Moron Barbs

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver · November 2009

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

Tokens won't be around forever, and they weren't around before. For right now it's cheap, but what about after...? And when the token supply is completely gone?

At this rate, I'm beginning to doubt that will be a problem in our PWI lifetime. Also, thrifty Clerics ALWAYS keep an eye out for sales on the stuff and hoard as much as they can while it's cheap. That's what I and several Clerics I know did. And I'm sure there are lots that thought the same way.

Like during the Jolly Jones event that came before this most recent one. The Shards, Oracles, Fruit and such were nice...but 300 coins for 3k MP was soooooooooooo much nicer. b:dirty

During the first run, when people were selling tokens for <20k each, you could get a charm's worth of Herbs for < 200k if you kept an eye out. And even now, 240-300k (assuming you buy tokens for about 20-25kish) for about a million MP is WAY more bang for the buck than spending 1.6-2mil for 100k less MP. Just stock up whenever you can while you can.

Belkas - Lost City · November 2009

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I guess this should have a second part question:

Of all the people posting here, how many know both the physical damage formula, and the effects of -interval coupled with speed buffs. If no one knows all of this, they really shouldn't be posting, honestly.

With lvl 70 mold fists, I will steal aggro a time or two if I don't stop attacking now and then. Now, the walking waste would say it's your job as DD to stop attacking if you would steal aggro. Now the thing is, they are walking waste because they can't think of more things than one at a time.

Tanking is a matter of aggro management. This is from skills generating aggro, or damage. The combination of the two is how well a tank can manage aggro.

Now, if with lvl 70 claws I steal aggro, then the arguement of other DDs stealing aggro (archer/wizard) is pure garbage. Because I have already established a damage barrier the tank is capable of holding with sub-rate gear. So no more stupid in that direction.

Tanking is also about one thing: surviving. Even crappy aggro management can succeed if the tank can survive. And I have tanked a few BH69s with low lvl 8X single clerics in the squad no problem; the good ones don't even have my charm tick. Now if the cleric is bad or has an internet problem, barb might be better. Or a better cleric or cleric with better internet connection, depends how hard up the group is.

So, the good fist BM can out-tank a good barb with sub-rate gear. Does anyone here; again, only people who actually understand physical damage formula coupled with -interval and speed buffs, actually believe a great barb will hold aggro better than a fist BM? Of course not. They have less crit, less damage, and even their aggro skills will not generate enough hate to out-do a fist BMs at grade, at level gear. Nor will an archer or wizard. Maybe if the wizard does their 6 sec kill spike before BM establishes aggro, but that falls under the duh category. Once established, it doesn't get lost with a few seconds lead after demon sparking. Even to demon archers.

So some of these posts I already know are from lack of knowledge, since if they did know they wouldn't post what they did. The write-ups, math, and mechanics have already been posted on BM section.

So, for people who actually can answer what effect a set -interval does coupled with a speed buff on XXX damage fists, feel free to post here. If you don't know it, please find string to play with.

NOTE: Posting is always much more fun when 3 sheets to the wind

Wow, you sure know your PWI. Enjoy the boner you get from knowing this useless information. This is a game not a math course. It's d-bags like you that give MMO's and the people that play them for fun a bad name. Might be good for you to get out once in a while...you clearly take this game way too seriously.b:thanksb:bye

Knownase - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Yea if anything, clerics are what make the world go round and round. Ultimately, its gonna be clerics who rage quit and eventually probably ending up killing the gameplay. (due to charms, pots, money issues, etc. etc.) You need BB for like everything 80+ which is kind of lame now (In terms of consumption). A cleric will need pots and MP charms and its only more expensive if failure is constant like partywipes, dying etc. etc.

Overall: Clerics are getting harder and harder to find for TT, FF, Lunar Glade because of cost issues, MP charms, pots etc. etc. Soon we cant do TT and such and everything will unravelb:surrender

b:cry

Enzio - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yea if anything, clerics are what make the world go round and round. Ultimately, its gonna be clerics who rage quit and eventually probably ending up killing the gameplay. (due to charms, pots, money issues, etc. etc.) You need BB for like everything 80+ which is kind of lame now (In terms of consumption). A cleric will need pots and MP charms and its only more expensive if failure is constant like partywipes, dying etc. etc.

Overall: Clerics are getting harder and harder to find for TT, FF, Lunar Glade because of cost issues, MP charms, pots etc. etc. Soon we cant do TT and such and everything will unravelb:surrender

b:cry

You have a point, I know Clerics that have already quit because of the lack of consideration towards them. I mean look sesame is 12-1500 now. When it used to be 500-800. MP charms should be cheaper for clerics because that class is already so damn expensive, they may have low repair bills, but that makes up for in MP pots and other mana food. b:cry We need nicer people

trufflelove · November 2009

Bms>Barbs

Without Flesh Ream and Beast King no one would even consider a Barbarian, ever. I've actually seen a lower level cleric steal agro off a barbarian using flesh ream simply by using Thunderball and a lot of damage. However BMs have Draw Blood, isn't that the same type of skill as Flesh Ream?

