are BM useful

truth is bms cant tank like barbs or DD like archers, but who gives a damn?

ive never had a problem with tanking any bosses or a lack in the damage output department, ill ask for a 2nd cleric for some bosses or TTs since i dont have the same massive hp of a barb but that doesnt mean i CANT tank.

learn to play ur class dont pay attention to what someone thinks about a class being bad

I was out with my Faction we had Barb with us.I just went to open the door on TT3-1 the faction classes were me cleric,veno and bm.the Barb had to go so that left the 3 of us.I am not sure what the boss name was but was big with big huge vice lookig thing on it hand.The veno had herc and tanking it just fine as well as the bm.

Herc did die and it was the Bm keeping the boss away from us and he did great jop considering the time it tok ot get herc revived and healed up agian.I didn't even need to heal the BM.


I would say BMs have there place in the game probably a litte faster at doing damage than a Barb especially in TW.I wouldn't say BMs don't have their place in the game.

Read this topic Are Bms truly unnecessary? I thought the same thing, they helped clear some of my frustration with my bm, i am close to getting out of the 'dreaded' level 7x area, so i am about to see how much easier things get.

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've had bad experiences with BMs myself.

This jerk BM in Gamma runs kept stealing aggro from the barb over and over on the bosses. Not only that; they self-purified, didn't require cleric healing, and kept amping damage on recharge over and over. And this is for every freaking boss at the end. Completely useless, and they made it so we didn't spend longer in there.

Not only that, but another time this same BM kept getting aggro from entire waves after barb would die from taking to long gathering. It happened 4 times and each time that stupid BM grabbed aggro so it didn't drop on cleric or wizard, and refused to do the decent thing and die. No, instead it would run in and out of fight for charm to recharge, use Heavens and then Myriad later, and manage to kill them without the barb while not dropping aggro onto the squishies.

I'll tell you now, I'll never group with that BM again if I can ever help it.

No way! That BM just doesn't know anything...such a worthless piece of trash b:chuckle

Axe BM's are questionably useful. They are more or less a weak Barb who brings a good Buff. They can pin down multiple monsters easier than a Barb though which can save a party real fast if the unexpected happens (which it often does.).

However, one MAJOR oversight is the completely inane idea that Axe Masters are all that there is to Blade Masters.

Sword/Pole Masters have the ability to deal with Ranged Mobs a lot better than a Barb could ever hope to. They can both engage multiple monsters as well and the Pole Master can Bleed & Severely Weaken an opponent. They are also excellent at grabbing monsters who get by the main tank and not allowing them to kill your party thanks to ranged skills. These Ranged Tanks can be a really helpful group to have around and can really be a Cleric or Caster's best friend as they can help put the final nail in the coffin of a monster that got pulled by the Cleric without having to stand right on top of it.

Fist Masters can deal more damage per second than any Wizard or Archer if they know their build and get a good weapon. While the other two may deal massive VOLLEY damage their consistent damage is never going to be as high even with DoTs which they rarely even use. The Fist Master is the second most qualified to destroy enemy groups, rarely misses (and Crits OFTEN), gets missed a lot making him a better tank, can afford a piece of light armor here or there to boost magic def, can use a bow, and is not going to lose Aggro on a Boss if given even the slightest chance to begin pounding it. So while they are more of a Solo class of BM as they rarely need anyone's help they can be great for Boss Slaughtering as well.

While it is TRUE that Barbs have the HP to withstand some of the toughest things and that many BM's may not be able to quite handle the same Boss at the same level the BM in time WILL be able to deal with the monster, can handle magic monsters FAR better than a Barb, and can dish out a lot more damage if they are the right build allowing you to kill a Boss sometime this week.


That said, a good Fox Veno could almost replace BM's considering we have just as much if not more Phys Def, Plenty of Accuracy, Plenty of Damage, More Mag Def, and the ability to hold down a LOT of Monsters between some AoE and our Pet. The one spot where we cannot match them though is that BM's can hold Aggro far better than we can. Our moves seem to generate negative Aggro (LOL) and so anyone can generally steal from us, though not our pet so often.


As for Archers/Wizards...They have veeeery limited uses in Boss killing. The only time I have seen them useful is if the boss is willing to attack with a weak magical attack that they can tank. Otherwise they are mostly just a pain, pulling every monster or having to wait until it is nearly dead before opening up which means you would have been better off with ANY other class (especially another Cleric who can dish it out just as well AND heal/revive/buff you). Their real use is in AoE grinding (mostly for the Wizard) and in solo grinding for money (more the Archer here).

