81 Levels and I still cant Figure out Magical Attack..

garygnu
garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
edited November 2009 in Wizard
Ok fellow PWI experts and all knowing wizzys out there I have a question I cant find an answer for.

My magical range is 3500-4700 when i pull up character page.

lets take Glacial snare for instance: Base+4201+270% of magic damage(much more than 4700!)

Now in the lvl80 n00b world i live in, especially in the LA vs ARCANE debate this tells me that even though the PWI CALCULATOR tells me an ARCANE wiz will have a magical damage range 1k more than me, not knowing how the stats work tells me that an Arcane will only do more BASE damage then me(which is not a whole bunch).

I am assuming that there is some type of stat formula, maybe a multiplier or something i am missing here. someone PLEASE edumacate me.

Thanks alot.
Post edited by garygnu on

Comments

  • forks89
    forks89 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    have you taken into account anything about the defence of the mobs you are fighting.
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  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    This is a straight up question before other factors are taken into consideration, lets assume i am hitting a 1st level person with no armor.

    the Arcane wiz has 300 more base magic then me but the PWI calculator says his range is 1k more.

    The spells are identical as are the weapons.

    does he do 300 more or 1000 more?
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    what were you testing on? cause u say "lets assume I am hitting ... " that means you never actually did the test.
    And yes, the actual diff is only the one in magic attk. HOWEVER, magic acts somehow as a multiplier. As you get more and more your attk bonuses from weapon and rings are bigger also and that's where LA is losing ground after 90. Two builds with comparable gear will have up to 2k diff in base magic dmg.
    And one more thing: the diff between a crappy geared Arcane and a decently geared LA is close to null.
    ____________
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  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Thanks URSA, I am a maxed out LA, probably equal to an average ARCANE, however what I am looking for is some kinda a table/explanation of why someone with a base magic 300 more than me does over 1k more damage than me.

    I mean, is my assumption with glacial snare correct? will an ARCANE only do more than the difference in base magic than I?

    Where is the calculation to show the true difference between my 262 MAG and an ARCANE 300+ magic same gear same spell.

    I am sure it is here somewhere.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    what were you testing on? cause u say "lets assume I am hitting ... " that means you never actually did the test.
    And yes, the actual diff is only the one in magic attk. HOWEVER, magic acts somehow as a multiplier. As you get more and more your attk bonuses from weapon and rings are bigger also and that's where LA is losing ground after 90. Two builds with comparable gear will have up to 2k diff in base magic dmg.
    And one more thing: the diff between a crappy geared Arcane and a decently geared LA is close to null.

    oh noes me am a wizzy with teh "crappy gear" b:shocked
    b:surrender
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  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Not sure what you are aiming at hamsta, but lets assume that gear isnt the issue here and find the answer to my question.

    The "somehow" in urza reply is what we should be searching for.


    I think the answer would help all.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    garygnu wrote: »
    Not sure what you are aiming at hamsta, but lets assume that gear isnt the issue here and find the answer to my question.

    The "somehow" in urza reply is what we should be searching for.


    I think the answer would help all.

    there be a formula but it be confoosing as heck.
    X_x'
    okie heres what you need to know.
    3190-3750 = me magic attack with me Grief's breath unbuffed (yes me am poor hamster. T.T)
    now when me take it out it drops to 655-655.
    584-713 be the magic attack range on the weapon.
    so obviously there be a multiplier between magic attack and magic attack of the weapon. (me suspect the generalized version of it be magic attack raised to a power? or mayhaps multiplied by roughly 5.2 or something. could be some type of ratio too.) b:question



    bottom line= since there be exponential powah increase or something. (too confoosed to figure it out) to your magic attack start pumping in points to mag. b:shy
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    yeah, I don't think any1 has the exact math on that.
    I have about 430 magic at the moment....(or i think so, lol, i nevey pay attention to that number, just stack points on it).
    Now a LA my lvl has to have 94 str and 94 agil to wear the TT90 top.
    I have 48 str, all the rest is magic.
    If you make the difference is about 140 points in magic. That changes everything, and the gap only gets bigger.
    As you say at lvl 81 is probably a 60 points difference...70 maybe...I don't know. But at 90 is twice that much. And that's only 90. At endgame is even bigger, and around 95/96 Arcane gets some gear that basically covers the biggest weakness: Pdef. Pdef for Arcanes at 95+ matches the pdef of LA ( not in number but in dmg reduction 1-2% diff at most), but Damage output is way bigger for Arcane. That's why endgame, the only build that counts is Arcane because you have the Pdef and Mdef to stand your ground.
    ____________
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    At endgame is even bigger, and around 95/96 Arcane gets some gear that basically covers the biggest weakness: Pdef. Pdef for Arcanes at 95+ matches the pdef of LA ( not in number but in dmg reduction 1-2% diff at most)

    didn't mayhaps Kristoph have like that screenshot of him having more p def then a LA wizard? b:shockedb:thanks
    lols
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Okay Hamsta i see the multiplier thing you got going there. So here is new question that may be born of my misunderstanding to begin with:

    The Magical Range..is that the "BASE" used in the spells? so your base is never the same technically

    so going back to snare it would be:270% of weapon+"magical attack range" + 4201?