And I do strongly agree that Barbs wanting to tank everything is stupid, there are bosses where Wizards or even Clerics are the better choice. Like Qianji and Hellfire Drake.

Knownase - Heavens Tear · November 2009

trufflelove wrote: »

Bms>Barbs

Without Flesh Ream and Beast King no one would even consider a Barbarian, ever. I've actually seen a lower level cleric steal agro off a barbarian using flesh ream simply by using Thunderball and a lot of damage. However BMs have Draw Blood, isn't that the same type of skill as Flesh Ream?

And I do strongly agree that Barbs wanting to tank everything is stupid, there are bosses where Wizards or even Clerics are the better choice. Like Qianji and Hellfire Drake.

BMs can tank, but I've seen many BMs die from tanking as well. But for multiple aggro control, BMs struggle.

Yea yea, clerics can steal aggro, but that isn't what a barb is all about, we simply just take damage. Sure ppl steal aggro, but a good barb can get it back fast compare to a BM who takes like a minute to get it back, then oh look the Cleric/Wizzy/Archer is dead

Also, you forgot we can turtle up and cancel AOEsb:cute

Iseria - Harshlands · November 2009

trufflelove wrote: »

Bms>Barbs

Without Flesh Ream and Beast King no one would even consider a Barbarian, ever. I've actually seen a lower level cleric steal agro off a barbarian using flesh ream simply by using Thunderball and a lot of damage. However BMs have Draw Blood, isn't that the same type of skill as Flesh Ream?

And I do strongly agree that Barbs wanting to tank everything is stupid, there are bosses where Wizards or even Clerics are the better choice. Like Qianji and Hellfire Drake.

well that is your opinion affected by the neverending grudge between barbs and BMs. i have a level 75 barb( dont play it anymore due to boredom, i found wiz skills more amusing).i always BH with a fist BM and an axe BM, only lost aggro to the first when he sparked, he only got hit once before i recovered aggro with flesh realm. whereas if fist BM where tanking (true hit fast, but a wiz or archer crit can still steal aggro, i have seen it) it would take him a spark and couple of skills to recover, and the wiz or archer should stop attacking(and run for their life).
then lets say for X reason an AoE boss moves an inch and wizz/archer/veno dies. Barbs can use invoke spirit to give Cleric time to rez and heal whoever died. Bms cant do this.
so closing this again, as many have said Smart Barb>Smart BM, whereas crappy a.k.a Humanform Barb<Smart BM

Enzio - Heavens Tear · November 2009

I have out performed a barb that was my lvl. I stole aggro and kept it. He used Flesh ream and took it back, but I took it again and again. So prety much we had the boss confused he didn't know who to attack.

/Radar/ - Lost City · November 2009

PvE:

- only barbs can easily tank instances at their level (fb29 at 29, fb39 at 39, etc)

- only barbs can easily take full crowd control even in the most chaotic situations

- with the Alpha Male skill, barbs even further outclass BMs for crowd control

- no BM will EVER have the HP and HP regen rate of a pure-vit sage barb

PvP:

- a pure-vit sage barb with full 9x legendary g12 armor +12'd and 4socks with gstones has over 40k hp at level 103, and can easily stand their ground against multiple opponents

- above build with heiro, and cleric using BB = virtually impossible to kill

- no BM will EVER replace a barb for catpulling in TW

- above build with pure-ToP genie = insane perdi damage

sorry, but i think barbs outclass BMs for what they are designed to do: tanking damage b:bye

vbarbie · November 2009

Bottom Line is that theres Idiots in every Class Playing ,, nothing much to do about it but try to avoid them . This is not just a Barb or Cleric class Isue and it's NOTHING NEW.

/Radar/ - Lost City · November 2009

vbarbie wrote: »

Bottom Line is that theres Idiots in every Class Playing ,, nothing much to do about it but try to avoid them . This is not just a Barb or Cleric class Isue and it's NOTHING NEW.

you haven't been banned yet?

Saitada - Sanctuary · November 2009

Fist blade masters will be obsolete with the Tideborn Expansion. Assassins FTW!

~Saitada

p.s. just kidding guys.

vbarbie · November 2009

/Radar/ - Lost City wrote: »

you haven't been banned yet?

[IMG][/img]

Noob.. you don't have the right to open your mouthHole untill your 60+ HAven't your mother teach you not to get in Grown up's conversations?

/Radar/ - Lost City · November 2009

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fist blade masters will be obsolete with the Tideborn Expansion. Assassins FTW!