For clarity, this is what I originally posted:

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

Are BMs useful to other people in a squad? BMs are probably the 4th most useful class (Behind Veno, Cleric, Barb, in no order). They don't do as much damage as either Archers or Wizards, but since those are interchangeable classes in many squads, it hardly matters, and BMs offer a little more utility to a party in the way of stuns, and maybe tanking. Either way, if you are going to simply act as a DD in a given squad (Which as a BM, is most of the time), don't expect to be given priority.

Then Michael_dark, you quote this part:

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

BMs are probably the 4th most useful class (Behind Veno, Cleric, Barb, in no order).

And proceed to say this:

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

LOL...There is always a spot in a squad for a BM or two. Venos, Archers, Clerics. Oh, they love my dragon and it's Amp. The fact I know how to use my skills, that I've maxed them, and know when to Amp...and I generally save the squishies.

Ever do a 20/20/20 with 3 BMs? I did one the other day, no cleric, done in 30 minutes. Try that with a Veno leading, pulling one at a time. My 20/20/20 in comparison, done with a full squad, veno leading took over 2 hours. Lulz

You "LOL" and "LULZ" a couple of times, in a comment directed at me. This leads me to conclude that you disagree with my statement to the point that you find it laughable (Correct me if I'm wrong). Yet, you don't directly claim to disagree with me, or suggest why you would. In fact, you imply that I don't know how to use my character. So I will ask directly this time, for clarity, since I seem to have misunderstood you: Do you disagree with the idea that BMs are probably the 4th most useful class in a squad, and if so, then why?

I ask because you post this:

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Did I ever say that BMs are more useful than any other class? No, each have their place. I respect all the classes for what they do...maybe something you should try doing. LOL

This still avoids the question. Why did you find my original comment funny? What did you disagree with? Are you trying to say that we shouldn't try to rank the classes? If so, then why? In my opinion, which I gave earlier, which the OP on this thread was asking about, relative to the other classes, BMs rank 4th in usefulness. Where do they rank to you?

Additionally, you assume too much. I wasn't aware that I was 'disrespecting' BMs everywhere, by suggesting that other classes are typically more useful in squads, I certainly didn't mean to b:chuckle. Any BMs who have had their feelings or pride hurt by my opinion, I apologize.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

No, I wouldn't do a 20/20/20 with 3 level 70 BMs, and I wouldn't do with with 3 level 70 Venos either. The former would be a party wipe and the latter would be too long to even bother with.

I did it with 3 Level 70 Venos my first time, it only took a little over an hour. That wasn't really my point though, I was simply suggesting that when you are 20 Levels higher than a monster, it really doesn't matter what class you are playing anyways, so it is a poor example of "useful" to suggest that 3 Level 90 BMs can clear out 20/20/20 in half an hour. A level 40 Veno can beat Kun Kun down with a Magic Sword, but I don't go calling them a melee class.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

And yeah, I actually do get a lot of "Hey I need a BM for..." FB, HH, BH, bosses...AoE grinding, you name it.

I get some requests for grinding, and Delta, but I've never heard "Hey I need a BM for TT or BH or Bosses" (Unless they got no one). The only reason someone would want a BM to tank a Boss is if they can't find a good Barb.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

A BM is far more useful in HH than a Barb unless you need to tank Forshura or just want the buffs. Then again, an Archer is even more desirable.

ORLY? This may be the case in TT 3-1, and the few Herc tankable TTs, but the majority of them are not (At least not at the appropriate level you would normally do them).

We can agree to disagree on where the class ranks in general squad usefulness (IMO 4th), for whatever reasons. But spare me the "Lulz", they don't prove anything.

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

For clarity, this is what I originally posted:



Then Michael_dark, you quote this part:



And proceed to say this:



You "LOL" and "LULZ" a couple of times, in a comment directed at me. This leads me to conclude that you disagree with my statement to the point that you find it laughable (Correct me if I'm wrong). Yet, you don't directly claim to disagree with me, or suggest why you would. In fact, you imply that I don't know how to use my character. So I will ask directly this time, for clarity, since I seem to have misunderstood you: Do you disagree with the idea that BMs are probably the 4th most useful class in a squad, and if so, then why?

I ask because you post this:



This still avoids the question. Why did you find my original comment funny? What did you disagree with? Are you trying to say that we shouldn't try to rank the classes? If so, then why? In my opinion, which I gave earlier, which the OP on this thread was asking about, relative to the other classes, BMs rank 4th in usefulness. Where do they rank to you?

Additionally, you assume too much. I wasn't aware that I was 'disrespecting' BMs everywhere, by suggesting that other classes are typically more useful in squads, I certainly didn't mean to b:chuckle. Any BMs who have had their feelings or pride hurt by my opinion, I apologize.



I did it with 3 Level 70 Venos my first time, it only took a little over an hour. That wasn't really my point though, I was simply suggesting that when you are 20 Levels higher than a monster, it really doesn't matter what class you are playing anyways, so it is a poor example of "useful" to suggest that 3 Level 90 BMs can clear out 20/20/20 in half an hour. A level 40 Veno can beat Kun Kun down with a Magic Sword, but I don't go calling them a melee class.




