Why hp over p-def again?

the answer to every one of your concerns is simple:

The amount of physical defence you could add through soulgems is so negligible that it's not worth mentioning (anything less than perfects would add less than 2% dmg reduction in all likely hood).

I am not a blademaster but I hope I can put my input. First you answered your own questions OP. You thought about this quite abit. My opinion is Pdef for the melee classes and HP for everyone else.

Second. Yes you dont get much Pdef with shards, but guess what? Pdef NEVER GOES DOWN. its constant. even it its a low %. HP on the other hand, ONE hit its gone. Its not fair to get 1000s of Pdef you would be OP and neigh unstoppable. This man speaks truth here http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=1287881&postcount=6

Third. Someone else mentioned that alot of HP without Pdef is just an armour made of jello. Its gonna get eaten through like nothing. The less Pdef you have, the more HP youre gonna loose per hit.

fourth. Enemies don't do a set number of damage points it varies depending on your HP and physical resistance (or magic resistance if getting hit with magic attacks w/e). I cant find the thread so if someone finds it please post. This member tries to explain http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4111412&postcount=62 thats all I could dig up on this sorry.

fifth. Melee class wears Heavy armour and Pdef ornaments. Think about that. why not Light armour? "it defends better against magic attacks" (pfft just like the poor reason given for going HP over Pdef) I'll tell you why, cause you need the physical resistance to freaking tank. Bottom line. Without it you die. Why do you BMs have a Pdef buff? So you can make up for your lesser amount of HP and tank stuff. If you stat like a barb you can take a hit like one (the aggro is where the difference lies imho).

There is not many enemies in the game that will kill you with their magic attack so its best to carry apothecary items for these "special" situations, and guard against the VAST majority of the enemies that will kill you with their non-magic attacks. (I still remember the damn guy with the drum in TT b:angry )

And one last thing, I know I can tank much much better with the Physical resistance buff you blademasters have. Thank you btw.

leave the HP for the non-melee classes that need it. Wizzards, archers, clerics, or venos. Maybe thats where the melee class got the idea for HP over Pdef.....everyone else was doing it, thats the ONLY way THEY know how to survive, cause they are taking damage from a distance, and said damage is usually magical damage. Pdef doesnt protect against that so its useless for them, and then they go around yelling "Pdef is useless fail".

(I am going to put on my flame retardant suit brb)

Personally I always shard armour with HP, since you get the benifit of the extra HP vs both phys and mag attacks, where as you only get the benifit of phys shards vs ermmmm phys lol

Aquilonian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am not a blademaster but I hope I can put my input. First you answered your own questions OP. You thought about this quite abit. My opinion is Pdef for the melee classes and HP for everyone else.

Second. Yes you dont get much Pdef with shards, but guess what? Pdef NEVER GOES DOWN. its constant. even it its a low %. HP on the other hand, ONE hit its gone. Its not fair to get 1000s of Pdef you would be OP and neigh unstoppable. This man speaks truth here http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=1287881&postcount=6

Third. Someone else mentioned that alot of HP without Pdef is just an armour made of jello. Its gonna get eaten through like nothing. The less Pdef you have, the more HP youre gonna loose per hit.

fourth. Enemies don't do a set number of damage points it varies depending on your HP and physical resistance (or magic resistance if getting hit with magic attacks w/e). I cant find the thread so if someone finds it please post. This member tries to explain http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4111412&postcount=62 thats all I could dig up on this sorry.

fifth. Melee class wears Heavy armour and Pdef ornaments. Think about that. why not Light armour? "it defends better against magic attacks" (pfft just like the poor reason given for going HP over Pdef) I'll tell you why, cause you need the physical resistance to freaking tank. Bottom line. Without it you die. Why do you BMs have a Pdef buff? So you can make up for your lesser amount of HP and tank stuff. If you stat like a barb you can take a hit like one (the aggro is where the difference lies imho).

There is not many enemies in the game that will kill you with their magic attack so its best to carry apothecary items for these "special" situations, and guard against the VAST majority of the enemies that will kill you with their non-magic attacks. (I still remember the damn guy with the drum in TT b:angry )

And one last thing, I know I can tank much much better with the Physical resistance buff you blademasters have. Thank you btw.

leave the HP for the non-melee classes that need it. Wizzards, archers, clerics, or venos. Maybe thats where the melee class got the idea for HP over Pdef.....everyone else was doing it, thats the ONLY way THEY know how to survive, cause they are taking damage from a distance, and said damage is usually magical damage. Pdef doesnt protect against that so its useless for them, and then they go around yelling "Pdef is useless fail".

(I am going to put on my flame retardant suit brb)

^ this +1

Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »

is this guy a joke?

if you've ever played with him, you'd know he's not a joke b:bye

---

now as for my opinion, pdef > hp for BM. reason is simple, we'll never have the HP of a barb, and as aquilonian said, higher pdef = less damage per hit (which means the hp you already have lasts longer). diminishing returns or not, 1% is still 1%, i cant tell ya how many times that blessing in fbs has saved me when i normally would have been 1-2shotted by bosses.

also, HP is good for LA casters (and maybe archers, but pdef is pretty good for them i've noticed). but for arcane casters, you just go hybrid vit build to solve your HP, and get pdef gems to help negate (alot) of the damage you'll take. exception is mage AA lol...

