Environmental debuff!

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Tawnos - Dreamweaver
Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
edited October 2009 in General Discussion
A few days ago I started a thread suggesting non grinding content to be added to this great game. Please take a look for reference:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=455872

Many players liked the idea while others mentioned reasons why this kind of features is unlikely to happen. However I was thinking on another feature (sorry I used to be a pen and paper dungeon master so I have a lot of STUPID ideas about making quests more fun) way easier to implement and that I think will make each grinding a unique experience.However I would want to hear opinions before officially suggesting it.

What about if in many of the grinding areas there are some environmental debuffs? What I mean is this: For example on a given zone if you go at nights you get a debuff on all your fire spells but if you go at days you get debuff on your water spells.

On other areas in the day you get debuff to your physical attacks and on other time you get debuff of all your magic attacks. And the list of debuffs goes on like debuffs to your running speed on snow, maybe on some areas at nights you can only see mobs when they are close to you, etc.

That way if go to an area to grind and success the next time you go you will have to develop a new strategy because different debuffs will means different strategies. This will make each grinding experience different.

Also given that the game already have implemented debuff, day and night cycles and the land is already broken in areas because of the factions wars feature I think that with a really small amount of code this feature can be implemented.

Well here come the flame my post part! You may begin casting all kind of fire against it! Pyroshell max out!
Post edited by Tawnos - Dreamweaver on
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  • Alerean - Heavens Tear
    Alerean - Heavens Tear Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    An interesting idea, although I see lots of balance and perhaps technical issues behind it.

    One thought, Clerics would have a huge advantage from this as they could simply purify off the debuff.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Alerean - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    An interesting idea, although I see lots of balance and perhaps technical issues behind it.

    One thought, Clerics would have a huge advantage from this as they could simply purify off the debuff.

    No, it would be a debuff that will be on you until you leave the area and cannot be removed until you leave the area.
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    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Alerean - Heavens Tear
    Alerean - Heavens Tear Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    No, it would be a debuff that will be on you until you leave the area and cannot be removed until you leave the area.

    That is where the technical issues come into play. From my observations, the way debuffs work in this game is that there is no "permanent" buff or debuff, they simply might have a 6 second duration and are reapplied every 5 seconds to give the impression of being permanent (BB damage reduction buff for example.) So if you are applying a debuff to all characters in a region every 5 seconds you start to add a lot of load to the server which already lags sometimes during busy events.

    That said as I originally posted I think it would be an interesting idea and if it were implemented well it would be great, but it also has the possibility of being implemented poorly in which case it would be terrible (both in terms of balance and technical issues like lag). Say you have a Wizard that has a quest to kill some mobs in an area associated with an matk debuff. It would make his quest MUCH harder if not near impossible because Wizards only get magic attacks (59 dual spark isn't much use for grinding mobs like that.)
  • Flickerfae - Sanctuary
    Flickerfae - Sanctuary Posts: 351 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    I'm a pencil and paper DM too, so I empathize with the desire to make these sorts of quests more interesting and varied.

    But personally, I don't know if an area debuff would be the way to do it. While it would make sense for immersion to have, say, a slower running speed in snow or a penalty to water spells in hot volcanic zones, I suspect it would just get annoying after awhile. Cleric grinding generally doesn't involve much strategy (stack an ironheart or three, then whirlwind-plumeshot-whirlwind-plumeshot until it's dead. Maybe kite if it's necessary.) This would make environmental debuffs more of a pain than anything. I can see how it would make things interesting for the elementally-varied wizards, but not so much for me. b:surrender
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  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Alerean - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    An interesting idea, although I see lots of balance and perhaps technical issues behind it.

    One thought, Clerics would have a huge advantage from this as they could simply purify off the debuff.

    The kind of debuff I am talking about wil be constant while in the area. So purify wont work with those types of debuffs
  • DarkSniper - Lost City
    DarkSniper - Lost City Posts: 1,830 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Does it involve the cashshop?