I get some requests for grinding, and Delta, but I've never heard "Hey I need a BM for TT or BH or Bosses" (Unless they got no one). The only reason someone would want a BM to tank a Boss is if they can't find a good Barb.



ORLY? This may be the case in TT 3-1, and the few Herc tankable TTs, but the majority of them are not (At least not at the appropriate level you would normally do them).

We can agree to disagree on where the class ranks in general squad usefulness (IMO 4th), for whatever reasons. But spare me the "Lulz", they don't prove anything.

Hey Falls. I don't think you can rank any class in usefulness like that. Different classes have different purposes. I can tank a magic boss better than a barb can in most cases. Yeah I have lower hp, but I have higher mag def and can cancel AoE and debuff the boss. I also have more dex than the majority of barbs and can switch out to light armor if it's necessary.

Sounds to me like you're kind of dissing BM's b:shutup Especially where bosses and instances are concerned.

=/ I know what I can do. So don't tell me what I can't or what I'm not needed for. I have cleric friends that prefer me over a barb as a tank.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What are these "pure magic" bosses that don't melee at close range that you keep talking about?

Hercule Trioc, fb39

that's one example off the top of my head

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

K, him out of all the fb from 19-79 xD.

that's what he wants you to think b:quiet

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Oh... My... God...

o.O

Argue in circles much? lol And, excuse me for not responding to all of your points. I personally don't see a need to respond to them all, whether I disagree with one or some other. I merely chose to respond to that which compels me to directly reply.

Yes, my lol and lulz are laughing at what you say, and your opinion does not equate to proof, it's just an opinion.

As for furbeasts in HH? Almost ALL of the bosses that can be tanked by a herc are better off having a BM DD than a barb. Please name one boss *other* than Forshura/Wurlord that requires a barb? Sure they're obviously great to have around, which I mention because it seems to me that you wish me to point out every obvious statement that I assume need not be said. *sigh*

BTW, who is the best tank for Belial? Not a Barb. That would be an archer...Barbs and BMs are only required for their buffs.

Excuse me if you're offended or confused that I don't respond to each of your comments, I don't see a need, but if you really must have one, I can respond legibly and coherently... at least as much one can on minimal sleep without caffeine. :P

Ancient Evil: Vengeance? Cosmo? Drum Boss can not be tanked by an appropriately leveled Herc, neither can Soul Tentacle dude.

I argue in circles how? Please, elaborate instead of just laying claims.

"Yes, my lol and lulz are laughing at what you say, and your opinion does not equate to proof, it's just an opinion."

That is exactly my point. That is poor form, have some respect. While I disagree with your opinion, I don't insult you.

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Hey Falls. I don't think you can rank any class in usefulness like that. Different classes have different purposes. I can tank a magic boss better than a barb can in most cases. Yeah I have lower hp, but I have higher mag def and can cancel AoE and debuff the boss. I also have more dex than the majority of barbs and can switch out to light armor if it's necessary.

Sounds to me like you're kind of dissing BM's b:shutup Especially where bosses and instances are concerned.

=/ I know what I can do. So don't tell me what I can't or what I'm not needed for. I have cleric friends that prefer me over a barb as a tank.

Actually, I can rank classes like that, because I just did. We can argue the details of the usefulness of my ranking, but the OP just asked the question "Are BMs useful?" and I answered it as best as I was willing to.

I also haven't told anyone what they can and cannot do. That you take it personally, is not my fault. If you want to +12 all your gear and be the best tank and best DD at the same time on the server, then have at it. The sky's the limit, but on average, I've seen that just doesn't happen.

hey guys i read in forums that bm are not need/useful i just want to get think stright

Running both characters, they both work. The BM is much more fun in solo and can pair up with just about anyone else for 2 man grinding. The AOE stun and damage skills (augmented by genie skills) do nice damage against weaker mobs and seem awfully handy in squad runs. I can easily tank any appropriate level boss if 1] I have a HP charm and 2] everyone gives me at least one minute to gain agro before hitting the boss. Without the charms you just have to be a bit more carefull. I can DD a boss without pulling agro from the barb. However, mobs die a lot faster with archers and spellcasters hiding behind you killing the poor thing. The squishies do a lot more damage, but die much more easily. It is good to have a barb and/or a BM between them and the mob, especially inside the instances where there is less room to run and they can not fly away from danger.

The barb can solo, but it is slow going. You also almost never die. The two AOE agro skills and single one-on-one (in four legged form) usually keep the mobs entertained while the others kill. It is kind of boring to stand there and get chewed on by mobs waiting for other people to kill them, and occasionally grabbing one that breaks off and tries to munch on a squishy. Most squishies prefer having a barb (meat shield) around.

