Aggro Guide Needed!

Bartack - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Now here is something we NEED stickied on these forums, an aggro guide! Like, how does the level of flesh ream affect its aggro? (and how come halfway through a world boss, if a lvl 30 barb reams it one time, he pulls aggro?) Does ream always put your aggro ahead of others? Does really roar really reset all aggro and give you a set amount like i have heard before? How effective are devour and penetrate? Does leveling them increase aggro generated or does damage effect them? Is untamed wrath like roar? Is alpha male like roar? Someone with the know-how please make a guide for us uninformed nubs b:cry We already know how to spam flesh ream, add a few devours in between, and roar only if you need to grab more than 1 mob at a time. Now we want to know WHY and HOW it works! so we can be all that we can be!

Is there a thread like this I missed? If so, please link it! b:victory

SchwarzeWolf - Lost City · November 2009

Bartack - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now here is something we NEED stickied on these forums, an aggro guide! Like, how does the level of flesh ream affect its aggro? (and how come halfway through a world boss, if a lvl 30 barb reams it one time, he pulls aggro?) Does ream always put your aggro ahead of others? Does really roar really reset all aggro and give you a set amount like i have heard before? How effective are devour and penetrate? Does leveling them increase aggro generated or does damage effect them? Is untamed wrath like roar? Is alpha male like roar? Someone with the know-how please make a guide for us uninformed nubs b:cry We already know how to spam flesh ream, add a few devours in between, and roar only if you need to grab more than 1 mob at a time. Now we want to know WHY and HOW it works! so we can be all that we can be!

Is there a thread like this I missed? If so, please link it! b:victory

sadly the only people who know these answers are the devs and the people that have the source code for their program.

but i will say, that i only use roar once (normally after the archer STs the boss) and then i just bite spam (with beasital rage used whenever i can)

AND IF YOU HAVE A WF IN YOUR PT MAKE SURE THEY BRAMBLE YOU, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH THIS HELPS TO HOLD AGGRO

Bartack - Heavens Tear · November 2009

ok, so, not as technical a guide as i would like b:cry but,how about at least some more high level tips and experience. That bit on brambles, for example, was great.
I can start with what i know works.

Flesh Ream (FR): I know FR will steal aggro at any level from anyone or thing. I have tanked Cenminator, had its hp down to 30%, and had a 30's barb come by and hit it with his 30's FR. Cenminator turned, killed the poor barb, and came right back to me. Of all the aggro skills I use, FR holds aggro the best and longest. Stacking/spamming FR will hold aggro most of the time from most other chars. Leveling FR also really seems to make a big difference in the amount of aggro generated.

Roar: Roar will also steal aggro at any level from anyone. It does not hold aggro, however, nearly as well as FR. I know leveling roar increases its ability to hold aggro, though its never really good at holding aggro ever. I have seen evidence that roar resets aggro, but this is not conclusive. During a boss fight long ago, tanking barb roared, stopped attacking (dc'ed) archer took aggro, died, hit me next,died, cleric continued to heal barb, boss killed cleric, then went for the tanking barb. I was 30 lvls lower than tank, so after archer, boss should have gone after him, not me or the cleric. Maybe aggro was reset? Anyway, I have never roared at a boss after that, unless adds are near.

Devour/Penetrate Armor: I assume these skills work in similar ways in terms of aggro. I have heard that they only generate aggro if mob is attacking you when you use it, but I have seen a lvl 60's barb rip aggro from me (also lvl 60's at the time) when I was tanking a boss in fb 51. I had been using lvl 10 FR on and off ( not a lot of DD going on, so I was a bit lazy) and barb kept spamming lvl 10 Penetrate Armor. Anyway, he stole aggro, I used FR, and after 1 more Penetrate he had aggro back again. So Im pretty sure he was generating decent aggro. I know that when tanking now, I use Devour as often as I can between FR's, and my aggro holding abilities have increased greatly. Wouldnt use it alone, but it makes a good combo.

might add some more to this. Please share your own experience and maybe someone will make this into something useful! b:victory

SombraTalon - Heavens Tear · November 2009

That all seems to match up with what I just posted over in the sage/demon aggro thread I started before.