    If no then the answer to whether or not this will ever happen is the same.
    The only way to win is to quit. b:bye
  • Belief - Harshlands
    Belief - Harshlands Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    You can always buy the "Anti Debuff Special Charm" For 50 Gold only.
    Limited Time offers!! b:bye
    Aurian: Loyal? Power-hoes are loyal to nobody
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Flickerfae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm a pencil and paper DM too, so I empathize with the desire to make these sorts of quests more interesting and varied.

    But personally, I don't know if an area debuff would be the way to do it. While it would make sense for immersion to have, say, a slower running speed in snow or a penalty to water spells in hot volcanic zones, I suspect it would just get annoying after awhile. Cleric grinding generally doesn't involve much strategy (stack an ironheart or three, then whirlwind-plumeshot-whirlwind-plumeshot until it's dead. Maybe kite if it's necessary.) This would make environmental debuffs more of a pain than anything. I can see how it would make things interesting for the elementally-varied wizards, but not so much for me. b:surrender

    I understand your point however I am not talking only about elemental debuffs I am talking about all kind of debuffs, like speed, vision range, healing spells, etc. So I am different levels of dificulty for everybody and of course some areas will be harder for some classes. Please also remember that the kind of debuff will change over time. So at some point clerics will be in favor and and some point they will need help or a better strategy!
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Belief - Harshlands wrote: »
    You can always buy the "Anti Debuff Special Charm" For 50 Gold only.
    Limited Time offers!! b:bye

    Yeap I am preatty sure PWI will love that idea! LOL
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Alerean - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    but it also has the possibility of being implemented poorly in which case it would be terrible (both in terms of balance and technical issues like lag).

    Point taken!
  • Khalfani - Harshlands
    Khalfani - Harshlands Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    How about starting simple and adding a fog of war at night. :P
    (Fog of war = Less vision/distance of enemies).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=459842
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »
    How about starting simple and adding a fog of war at night. :P
    (Fog of war = Less vision/distance of enemies).

    I like the idea of sistematically adding environmental challenges! If the first one works then a second and so on. Also the fog or war dont have to be on all areas at night! That will make each area unique for grinding!
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Tawnos - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I like the idea of sistematically adding environmental challenges! If the first one works then a second and so on. Also the fog or war dont have to be on all areas at night! That will make each area unique for grinding!

    It can snow too and we can all go ice skating on Etherblade lake b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • MyuMyu - Harshlands
    MyuMyu - Harshlands Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Like that Idea^^

    what if add some "Ambush-Trap" (set randomly by program),
    so if you step / fly to certain Coordinate Point, suddenly 2 or 3 Mobs will appear around you :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »
    It can snow too and we can all go ice skating on Etherblade lake b:victory

    I was about to make a funny (PINK) comment but I will get banned if I do so! So I will simply laught! LOL
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    MyuMyu - Harshlands wrote: »
    Like that Idea^^

    what if add some "Ambush-Trap" (set randomly by program),
    so if you step / fly to certain Coordinate Point, suddenly 2 or 3 Mobs will appear around you :P

    I like the idea but only on areas with mobs over level 15 or so. To give the new players some false sense of security at first! b:laugh
  • DarkSniper - Lost City
    DarkSniper - Lost City Posts: 1,830 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »
    It can snow too and we can all go ice skating on Etherblade lake b:victory
    Then people will get stuck in the ice.
    The only way to win is to quit. b:bye
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »
    Then people will get stuck in the ice.

    Only the ones that nature intended to weed out of the population anyways.

    Or, we could just do some ice-fishing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    MyuMyu - Harshlands wrote: »
    Like that Idea^^

    what if add some "Ambush-Trap" (set randomly by program),
    so if you step / fly to certain Coordinate Point, suddenly 2 or 3 Mobs will appear around you :P

    Add to that. Make it really evil like the traps were in final fantasy tactics. Traps that can call monsters on you, or just do damage. Lets not forget status problems they can give or the dreaded de-level trap that makes you lose a level.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Khalfani - Harshlands
    Khalfani - Harshlands Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Starting to remind me of this Expansion pack by the Sims 2... Oh yeah, Seasons.

