes, I could have made some better gear choices for more freedom in stat points but I was lazy and tired while doing this so sue me)

Edit: See also, melee in human form with the same build as above.

And remember, this char has a high enough mag to easily swap to a pair of robes (or even combine some arcane and HA pieces) at any time they choose to boost mdef since their mag def is lacking when in full HA.

NUUUUUUUUUUUUU ZOMBIE THREADb:shocked

(necro)

b:bye

My first char was a bm (called wr in that time). It has his pros and cons... but many times I felt left out in PvE. Of course they were needed as lurers for zen, you could tank some fb's if there was no barb, you can tank also BH69 bosses and many players are still afraid to do it with BM now when barb arent that many, rebirth and what not. Rarely I got asked for TT, I was there just to fill a free spot or they helped me to get mats. Now you dont see that many players grinding, especially at higher lvls, and most of the aoe spots are empty. The others like your stuns, dragons and party buff... other than that they dont ask you to DD. Even if many players say that you are not a DD as a mage/archer, still a cleric does more damage and a magmite also does more damage than you (not even counting herc with reflect).
Needless to say they are good in pvp

_Crones_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heavy Armor veno??? what does this mean?

Veno + Heavy Armor = FAIL!!!!

*note using lv80

if you are a heavy armor veno its mean if you keep up with your armor and weapon such as axes sword or the other bm weapons and keep up with your magic for your magic weapons as well you will lack in the hp/vitality area. H.A. Veno's are useless with hercs in tt's because they need a party full of venoes because there magic may not be where it need to be or cannot withstand aoe's from bosses because of hp shortage. Ive seen veno's with bm weapons and barely enough magic for the damn lv21 mirage sword. That is a disgrace to the veno kind and shall be shunned(hopefully) and added to my BlackList of veno's not to use in tt's.

I used the character simulator on ecatomb and this is what i have.
Armor is basic bm armor for 80's Proud plate and Cuisses of Sea captain and regular tt80 boots and leggings. Necklace is tt80 neckie who cares which one...belt is pirate kings seal,rings are misties and cape is tauren chieften, and the helm is helmet of pirate. At this rate with the veno using the tt80 dual swords they can only afford to have 132 magic which is not even enough for a tt60 ancient arbor and this is without having any added vit so the base vit is still 5. They at this moment with no soul gems or buffs have a max of 2286 hp and 3850 mp. With a maxed Barb buff at lv10 its hp would increase to about 2971.8 hp. So yeah that is about 2 hits from drummie in 1-2 or 1-3 maybe 4 or 5 with BB up. please feel free to elaborate if you think i am wrong but the final conclusion = H.A. venoes are fail.

for the first bolded part, one of my chars have enough mag to equip a weapon around her lvl. http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=52d94445c80e8f34 (unbuffed veno))
still no boots and better refines but i think its decent enough

for the second bolded part, im sorry but some arcane with lots of HP (i.e. full vit) doesnt have that much defence to get a few hits. drum in 1-2 (squad mode/solo DD)start with 100ish damage at 50% and around 800 damage at the end... still a lot to tick my charm. You are one of the players that believe only certain HP numbers can survive

Overall BMs are basically just a "backup" class in squads. They can't tank as well as a barb/veno's pet, they can't deal as much damage as a arch/wiz/veno, and they can't heal like a cleric. They're there so that if one person in the squad screws up they can fill in for them (except maybe a cleric). They also just provide overall support, they can take on a couple mobs while the barb/veno's pet takes the rest, the can deal a good amount of damage to help kill the mobs quicker. They can also fill in for each class (except the cleric). Yes, they can't tank like a barb/veno's pet and in some cases they may just not be able to tank at the same level as a barb, but usually they can pretty much get the job done. The can very easily fill in for any of the DDs because they dont do as much damage, but as long as you have a good tank and cleric, you actually dont need that much damage being delt, it just kills the mobs quicker. So overall, BMs are really necessary in squads but they are a very useful asset.

As many people have said before, BMs are very good at grinding, especially using aoe if they are an axe build. I would say they grow levels the fastest and therefore will eventually be more useful than any class (except cleric).

we save the squishies

we debuff bosses like no other

we can out dps archers with -interval and fists

we can aoe like the other classes ony wish they could

and ya we carry a nice phys def buff and can fill almost any role set for us

jack of all trades masters of mass slaughter...i love being a bmb:pleased

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I must disagree. Venos and barbs have the most useful debuffs.

...yet the vast majority use axes.

...but most are too poor to make these skills high lvl.

People don't mention how important is a BM for FF squads. Golden Bell saves squishies for real.

!. heavens flame glacial spike and myriad sword stance...what kind of supercrack barb trumps those?

