veno build

2

Comments

  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Hisuna - Sanctuary wrote: »
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=47f2ab222407925c
    slightly changed your equipment (3 pieces) http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ee6d8f41633cb86f
  • Hisuna - Sanctuary
    Hisuna - Sanctuary Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    kenlee wrote: »
    slightly changed your equipment (3 pieces) http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ee6d8f41633cb86f

    the damage is higher and p.def too, but m.def went down. I wish I could implement my rings into that thing. you switched the armor a bit, pants and boots, that's what happened to the defense. My gear certainly isn't done though, I just wanted to show as close to my current build as possible. Thank you though, you made the damage even closer. :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The family is a haven in a heartless world.
    Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    yep m.def went down, also HP went up.
    for my HA/AA build i use belt/necklace with mdef resist and here it is (http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=66a8871d7e37752e better mdef). i use much cheaper items with mostly fail crafts (lower stats) but are around my lvl for this char
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    to edit the effects of a ring, you take the name/* number of the ring, and equip it, then press the picture of the ring, lastly press the change button. you can modify the rings there.

    i went and gave my veno creation an aquadash too:
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=efea8498880e033c

    of course you've owned her defenses, thats the bonus of HA. LA has the bonus of higher crit/nuke damage, making it great for pvp. with demon wood mastery, 2x 2% crit rings (ie TT90 gold or lunar's 3% even) getting to 20% crit isnt hard on an LA demon veno.

    quite personally its a **** shoot for op, if you want better damage, stay LA, if you want better defense go HA/AA
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Miyane - Lost City
    Miyane - Lost City Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    well except for the number of people wanting me to stay LA, i have decided togo HA. Mostly too because i hate people killing me so quik without a chance to run. >.< and since i play in FF most of the time its probably for the best to go HA, and ive seen better arguments for HA then LA. except for the crit with LA wich is so unstable that i never rely on it.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    well to sum it all up, you either get extreme defense, or way better m.atk/pet heals and average defense. otherwise not much of a diff
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    to edit the effects of a ring, you take the name/* number of the ring, and equip it, then press the picture of the ring, lastly press the change button. you can modify the rings there.

    i went and gave my veno creation an aquadash too:
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=efea8498880e033c

    of course you've owned her defenses, thats the bonus of HA. LA has the bonus of higher crit/nuke damage, making it great for pvp. with demon wood mastery, 2x 2% crit rings (ie TT90 gold or lunar's 3% even) getting to 20% crit isnt hard on an LA demon veno.

    quite personally its a **** shoot for op, if you want better damage, stay LA, if you want better defense go HA/AA
    ok i used your build and put some G7 citrine shards
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=842841bf380e2c34

    the reason i used shards is because next i made AA build with garnets

    so i made an arcane veno with same weapon with almost same magic atk
    in this case i use same number of G7 stone but garnet and citrine only for helmet, also put 100 points in vit
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2adbd78af5c9697b

    so whats the difference between, LA and AA?
    AA has 2k p.def, LA has 2.7k p.def
    AA has 7k m.def, LA has 4.4k m.def
    AA has 4.1k HP, LA has 3.3k HP

    of course LA has slightly more pdef but worth going LA for only 700ish pdef and a bit more crits and sacrifice HP and m.def for that?
  • Hisuna - Sanctuary
    Hisuna - Sanctuary Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    kenlee wrote: »
    ok i used your build and put some G7 citrine shards
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=842841bf380e2c34

    the reason i used shards is because next i made AA build with garnets

    so i made an arcane veno with same weapon with almost same magic atk
    in this case i use same number of G7 stone but garnet and citrine only for helmet, also put 100 points in vit
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2adbd78af5c9697b

    so whats the difference between, LA and AA?
    AA has 2k p.def, LA has 2.7k p.def
    AA has 7k m.def, LA has 4.4k m.def
    AA has 4.1k HP, LA has 3.3k HP

    of course LA has slightly more pdef but worth going LA for only 700ish pdef and a bit more crits and sacrifice HP and m.def for that?