Just spamming ream seems to hold _okay_, but spamming flesh interlaced with devour especially, but anything else that does damage (surf, sunder, even base attacks), seems to really stick the aggro a lot better than just ream, despite people usually just suggesting flesh ream.

I have all the tiger skills except sunder maxed though, so part of it could be that. Part (like I said in the other thread) could just be that I'm deluding myself and it was all luck of the draw.

Either way, great idea for a thread and I hope some more higher level sorts come give opinions from their experiences/tactics.

Nevaglar - Sanctuary · November 2009

However u use ur aggro skills, do remember to tell venos in party to put their herc's bash off, as it is a strong aggro taker, and archers should carry weaker weapons such as fists or swords in case of bosses that need not changing targets (such as Vipenalt in TT1-2 and 1-3) Most of the time, it only takes 2 sec of losing aggro to **** the partyb:shocked

Stonecutter - Harshlands · November 2009

my tactic on all bosses and its working fine atm is spamming FR and beastial rage, then in between FR i cast Roar, frighten, surf impact, in no order too, just to build chi faster, then when i got my 2 sparks pop off invoke spirit(20 sec of -90% damage) and that lets the cleric move the brick off his Iron hart button and use his 2 spark skills/ debuff or rest if he/she running out of mana

now i can't say any thing on the devour skill as i really never use it unless i accidentally hit the skill,
but as to bramble, i love it's like having a 3rd arm,the only dam problem is that on long TT runs you got to remind venos to buff you every 10 min

there have been times when iv been building chi on them FB pillars with out my weapon equipped and forgetting to re-equip, tanking with no problems and realised after that there in my bag, this is telling me that your damage out put has a little less of a impact on holding agro and more to do with the lvl's of your skills and how often you use them

im also finding that wizards and Archers only pull agro from me in 1 of 2 ways

there 6+lvl's higher than me and they "go all out" ( no problems with them "goin all out" with in 5 lvl's of my current lvl )

and the 1 that really get on my proverbial is that some really special Wiz/EA's dont know the assist atk command after i just agro'd and roar'd a group and they decide it be a good ida to AOE yes AOE them all.. so that's when the genie skill alpha male comes in handy but with it im finding that the "agro hold" on mobs is not very strong at all, maby 1 or 2 hits from any class will lose the agro hold on you so be carful

im lvl 75 pure vit at the time of this reply and going by how iv played and seen, so im not sure how things will turn out in the 8X 9X, so ill be keepin a close eye on this thread b:thanks

Bartack - Heavens Tear · November 2009

SombraTalon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That all seems to match up with what I just posted over in the sage/demon aggro thread I started before.

Just spamming ream seems to hold _okay_, but spamming flesh interlaced with devour especially, but anything else that does damage (surf, sunder, even base attacks), seems to really stick the aggro a lot better than just ream, despite people usually just suggesting flesh ream.

I have all the tiger skills except sunder maxed though, so part of it could be that. Part (like I said in the other thread) could just be that I'm deluding myself and it was all luck of the draw.

Either way, great idea for a thread and I hope some more higher level sorts come give opinions from their experiences/tactics.

It was your thread that really inspired me to start this one SombraTalon. Keep Posting people! Please! If anything, I will compile what I get in this thread and try to compose an Aggro Guide to get stickied. Heck, throw in your tanking tips too, maybe we can add them in the guide.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · November 2009

This is very informative. My thanx for the information.

I would like to add something. A lot of tanks and DDs do not realize that, due to the 75% damage reduction against Twilight Temple bosses, it is much easier for skill-based-aggro tanks to keep aggro.

So, while it is possible for a Barbarian to hold aggro with a DD 10 levels higher in a Twilight Temple run, the same combination may not work in an FB / BH run.

I apologize if this is common and repeated knowledge within this forum. My experience in the game seems to indicate this is not a commonly recognized fact.