2. most bm's dont go multipath till lvl 80+

3. because axes are an easy weapon to pick up have an extra stun and 3 aoe's. Also many bm's tend to shy from the low vit builds

4. ya....bell is great

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

there's not much like myriad sword stance out there but the problem is the same as glacial: cooldown. i'm not preaching barbs are better for this. no class is able to keep anything's attack decreased constantly. the only difference is that other classes don't need sparks to do it. barbs can do it with no chi usage (30% phys attack decrease; aoe; lasts 10s; 15s cooldown) and venos can have threaten pet skill (36% phys attack decrease; single target; lasts 15s; 30s cooldown).

Demon Ironwood Scarab - Physical Defense drops to 0, on any target. My pet alone gains 500-1k damage in PvE situations.

Sage Ironwood Scarab - Debuffs Physical Defense by 40%.

Howl - Pet Skill: Debuffs Magic Defense by 36%

Peirce - Pet Skill: Debuffs Physical Defense by 36%

Threaten - Pet Skill: Debuffs Physical Attack by 36%

Myriad Rainbow - (both) Cause Fire/Poison DoT and/or drop Magic/Physical Defense of the target to 0

Demon Amplify Damage - Target takes 25% more damage over 26 seconds

Sage Amplify Damage - Target takes 30% more damage over 20 seconds


You neglected to mention the Cleric Phys/Mag debuffs. Although, I will mention I hate it when my debuffs get over-written by another veno or someone casting the same debuff I have. My breaks > any other debuff. Pay attention when your veno is going through their debuffs.

Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Demon Ironwood Scarab - Physical Defense drops to 0, on any target. My pet alone gains 500-1k damage in PvE situations.

Sage Ironwood Scarab - Debuffs Physical Defense by 40%.

Howl - Pet Skill: Debuffs Magic Defense by 36%

Peirce - Pet Skill: Debuffs Physical Defense by 36%

Threaten - Pet Skill: Debuffs Physical Attack by 36%

Myriad Rainbow - (both) Cause Fire/Poison DoT and/or drop Magic/Physical Defense of the target to 0

Demon Amplify Damage - Target takes 25% more damage over 26 seconds

Sage Amplify Damage - Target takes 30% more damage over 20 seconds


You neglected to mention the Cleric Phys/Mag debuffs. Although, I will mention I hate it when my debuffs get over-written by another veno or someone casting the same debuff I have. My breaks > any other debuff. Pay attention when your veno is going through their debuffs.

yes and with the exeption of demon ironwood scarab (nice skill)

and myriad rainbow (amazing but CCOMPLETLY random)

none of thse debuffs trump the maxed 2 spark bm ones (wich can be spamed ever 30 seconds easy with fists)

heavens flame 6 seconds of 100% damage on everything it hits 9 seconds when maxed

glacial spike 50% reduction on both magic and phys resists

myriad sword stance 50% attack reduction on phys and maq

fist ulti...ya its **** vs anyting but a phys marrowed bm or heavy veno T.T

also the bm debuffs are aoe's and come wth some rather nasty damage on them so yes you can stack lots of little debuffs (demon ironwood exempted)
but a bm using 1 ulti every 30 seconds will still do as much or more and a fister with - iterval can use multiple debuffs in that time frame

not saying the other classes cant debuff or are bad at it just saying that untill psycics come out bm has the strongest pve debuffs in our ultimates

for pvp...bleeds (suprisingly effective) the only 100% amp in game slows freezes, seals, and bolt of tyreseous....and oh ya stuns

cleric debuffs also affect the cleric and are 20% when maxed i beleive (im probobly wrong on this one)

barb debuffs are based of equipment value for the most part making them wonderfull in pvp but less so in pve

...your amp is basicly a long lasting extreme poison usefull but not the OMGness of a party actually timing their nukes for that HF

a bm hitting over 100k will do so with a 2 spark or 3x sparked BOLT amped by HF and zerk crited this is just assuming bm debuffs

all that said i love veno/barb/cleric status effects simply cause yall dont have to burn all your sparks to spam them

i dont wanna read all the thread just beacause im lazy.

at my lvl (not a vit bm) i tank gaurnob and pole, quartermaster, and all the fb bosses 19 - 69, what i usually do is:
1.get a squad
2.they QQ about not having a barb
3.break squad get some barb buffs
4.get back to the squad with 7K hp and tank.
(most of the ppl are like wow didnt know that u can hold agro or survive that boss, then i find them in a couple of days i get in n they say "no worrys we dont need a barb")

is not that i want to tank but barbs are hard to get sometimes. in now that im doing TTs "high" bhs i know more my role, run back and stun that mob that the wiz/archer hit, and yeah then need my HF to take a boss faster b:victory. its like saying that ppl dont need venos i have done tons of bhs, bosses, w/o venos, "they are only good for pulling" i can do that 2...but they do it better so...every class is good and important for a squad

thats so true xD

The only thing we lack is good mag defb:cry
we are bad asses at anything else.b:victory
if you have a good build and have skills.
everyone wants you in a squad with them ^^