    you forgot to put the two perfect sapphires he/she put in the weapon in their build. If you add those the arcane build attack should go up quite a bit.

    here it is with two perfect sapphires....sneaky sneaky.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c46575cecdf8a9c2
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The family is a haven in a heartless world.
    Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    kenlee wrote: »
    ok i used your build and put some G7 citrine shards
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=842841bf380e2c34

    the reason i used shards is because next i made AA build with garnets

    so i made an arcane veno with same weapon with almost same magic atk
    in this case i use same number of G7 stone but garnet and citrine only for helmet, also put 100 points in vit
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2adbd78af5c9697b

    so whats the difference between, LA and AA?
    AA has 2k p.def, LA has 2.7k p.def
    AA has 7k m.def, LA has 4.4k m.def
    AA has 4.1k HP, LA has 3.3k HP

    of course LA has slightly more pdef but worth going LA for only 700ish pdef and a bit more crits and sacrifice HP and m.def for that?
    there isnt much a dif O_o; i use a vit arcane veno, instead of aquadash i use a wraith conqueror though.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ea6c7b074c69e411
    my veno, roughly. its got pretty much better rounded def than LA, and quite a nice hp/mp/m.atk pool.

    quite frankly i think it all depends on play style
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    kenlee wrote: »
    ok i used your build and put some G7 citrine shards
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=842841bf380e2c34

    the reason i used shards is because next i made AA build with garnets

    so i made an arcane veno with same weapon with almost same magic atk
    in this case i use same number of G7 stone but garnet and citrine only for helmet, also put 100 points in vit
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2adbd78af5c9697b

    so whats the difference between, LA and AA?
    AA has 2k p.def, LA has 2.7k p.def
    AA has 7k m.def, LA has 4.4k m.def
    AA has 4.1k HP, LA has 3.3k HP

    of course LA has slightly more pdef but worth going LA for only 700ish pdef and a bit more crits and sacrifice HP and m.def for that?

    So, Arcane is 4100 hp, 35% physical, 66% magic
    Light is 3300 hp, 42% physical, 55% magic

    Meaning, arcane has 24.24% more hp, takes 12% more physical, and 20% less magic.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Those stats are nice and all but you are forgetting 2 major things:

    1) LA armour gives more hp per refine.

    2) LA users wear helmets, not hats. Helmets give a huge HP bonus.

    This is more realistic "near endgame" gear:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=34d06cd205add90a

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d2fcf573148e359c

    HP differance here is just 156hp, and LA gets 7% more phys res. You get better evasion, accuracy and phys atk as bonuses, not to mention 5% more crit.

    Arcane? A bit more dmg, tiny bit more hp and a lot more mgk resistance.

    Something close to my current build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5790b9d52afc6811
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Except, the problem with your setup there is you're giving them generic ornaments rather than building them to do something. If you're going light you're going to build yourself to be flexible, not to mention being a pvp build gear with crit % on it would be more appealing. If you're going arcane, you're either building yourself to survive (vit arcane) or to instantly kill anything that makes the mistake of moving around you (pure arcane), in which case defensive ornaments or channeling ornaments (not to mention rank gear) would hold more value.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    What setup are you talking about?

    I just showed the difference refine and putting on a helmet would make, using the same builds someone posted earlier. LA venos don't wear hats...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Hisuna - Sanctuary
    Hisuna - Sanctuary Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    axt57 wrote: »
    Those stats are nice and all but you are forgetting 2 major things:

    1) LA armour gives more hp per refine.

    2) LA users wear helmets, not hats. Helmets give a huge HP bonus.

    This is more realistic "near endgame" gear:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=34d06cd205add90a

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d2fcf573148e359c
    HP differance here is just 156hp, and LA gets 7% more phys res. You get better evasion, accuracy and phys atk as bonuses, not to mention 5% more crit.

    Arcane? A bit more dmg, tiny bit more hp and a lot more mgk resistance.