    THEN it all makes sense
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Yes, the number that you see on you're character pannel (magic attack), is the 'base', just as phys attack is the 'base phys attack'
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    THATS the answer I was looking for, so base is technically a random number...


    Interesting.

    So somewhere along the line and some predetermined point in the 80's-100' the "base" will take a huge jump in damage.

    Whatever the multiplier MAG gives maybe is not an even like but maybe exponential or logorithmic.
  • TehMage - Lost City
    TehMage - Lost City Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Base isnt random.

    If you want to knw your base take your weapon off and look at your magic attack, that's your base.
  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    TehMage...ARRGGG!!

    back to square one...

    an arcane my level has 200-300 more base then me

    so using glacial yet again: base+270%weapon+4201 does he only do 300 more?
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    TehMage - Lost City wrote: »
    Base isnt random.

    If you want to knw your base take your weapon off and look at your magic attack, that's your base.

    dude, go into any town that has some lvl 1 mobs ( horses, chickens, whatever) and hit one about 10 times, get the numbers and make the average.
    Then take your weapon off and hit the mob once.
    After that read skill description and do the math.

    Numbers that are comming out of mobs when u grind might be closer to the numbers you have without the weapon, but that's because unless is a lvl 1 mob ( like the ones in the cities) it has a mag res that will decrease your dmg on it.

    Please, do that math and come back and post the numbers and we'll talk then, ok?
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TehMage - Lost City
    TehMage - Lost City Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    garygnu wrote: »
    TehMage...ARRGGG!!

    back to square one...

    an arcane my level has 200-300 more base then me

    so using glacial yet again: base+270%weapon+4201 does he only do 300 more?

    No its not only 300 more ill ask my friend for the formula and he'll post it here later, K?
  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    okay i am seeing it, there is a strange formula based on MAG and level.

    it really all comes down to pure MAG i dont think the multipliers get higher over certain levels.

    Hence a arcane 90 mage with lv 80 LA MAG will still have a higher base, maybe not that much more then the 80 LA wiz...interesting.

    did they hire insurance actuaries to make this stuff up?
  • Ty - Heavens Tear
    Ty - Heavens Tear Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Magic Attack = (1+Magic/100)*(Level+weapon+rings+gems)

    In any player vs player situation damage is reduced to 1/4 of normal damage.
    I like pie
  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    So given that then what we are looking at is a percentage, i.e. a LA wiz will always to a certain percentage less then arcane and and the MAG grows the DAMAGE grows and the percentage becomes much more pronounced maybe?

    SO at 81 i do 1k less damage then arcane which is about 25%, 3700k vs 4700k(approx)

    Take a lvl 95 LA's damage vs ARCANE and 25% may be 2k or more.

    So it may be a straight percentage game then.

    Just the way some people talk it seems like something magical happens after 85, like the formula changes or something giving godlike endgame power.

    Maybe what should be said is "is the 200% increase in phys def worth losing up to 2000 points of damage potential?"

    I wonder, I also wonder if i am just guessing out my @ss.

    lol
  • InvokerMage - Lost City
    InvokerMage - Lost City Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    there be a formula but it be confoosing as heck.
    since there be exponential powah increase or something

    the best people to ask are the admins of a private server imo. since they have access the actual code/formula that the game calculates damage with.
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I have about 430 magic at the moment....

    can i be your friend? ^^
    i dont want to be on the recieving end of one of your spells
    im not even safe on a different serverb:shocked
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    didn't mayhaps Kristoph have like that screenshot of him having more p def then a LA wizard?

    ask llama about pys. def i think
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    InvokerMage - Lost City wrote: »
    the best people to ask are the admins of a private server imo. since they have access the actual code/formula that the game calculates damage with.

    REALLY? THEY HAS TEH CODE???
    zmog!
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • InvokerMage - Lost City
    InvokerMage - Lost City Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    REALLY? THEY HAS TEH CODE???
    zmog!

    i doubt any devs on the PWE staff would actually take the time to check up on the code and tell us....
  • garygnu
    garygnu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Thank you Cholla,

    I guess I am different because my 80 LA is maxed out with shards and alot of my gear is stat improvement and crit improvement.

    My shards are mostly HP with some phys def.

    At 81 my hp is 2900/phys def with stone barrier is 5800 and my base magic is 1k less then an arcane same gear(according to the all powerful PWI calculator)

    If i switched to arcane and replaced all shards with garnets i guess i could match the phys def but at the cost of some serious HP. and then of course the xtra 1k damage is helpful.

    So if i kept up the LA with same citrine/garnet ratio at lvl 90 my phys def would be something like 7500 with barrier. Could lvl 90 ARCANE maxed out on garnets match LA with 12 immac garnets and the rest citrines. at that point there will be a loss of HP.

    But again I guees the big question is still,"what is the damage difference" by the formula it is always 20ish% maybe 1500 points at lvl 90.

    With the Crit build one 24k crit makes up for 12 spells that are 1k less effective.

    This arguments is always the conundrum
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    garygnu me can see you has teh headache from all this mental gymnastics you trying to do. b:chuckle
    so heres what me recommend you do.

    from what it sounds like LA is working just fine for you right now.
    go play some more and level up while saving up some $$ then later when you can afford to go pure without your HP taking a nosedive you should do it.
    d(^.-d)
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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