~Saitada

p.s. just kidding guys.

your joke may not be entirely off tho T_T

Saitada - Sanctuary · November 2009

/Radar/ - Lost City wrote: »

your joke may not be entirely off tho T_T

Yeah I know. I will be starting an Assassin when the expansion comes out, my wife a Psychic. This poor toon may not see the light of day for a while after that lol.

~Saitada

Saveless - Harshlands · November 2009

I don't care much for BM's tbh. Sure, love 'em in TW etc for stun squads. But when just straight up PvP'ing etc...gotta stop tickling my balls. (Release that tryface) Anyways...just uninstall if you prefer a BM over a barb to tank. b:shutup

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · November 2009

vbarbie wrote: »

Noob.. you don't have the right to open your mouthHole untill your 60+ HAven't your mother teach you not to get in Grown up's conversations?

someone's stupid lol. avatar #1 doesnt indicate their main's level. #2 level and or reputation isnt proof of knowledge.

to me, it sounds like OP is rather butt hurt

. the whole second novel they posted is so loaded with BS its not even funny. having heard personally the OP's weapon refine/interval he'd average about 6.8k DPS. a crimson horn w/o gloom or crit would be ~6k DPS with a decent refine. as we all know, archer > BM in crit %'s, and any time gloom goes off, thats an extra 100% weapon damage there. get off your high horse dude. fist BM isnt the end all be all of power house damage. archer > you, dont even get us started on wizards your level too. (ask legerity for the math, she did it for me lol)

dont go blaming everything on the ability of barbarians either. as its already been mentioned, a cleric can be bad too. kudos to you for tanking polearm, but that doesnt make fist BMs the better tank, let alone BMs in general. everyone generally knows what can and cant be tanked by a barb, the community doesnt need a lecture from someone egotistical as yourself.

/Radar/ - Lost City · November 2009

vbarbie wrote: »

Noob.. you don't have the right to open your mouthHole untill your 60+ HAven't your mother teach you not to get in Grown up's conversations?

ooo.... sounds like a struck a nerve. you obviously arent grown considering how you speak to people... youngster

Signako - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't care much for BM's tbh. Sure, love 'em in TW etc for stun squads. But when just straight up PvP'ing etc...gotta stop tickling my balls. (Release that tryface) Anyways...just uninstall if you prefer a BM over a barb to tank. b:shutup

I for one is a Tank BM, and when barbs are either complaining about Repair/Charm costs, or just want free runs, I am there to tank without saying a word except alright lets go. I get more invites to tank, than any barb I know, and when a barb comes into my group, they give me their buff, the cleric iron hearts me up, and away I go. Also between you and me, when a every run gives you a high repair cost, i get 1/4 of that, and always, and I mean always come out with a profit :P Hybrid for the win.b:victory

/Radar/ - Lost City · November 2009

Signako - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I for one is a Tank BM, and when barbs are either complaining about Repair/Charm costs, or just want free runs, I am there to tank without saying a word except alright lets go. I get more invites to tank, than any barb I know, and when a barb comes into my group, they give me their buff, the cleric iron hearts me up, and away I go. Also between you and me, when a every run gives you a high repair cost, i get 1/4 of that, and always, and I mean always come out with a profit :P Hybrid for the win.b:victory

repair cost is a direct reflection of how well the tank did

higher repairs = took more damage = held aggro longer

sure, BM kills the mobs faster than a barb can, but the DD has to hold back more than they would if a barb was tanking

as a level 44 barb, not even a level 6x archer could steal (and keep) aggro from me for more than a split second

long story short: barbs are tanks, BMs are support (DD, squishy protector, generalized crowd control)

_River - Heavens Tear · November 2009

/Radar/ - Lost City wrote: »

repair cost is a direct reflection of how well the tank did

higher repairs = took more damage = held aggro longer

sure, BM kills the mobs faster than a barb can, but the DD has to hold back more than they would if a barb was tanking

as a level 44 barb, not even a level 6x archer could steal (and keep) aggro from me for more than a split second

long story short: barbs are tanks, BMs are support (DD, squishy protector, generalized crowd control)

I have to disagree. Just because they have a higher repair bill, doesn't mean they tanked better. You have to understand, higher dex in any build increases the evasion one has. His dodge rate is greater than any barb I know. And trust me, I watch as bosses and mobs miss him like crazy.

And I've known Signako to have held aggro off a level 98 archer going all out. And I don't even have to hold back on any mobs or bosses that he's tanking for me. My pet skills don't have to be off either and my pets are all maxed loyalty and maxed aggro skilled.

I've seen my phoenix have issues pulling aggro from Sig as well. level 91 phoenix, maxed FR, using claw, and still cannot pull from him. I'm also a demon veno with a high crit rate, maxed debuffs, and ~30% channeling.