    Nah, I don't think that adding little weather effects would be an improvement (that much). I was focusing more on my point on starting small than the suggestion of a fog of war really.

    It'd be hard to implement environmental effects that boosts attacks or such because this will lead to favouritism and all. Say the wolf totem valley favours earth abilities, all the wizards with earth skills will chill there and PK the heck out of passerbyers. Small effects are probably going to be more annoying than being able to enjoy its 'uniquness' to the game.
    Say for instance snowing or a wind change will reduce flight speed. If there are air mobs there it would technically make grinding even more harder and tiresome than ever.

    Its a great idea, it's just that there could be a better usage of environmental effects than buffs/debuffs.
    (And by better usage, I mean better improvements than implementing environmental effects to enhance grinding).

    But just so I won't leave the plate empty or so, I would rather have random weather changes in every area rather than just in an area. I mean, when was the last time it Rained in the City of the Lost or snowed in Etherblade? Won't do much but it'll certainly add to aesthetics (and lag).
    *shrugs*
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=459842
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    or the dreaded de-level trap that makes you lose a level.

    Please dont ever mention that again! They are reading it! b:shocked
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »
    Starting to remind me of this Expansion pack by the Sims 2... Oh yeah, Seasons.


    It'd be hard to implement environmental effects that boosts attacks or such because this will lead to favouritism and all. Say the wolf totem valley favours earth abilities, all the wizards with earth skills will chill there and PK the heck out of passerbyers. *shrugs*

    Yeap but if those environmental effects are changing with time in the middle of the PK the sun will rise the wizards will get debuff at last moment and will have to run like chikens!

    Remember that the debuffs I suggest are changing over time!
  • StormHydra - Sanctuary
    StormHydra - Sanctuary Posts: 2,221 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    No debuffs in safe zones? To prevent lag...(imagine west arch with all those catshops having debuffs...)
    There probably shouldnt be any debuffs in daytime, unless the new Tideborn race gets a "shadow" element or "darkness" element (weak against fire?).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Miatemaro - Heavens Tear
    Miatemaro - Heavens Tear Posts: 700 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Actually area debuffs dont work, They make it more annoying then it should be. This is speaking from experience as I played a game that had them, it makes the areas ****.
    working it Q_Q
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  • Tamuz - Lost City
    Tamuz - Lost City Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    love , love , love it 100%
  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »
    It can snow too and we can all go ice skating on Etherblade lake b:victory

    Cool Idea (To OP)

    Cool Idea (To RedsRose)

    Love the new Siggy (Also to RedsRose)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Miatemaro - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Actually area debuffs dont work, They make it more annoying then it should be. This is speaking from experience as I played a game that had them, it makes the areas ****.

    Could you please PM me the name of the game? I would love to check it to see if it is what I have in mind.
  • Tawnos - Dreamweaver
    Tawnos - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Amazing somebody did a mathematical study to explain why grinding is important in MMOs :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Worlds_(presentation)
  • Miatemaro - Heavens Tear
    Miatemaro - Heavens Tear Posts: 700 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Tawnos - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Could you please PM me the name of the game? I would love to check it to see if it is what I have in mind.

    sent it to you.
    working it Q_Q
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  • DeathBanana - Heavens Tear
    DeathBanana - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,674 Arc User
    edited October 2009
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    Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »
    How about starting simple and adding a fog of war at night. :P
    (Fog of war = Less vision/distance of enemies).

    NO.
    NO.
    NO.
    NO.
    NO.
    NO.
    NO.
    NO.
    NO.

    Fog of war sucks balls in any game ever made. And, tbh, there wouldn't really be a point of Fog of war in PW; this isn't an RTS, you don't have to see for 5 miles to beat your opponent.

    Also, I think environmental buffs would work better, like added fire damage during a sunny day, etc.
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    9x Demon Cleric

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