The reason there are fewer calls for a BM in party is that there are so many of them. The clerics and barbs are harder to find when building a party. I have to say that my most fun Bounty Hunter run had no barb and 3 axe wielding BladeMasters. We could run up to a bunch of mobs, take turns using AOE stun and running amok with the 12 AOE damage skills we could roll off between us. It was hilarious. We needed no pullers.

If you always want to be in a party, go barb. If you want to go out and solo now and then, go Blade. After you become familiar with the game you may decide you really want to be one of the other classes, but BM and Barb seem to be the easiest to learn the game with. I find the BM more versatile and fun, the Barb more desired when squad building.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm curious, what about a heavy veno? Since my girlfriend got her Love: Up and Down, she can now wear lvl. 60 armour and wield her TT60 weapon. From what I've seen so far she can pretty much obliterate anybody 1-on-1 who's not 10 or so levels higher than her (I think she's up to lvl. 64 now?). And that's with her Qingfu.

Heavy Armor veno??? what does this mean?

Veno + Heavy Armor = FAIL!!!!

*note using lv80

if you are a heavy armor veno its mean if you keep up with your armor and weapon such as axes sword or the other bm weapons and keep up with your magic for your magic weapons as well you will lack in the hp/vitality area. H.A. Veno's are useless with hercs in tt's because they need a party full of venoes because there magic may not be where it need to be or cannot withstand aoe's from bosses because of hp shortage. Ive seen veno's with bm weapons and barely enough magic for the damn lv21 mirage sword. That is a disgrace to the veno kind and shall be shunned(hopefully) and added to my BlackList of veno's not to use in tt's.

I used the character simulator on ecatomb and this is what i have.
Armor is basic bm armor for 80's Proud plate and Cuisses of Sea captain and regular tt80 boots and leggings. Necklace is tt80 neckie who cares which one...belt is pirate kings seal,rings are misties and cape is tauren chieften, and the helm is helmet of pirate. At this rate with the veno using the tt80 dual swords they can only afford to have 132 magic which is not even enough for a tt60 ancient arbor and this is without having any added vit so the base vit is still 5. They at this moment with no soul gems or buffs have a max of 2286 hp and 3850 mp. With a maxed Barb buff at lv10 its hp would increase to about 2971.8 hp. So yeah that is about 2 hits from drummie in 1-2 or 1-3 maybe 4 or 5 with BB up. please feel free to elaborate if you think i am wrong but the final conclusion = H.A. venoes are fail.

_Crones_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heavy Armor veno??? what does this mean?

Veno + Heavy Armor = FAIL!!!!

*note using lv80

if you are a heavy armor veno its mean if you keep up with your armor and weapon such as axes sword or the other bm weapons and keep up with your magic for your magic weapons as well you will lack in the hp/vitality area. H.A. Veno's are useless with hercs in tt's because they need a party full of venoes because there magic may not be where it need to be or cannot withstand aoe's from bosses because of hp shortage. Ive seen veno's with bm weapons and barely enough magic for the damn lv21 mirage sword. That is a disgrace to the veno kind and shall be shunned(hopefully) and added to my BlackList of veno's not to use in tt's.

I used the character simulator on ecatomb and this is what i have.
Armor is basic bm armor for 80's Proud plate and Cuisses of Sea captain and regular tt80 boots and leggings. Necklace is tt80 neckie who cares which one...belt is pirate kings seal,rings are misties and cape is tauren chieften, and the helm is helmet of pirate. At this rate with the veno using the tt80 dual swords they can only afford to have 132 magic which is not even enough for a tt60 ancient arbor and this is without having any added vit so the base vit is still 5. They at this moment with no soul gems or buffs have a max of 2286 hp and 3850 mp. With a maxed Barb buff at lv10 its hp would increase to about 2971.8 hp. So yeah that is about 2 hits from drummie in 1-2 or 1-3 maybe 4 or 5 with BB up. please feel free to elaborate if you think i am wrong but the final conclusion = H.A. venoes are fail.

dont bump threads that are ages old. also make note, you didnt add in any refines, nor did you do the build properly my genius friend, take a look at reikara's guide, and dont disrespect a legitimate build.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

dont bump threads that are ages old. also make note, you didnt add in any refines, nor did you do the build properly my genius friend, take a look at reikara's guide, and dont disrespect a legitimate build.

i cant add any refines or gems because the application i used does not have those feature as i said it was about which means an estimate and most HA veno's ive seen in game use a bm weapon like dual swords so i used it in my example. If they keep up with weapons like a bm or barb they cant have much magic or they suffer vitality.

Yeah, definitely a necro. The discussion is good though, so rather than close it I'm just going to send it to the blademaster forum.