And before you say that Sig is in high refines, his gear is all at +3 only.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · November 2009

And before you say that Sig is in high refines, his gear is all at +3 only.

hasn't much to do with his refines. BM already has way higher attack than phoenix, and base fist is 1.43 atk/s. give him an attack speed tome/cape and he can hit 2 attacks per second. that alone > phoenix. then again, give archer same interval gear + the armor that BMs cant wear for an extra -.1, we'll get up to a full atk/s doing way higher damage a hit than the BM's 2 hits. its pretty scary stuff.

_River - Heavens Tear · November 2009

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

hasn't much to do with his refines. BM already has way higher attack than phoenix, and base fist is 1.43 atk/s. give him an attack speed tome/cape and he can hit 2 attacks per second. that alone > phoenix. then again, give archer same interval gear + the armor that BMs cant wear for an extra -.1, we'll get up to a full atk/s doing way higher damage a hit than the BM's 2 hits. its pretty scary stuff.

True :P But i was talking about from me and other pets. The phoenix info was just an add on.

Hazardus - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Hmm.....nowadays it seems a lot of barbs wanna try and be a DD and a lot of BMs wanna try and be a tank.

The thing is theres no hard and fast rule to doing things. You dont always need X and Y to do Z. Heck a couple of my guildies once did a full wined BH 69 run without a cleric b:shocked (think it was either 3 barbs and 3 venos or 2 barbs, a BM and 3 venos). Never let the bosses cast even once. b:chuckle

Smart people who know what to do when, can often find ingenious ways to solve problems. Know what to do and when to do it and you suddenly find you can bend the rules a lot more than you thought.

For e.g. I laugh at barbs who try and be DDs as humanoid when a veno's herc tanks in TT. Barbs can contribute so much more by staying tiger and debuffing.

As regard to aggro the only two types I have problems with is the pure dex archer and the occasonal fist BMs. Their rapid attacks and high crit rates make them something to keep an eye out for.....particularly when they spark.
I just ensure I have enough chi at all time and spam fleshream and problem solved.
Yes, they do pull sometimes and more likely then not its when I was timing my alclarity to cancel some aoe or debuff.

Edit: And yes I too have quit parties, but not because I demand a free run...but sometimes people are too lazy to find cheaper stuff and just pick and buy the first wine they see. I know I can find parties with less than 75k as a wine split.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, the good fist BM can out-tank a good barb with sub-rate gear. Does anyone here; again, only people who actually understand physical damage formula coupled with -interval and speed buffs, actually believe a great barb will hold aggro better than a fist BM? Of course not.

There is one case, off of the top of my head: TT bosses.

Damage is reduced by 3/4, down to 25%.
Aggro skills are not reduced.

Thus, a Barb can hold aggro against a BM.

Granted, the BM can still outdamage other DDs, but that is not the point I am making.

EDIT: My thanx, Lady WaffleChan.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · November 2009

dont you mean reduced to a 1/4? (ie 25%) the way you word it makes it look like we do 75% damage, and have a 25% reduc.

Knownase - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Clerics go on strike, Barbs go on strike lol

On Topic: Its whatever, if the BM wants to tank in my squad, be my guestb:victory

But tanking in 3-2 and 3-3 as well as FB99?b:shocked

Maybe a sage barb should do thatb:cute

Sage Barbs = Ultimate Tank (My opinion I suppose >_______>)

_River - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Clerics go on strike, Barbs go on strike lol

On Topic: Its whatever, if the BM wants to tank in my squad, be my guessb:victory

But tanking in 3-2 and 3-3 as well as FB99?b:shocked

Maybe a sage barb should do thatb:cute

Sage Barbs = Ultimate Tank (My opinion I suppose >_______>)

Well I have never done a 3-2 or a 3-3 but I know a BM can tank fb99 heaven :P Cause Signako tanked it with 2 clerics, an archer going all out, me going all out with my pet, a barb attempting to tank (but not able to keep aggro from Sig). So it is possible ^^ (and btw I was the only one that died in that fb lmao).

Saveless - Harshlands · November 2009

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well I have never done a 3-2 or a 3-3 but I know a BM can tank fb99 heaven :P Cause Signako tanked it with 2 clerics, an archer going all out, me going all out with my pet, a barb attempting to tank (but not able to keep aggro from Sig). So it is possible ^^ (and btw I was the only one that died in that fb lmao).

Well duh, the bramble helps.

_River - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »

Well duh, the bramble helps.

What's bramble o.o?

lmao jk jk. Sadly I kept forgetting to re-bramble everyone. So no bramble was used in the latter part of the fb ^^;;

But if the mob/boss misses the player, then bramble reflects nothing. Given that high dex blademasters have a higher evasion, bramble is almost useless on them as it would just miss anyways.

Moron Barbs

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