EDIT: It seems the first few posts on this thread contradicts what I am saying, with regards to resetting aggro. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Esteven - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Im not sure about the roar reseting the aggro skills...
when i tanked polearm at lvl 78 with 2 lvl 87 archers and a lvl 87wiz and 86 veno i didnt lose aggro spamming FR Devour AND Roar when i could... (and mid way wiz crit 36k, so not sure if using roar mid way resets)

lvl of skills atm 10 FR 9 dev 9 roar

1st hits to take aggro go as followed:
FR, roar, dev, beast rage, FR then reg skills, i have got it down that i can dev after 3-4 FRs so stacking the added aggro as i can. And i do roar when ever i can and i do not tend to lose aggro, only rare occasions when i act lazy... Or a herc bashes. When a pet steals i think aggro gets reset so make sure venos in your party turn off aggro skills on pets.

Bramble is an added bonus. A large way to increase hate is rate of attack... sure wizs and archer can get high crits, but if you are doing the same amount of damage in 3-4 hits as the 1 its harder for them to pull. That is why raising your other Tiger skills is good(more damage).

But what do I know i might just be another nub barbb:surrender

Hazardus - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Yep in TT runs, the reduced damge helps. The only thing there that has a chance of pulling aggro is the veno's pet.

If a pet bashes or uses any other aggro skill you just cant hold aggro.

Wizzies damage is done over a relatively longer time, so you can fleshream adequately to keep aggro from a wiz. But its the archers high crits with the high rate of attack that can overwhelm fleshream.

Roar does reset aggro, but it also does draw some aggro to you. As long as you are a same level or a bit higher than DDs, it wont matter. But if the DDs are higher than you, you will have your wrk cut out for you.
I once had a archer crit on stygean just after I roared and he immediately swung around and one shot him. Thats when I stopped using roar at bosses, unless I have adds to pull.

Bartack - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Keep it up guys, these are GREAT posts. Thank you Elena about the TT damage reduction factor in regards to aggro, I hadn't actually thought about that. Same applies to World Bosses I would assume. I have heard, however, that venos have an easier time holding bosses in TT due to pets not getting the damage reduction. I suppose this could make keeping aggro from pet more difficult, but has been a non-factor for me so far.

I think roar will require some constructive testing before anything conclusive can be considered. Might have to find a good archer, cleric and fist BM to go suicidal with me. Here is my Test:

#1 Get a high HP low damage mini-boss (early wraith ploy?), un-equip axes and tank little lazy with cleric and BM. A fist BM will, over time, generate massive aggro with its super fast attacks. This should make it tricky to keep aggro. After the BM takes aggro a few times, try a level 10 roar, and see if maintaining aggro is any different. If its not, roar probably did not reset aggro. If it is easier to hold aggro for little while, before BM can accumulate more damage based aggro, then roar probably did reset aggro

#2 Use same boss, but use the cleric and the archer. Use your axes this time, and have archer use a good single-hit damage weapon like crossbow. Tank like crazy, and build up all the aggro u can ever want before archer attacks. Use Roar, and have archer immediately open with strong attacks. If aggro pulls off easy, could be because roar reset the aggro. Might have to try a few times with/without roar to see if results differ.

I will try to work on these tests. If other would give it a try also, or if anyone else has stories related to roar and aggro resetting, please post away!

Thank you, and keep you tips and observations coming! b:victory

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Bartack - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have heard, however, that venos have an easier time holding bosses in TT due to pets not getting the damage reduction. I suppose this could make keeping aggro from pet more difficult, but has been a non-factor for me so far.

There are two parts to that:

1) As you mention, pets do not get damage reduction.
2) If the pet reflects damage back to the boss, that damage is a massive amount. As a veno with a herc how much damage gets reflected back when tanking a TT boss.

That's why when a Herc DDs (such as against Drum boss or Soulbanisher), the veno waits until the Barbarian to go first, so that the reflection damage never occurs. If the herc goes in first, the reflection damage occurs, and it becomes (somewhat?) difficult for the Barbarian to acquire aggro.

Aggro Guide Needed!

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