/Radar/ - Lost City wrote: »

^ this +1



if you've ever played with him, you'd know he's not a joke b:bye

---

now as for my opinion, pdef > hp for BM. reason is simple, we'll never have the HP of a barb, and as aquilonian said, higher pdef = less damage per hit (which means the hp you already have lasts longer). diminishing returns or not, 1% is still 1%, i cant tell ya how many times that blessing in fbs has saved me when i normally would have been 1-2shotted by bosses.

also, HP is good for LA casters (and maybe archers, but pdef is pretty good for them i've noticed). but for arcane casters, you just go hybrid vit build to solve your HP, and get pdef gems to help negate (alot) of the damage you'll take. exception is mage AA lol...

he is mentally defected than with u together. there is even no point of explaining whats wrong with the stuff u two wrote, lets just take the straight opposite of everything.

first, before i make my replies to the quotes, let me say i was half-asleep and not thinking straight when i posted that <_<;

mdef > hp+pdef combined... personal experience says as much anyways

pdef: already got a crapton thru HA+bell
hp: any intelligent BM has [at least] (vit=lvl+4), plus the HP from refines
mdef: i hate mages b:surrender

Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »

he is mentally defected than with u together. there is even no point of explaining whats wrong with the stuff u two wrote, lets just take the straight opposite of everything.

could someone translate this for me?

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

He did not take into account marrows,

yea, in my half-awake daze i forgot about marrows, and how they work... hence my alteration of opinion as shown at the top of my post

the rest of your post is good points btw

Sunspot - Lost City wrote: »

phys def > HP for BMs only makes sense in PVE server.

i fail to see how this is related to this thread.. plus it feels faintly of instigation for arguments/flaming

lol@this topic

honestly, unless you're using g12 pdef stones, the come back is so small that you wont even notice it. that means you'll be taking the same damage you would be with hp stones, but with a smaller hp pool. it's just stupid to do it.

if you seriously lack in phy. defense, refine your accessories. refine your rings too, they give defense. you'll get FAR more pdef from refines than pdef stones will ever give.

...Surprised this thread lasted this long.

Nevlik - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the answer to every one of your concerns is simple:

The amount of physical defence you could add through soulgems is so negligible that it's not worth mentioning (anything less than perfects would add less than 2% dmg reduction in all likely hood).

I thought that would have been the end of it.

i don't mean to stray semi-off topic, but how about mdef vs hp? im currently using elemental adorns and magic still hurts me for a hell lot. im a dex build (3-2), so my hp isnt high.

i've read some posts saying you shouldnt marrow in pvp because it just makes your other defense non-existent (relatively). so that being said, should i still go hp, or try to boost up my mdef as much as i can with shards, and then gain some hp with refines? (or the hidden option, learn to marrow =P)

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I do not think that should matter for anyone.

If a monster hits you for 1000 damage, and you have 10% damage reduction, you take 900 damage. If you have 90% damage reduction you take 100 damage. If you have 91% damage reduction you take 90 damage. Going from 90% damage reduction to 91% damage reduction works just like going from 0% damage reduction to 10% damage reduction. No one should care that the difference between 0 and 10% is bigger than the difference between 90 and 91%.

the problem is that it takes exponentionally more def (higher grade/more shards) in order to get that 1%, and because of the high amount of physical def bms can achieve with no effort at all, the hp you could gain from shards would give you a much greater benefit than phys def shards.

Delmarte - Lost City wrote: »

Because of the damage reduction in PvP, HP's importance inflates in PvP. So HP might just be a better choice. But it's still highly debatable.

What he said.
However my personal choice is Mag-Def shards. Which, while wearing heavy armor, do give me a significant defense difference relative to what hp shards could do for me.

Citrin all the way


Unless ur grinding on pure phys mobs all day and doing nothing else, then sure phys def might be a choice.

Bm's have enough phys defence with our buffs and marrow,
why the hell would u want more? do u want to get one shot by a mage 5 lvs lower then u? There's 4 classes which do magic damage; having more phys defence wont help you against them.

Melee vs melee(phys damage), u will still get off better with hp.
Damage reduction from phys defence IS NOT superior to the damage % resistance provided by HP shards.

I can see a lot of ppl are having trouble grasping the concept.
So think about it like this

Your HP is 3000, with Phys Shards - u get phys hit repeatedly for exactly 100. = it will take 30 hits to kill u.

OR

Your HP is 3400, with HP Shards - u get phys hit repeatedly for exactly 110. = getting hit 30 times will leave u alive with 100hp .


these numbers are generic and not exact hit/resistance ratios, But it is essentially how the concept works.


But considering phys shards only protect against phys attacks, and Hp shards are fundamentally prolonging life against both magic and phys. there is really no debate here.

IMO phys shards are better suited to classes with low phys defence; like squishy mages.

b:bye

Sunspot - Lost City wrote: »

phys def > HP for BMs only makes sense in PVE server.

yes sir you are correct. I am surprised I did not write that. I had thought I did. That is a really really big mistake in my part. I admit that and take all the blame.

I was under the impression that I had put that in bold letters somewhere in there. Until I saw the replies. Damn b:angry failed

My opinion was only meant for PvE. If you are strict PvE, or you care about PvE more than PvP. In PvP it wont help you except for other melee class.

Also, I dont PvP I am truly a noob at that, only 40 hours on PvP so dont get into a PvP challenge of wits with me. You will win b:surrender . I seem to suck bad, I cant kill anyone on this server cause no one likes to attack barbs, and Dreamweaver players have this awesome trick I call "doing the Disco" where they somehow disconnect when they are loosing, or their "backdoor little joe" tactics fail.