    Something close to my current build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5790b9d52afc6811


    Once again, in that comparison the LA has 2 perfect sapphire shards in the weapon and the arcane calc has no shards in the weapon.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The family is a haven in a heartless world.
    Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Hisuna - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Once again, in that comparison the LA has 2 perfect sapphire shards in the weapon and the arcane calc has no shards in the weapon.

    True; I thought the weapons were the same and didn't touch them.

    However it must be noted that socketing an aquadash isn't easy... grade 12 item.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0babe9bf9f6f5dec

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d2fcf573148e359c

    If my maths is correct the arcane veno with this setup would deal about 16,000 more damage then LA every 100 hits she does. This at the cost of 7% phys res and more spike damage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary
    XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary Posts: 683 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    this will be my weak la build for lvl 90 with modest refines and gears since i dont use cash shop. I get more def but less attk than what has been on this thread.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5bbbdf89f8840a0e
    Q - How to win on Perfect World?
    A - Throw money at it.
  • Shifong - Heavens Tear
    Shifong - Heavens Tear Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=36912e4dc3e6ef2a
    This resembles my build. Had to give the 1* ring the 6 dex i get from the robe, and both vit and magic is a little higher in my real build (68 vit, 307 mag).

    It has a low magic attack. If i wanted a high magic attack i would have gone arcane of course. But the little crit i get does help a lot. I don't crit as high as arcane for example, but i can crit like crazy and i do steal aggro a lot from others in TT's and such. And i clearly went for pdef/hp with a tiny bit of crit.

    Wish i had the coins for sign of antiquity b:sad
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retsuko - Shifong
    Karmapwi.com
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    axt57 wrote: »
    If my maths is correct the arcane veno with this setup would deal about 16,000 more damage then LA every 100 hits she does. This at the cost of 7% phys res and more spike damage.
    Average magic attack for those two builds work out to 6453.5 vs. 7020. Factor in criticals and average base magic damage is 6841 vs 7090. So the Arcane build on average does 3.6% more damage.

    There's a roughly 7% difference in damage reduction, but the important number is damage transmitted, not damage reduced. At those pdef levels, the Arcane build takes about 13.6% more damage against physical damage. (You could calculate a similar thing for magic damage, but I won't because the Light build has the option to wear all Arcane if she wishes, making their mdef the same.)

    4% loss in damage dealt for 13% reduction in damage taken, plus an increase in spike damage. Unless you're talking about extremes (e.g. barely being able to spam heal a boss), i'd say this comparison actually favors the light build. Course the reduction in phys damage taken does come at a cost of an increase in magic damage taken.
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Well, if you're wanting to compare end game:
    Light unbuffed
    Light buffed

    Vit arcane unbuffed
    Vit arcane buffed

    Pure arcane unbuffed
    Pure arcane buffed

    It looks to me, that if you're after defense, vit arcane is ultimately the way to go (could always compare at other gear levels too, to see if it holds true). 25.7% better physical resist, 7.3% better magic resist (11.1% against water) using hp/damage taken and has 16.5% better magic attack, which is 16.8% damage and 17.7% healing after crits/channeling are taken into account (used unbuffed stats).

    Edit: Just noticed light has 4 magic too much, change it to vit if you want it doesn't change the comparisons much, slightly closes the defense gap and slightly increases the offense gap. Actually, you could change the cloak on the LA to an anniversary pack one too... vit arcane still comes out better off (and if you're curious, pure arcane came out with 30% more damage/healing than vit arcane, I didn't compare defense but it would be quite a bit worse... can't have everything).
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Well, if you're wanting to compare end game:
    Light unbuffed
    Light buffed

    Vit arcane unbuffed
    Vit arcane buffed

    Pure arcane unbuffed
    Pure arcane buffed

    It looks to me, that if you're after defense, vit arcane is ultimately the way to go (could always compare at other gear levels too, to see if it holds true). 25.7% better physical resist, 7.3% better magic resist (11.1% against water) using hp/damage taken and has 16.5% better magic attack, which is 16.8% damage and 17.7% healing after crits/channeling are taken into account (used unbuffed stats).

    Edit: Just noticed light has 4 magic too much, change it to vit if you want it doesn't change the comparisons much, slightly closes the defense gap and slightly increases the offense gap. Actually, you could change the cloak on the LA to an anniversary pack one too... vit arcane still comes out better off (and if you're curious, pure arcane came out with 30% more damage/healing than vit arcane, I didn't compare defense but it would be quite a bit worse... can't have everything).

    Both your arcane vit venos have cleric buffs b:surrender

    Also, no LA veno would go for that helm.. too much str. You get a bigger hp bonus by using the helm of aqua because you can place more points into vit... will result you having more then 9100 hp; pretty hardcore.

    A slightly better unbuffed LA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=56f000a2ecc3f78d
    Real unbuffed vit arcane: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bf7ba836617c1c95

    Sage barb buff: 12151 hp, nearly 1k more then the vit arcane with same buff.

    Now that the cleric buff is gone, notice the identical (!!!) magic damage, but LA gets the crits.

    The vit arcane build still wins in defence, however the difference is no where near as dramatic as in your post. And personally I would like 1k more hp then 5% more phys res (with the already huge damage reduction in pvp, 5% would make a very small difference - 1K hp though...).

    However I would not wear those ornaments myself.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Edited the previous post with new links. The buffs on vit arcane unbuffed are fixed, and I changed the helm to an Ence's Scar with the same shards/refine. Additionally, I adjusted the light magic which was slightly too high, and took the spare strength points and gave them to vit. The overall result is the gap closed significantly. Dex is still higher than necessary for light by something like 8 points, but that's for the additional crit point.

    The stats now are 9005 hp, 55% physical taken, 32% magic taken and 7031-7108 magic for light with 8400 hp, 51% physical taken, 29% magic taken, and 7031-7108 magic for vit arcane. The vit arcane still comes out ahead in casting by 6.2% due to having higher channeling (2 piece set bonus, chest, robe, neck) 0.6% at taking physical damage, and 2.9% at taking magical damage. Those gaps are considerably closer and makes light look more viable for PvE, especially considering it would be the stronger PvP build with only a small hit to PvE, but vit arcane still comes out the winner.

    Edit: One more ninja edit.

    If you want to look at buffed stats, it changes to arcane being behind light in physical defense by 0.44% while remaining ahead in magic defense by 2.52% and in damage by 8.31% (includes RB).
  • Shifong - Heavens Tear
    Shifong - Heavens Tear Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Well, if you're wanting to compare end game:
    Light unbuffed
    Light buffed

    Vit arcane unbuffed
    Vit arcane buffed

    Pure arcane unbuffed
    Pure arcane buffed

    So i decided to take your light armor buffed build and altered it a bit to my own liking, and ended up with this: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9972a6d04c92c7db

    At the cost of losing a big amount of HP (1500) and 5% magic defense, i managed to get pdef from 61% to 74% reduction. So it becomes 74% and 69% which is a nice balance. Magic attack remained a bit the same and physical attack went up quite a bit, even though i removed all the unnecessary strength you got into the build for a single equipment piece (helmet).
    HP is important, but pdef is also important to a Light Armor veno because the Fox form skill increases only pdef and not mdef or HP. Also the increase of phys atk is nice for LA since LA sometimes likes to fight in fox form.

    Another interesting thing i found out when comparing your buffed light armor version with mine is that you don't even get close to the 11053 pdef of my version when yours is in sage fox form. In sage fox form yours is only 9733, while mine gets to 17995 pdef.
    I guess arcane can get this pdef as well with the right gears?

    Didn't want to prove anything, just fun to toy with builds and see a certain build changed completely with a couple changes. b:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retsuko - Shifong
    Karmapwi.com
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    but vit arcane still comes out the winner

    I disagree.

    LA is far superior in PvP and only slightly worse in PvE. Endgame (especially with such equips) you will mostly PvP; therefor I see no way how Arcane could possibly be the winner here.

    Furthermore, you can easily switch LA cube thingy for a channel ornament without significantly affecting the build, considering a PvE situation.

    Aaaaand since we are talking endgame, just in case you get into a boss fight and you need more magic defence; simply put on your robe set you so thoughtfully brought with you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    If you like to PvP, you'll mostly PvP, the same could be said for any gear level. You're giving up, up to 8.31% higher damage output in exchange for a 5.31% higher chance to get a spike. The only time that's ever going to help is if you're fighting another player and trying to get through their charm cooldown.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The only time that's ever going to help is if you're fighting another player and trying to get through their charm cooldown.

    Which is every single time you fight someone in a TW. At least in a serious one. Its also the only way to kill barbs. And stun crazy BMs. And archers and wizards (quick enough before they get you with their silly DD skills).
    If you like to PvP, you'll mostly PvP, the same could be said for any gear level. You're giving up, up to 8.31% higher damage output in exchange for a 5.31% higher chance to get a spike.

    You don't get such gear and don't PvP. It would be a complete waste.

    Also, if you are posting numbers then give your full calculations for them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    even talking about end game, not many will have that kind of gear and not to say +8... at least for average players
    i was LA for like 75 lvls, it wasnt bad in pvp even if crits didnt helped me much but now i tend to belive what one of the best veno on my server said, LA is a fail build.. and its kinda true, untill you get this and that you don get much from LA build.
  • Hisuna - Sanctuary
    Hisuna - Sanctuary Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    kenlee wrote: »
    even talking about end game, not many will have that kind of gear and not to say +8... at least for average players
    i was LA for like 75 lvls, it wasnt bad in pvp even if crits didnt helped me much but now i tend to belive what one of the best veno on my server said, LA is a fail build.. and its kinda true, untill you get this and that you don get much from LA build.

    So...I did a bit of a restat on my character because I got ahold of a wing trophy and got glorious robe: torment. I'm not going to say too much about this, because I don't particularly want to give away what I've done, but I will say the following:

    My weapon is Aquadash+4, it has one Sapphire Gem in it.
    My armor is only refined to +1, except the sleeves which are +2.
    My ornaments are not refined beyond +3. The rings are both +2.

    As you can see, I have full cleric buffs. It certainly doesn't compare to the level 99 build above, but I'm thinking it's pretty good.

    That all being said, here is what I managed at 90....

    Hisuna
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The family is a haven in a heartless world.
    Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    that looks like a pure mag build, with pdef gems + buffs, am i correct :P?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Hisuna - Sanctuary
    Hisuna - Sanctuary Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    that looks like a pure mag build, with pdef gems + buffs, am i correct :P?

    Not quite lol. But as I said I don't want to reveal too much. Later levels will tell me if I'm really onto something or if it's all standard and easily been done before.

    I have p.def shards in my hat and cape, but not in my armor.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The family is a haven in a heartless world.
    Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.
  • Reikara - Heavens Tear
    Reikara - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,321 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Crits are incredibly unreliable. If you want crits make an archer. (To whoever said their reason was for LA venomancer.)

    LA and HA venos attack are the same, only differ from the weapons and refine levels they use. If you choose to restat to HA, there's no way in the world you can keep your vit points. You would have to rid of them to be able to use both AA and HA.

    I've played vit arcane, LA and HA/AA. I'm never switching back to LA or AA. LA I see as pointless, venomancers have no need for so much dex, and the str is too little for a decent fox form build. AA is a great build, but I found it far too squishy myself. I'm used to and enjoy playing as a part time tank.

    I survive party wipes, I can survive holding off bosses for party members to escape, I survive more than long enough in aoe madness to debuff my TW targets, I survive accidental aggroes, I survive many situations. I rarley die in PvE :-D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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