Sage or Demon

redknightx
redknightx Posts: 20 Arc User
edited October 2009 in Blademaster
I heard from many people that they prefer to go on the Demon path. I actually wanted to know why... by looks of some guides and info seems like sage skills are more capable in damage and what not. can anyone give me an explanation?b:question
Post edited by redknightx on

Comments

  • Accelerated - Sanctuary
    Accelerated - Sanctuary Posts: 1,048 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Much better quicken effect for fist bms. Much better stuns ratios for pole/sword/axe bms. And most importantly, better crits for all builds.

    I rather take the 20% quicken effect over additional 5 seconds durations any time of the year, for fist bms.

    It's just me, though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
    ♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥
  • redknightx
    redknightx Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    You have a point... but i've also been hearing how people saying that Demon in general does more damage than Sage. But by looks in guides it seems its the other way around, sage skills seem to be overpowering in damage... and Demon just seems to have more upgrades on the effects from skills, and ofcourse the stuns :P

    can anyone shed some light on why people claim Demons do more damage than sages?b:sweat
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Fists and axes shouldn't even question: go demon and cheer when you reach 100+ with all demon skilled,

    Swords and spears skew it a bit. demon ends up usually being better for groups, such as rebirth, while single play might favor sage. The 1 spark isn't something that can be counted, which counters strategies. While demon either gives guarantees, or nice extras boosting pre-existing boosts, This is why demon is favored over sage. But if not axe or fist, it does become more of a judgement call. But remember, 15% moire sage mastery only equals 3% or less acutal damage booost.,
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • redknightx
    redknightx Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Thanks for info...b:pleased but still dont really get 15% sage mastery = 3% dmg boost

    knowing how demon fits in to axe and fist, i hope to know the recommendations of pole blades and swords in choosing their sage/demon paths. Knows these are uncommon weapons to be used, but am curious type b:victory

    it be helpful if some one can give some views here...
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    What makes swords nice, is their cheapness. According to a chart I read; swords, axes, and poles get the same refinement bonus for their level. Fists/claws only get 72%. However, they make up for it in -interval gear, which is why prof and I both keep mentioning it.

    Sword at 90 is hard to beat. A very cheap berserk option, with extra damage easy to get. This is why people favor it. But in long range, it ends up being fist -interval rage vs. axe berserk rage with gold OHT. Quite frankly, unless they bring in scroll lvl 8 crafting with shortcuts, TT90 berserk axes suck. Only grade 11 vs grade 13 with extra adds, it simply doesn't add up. A;ways listen to prof as long as they list their basis for theories; I have yet to find something concrete in their assertions as being wrong. Cube is the one thing they may fall behind in, but always test for yourself if cheap/possible.

    Oh, right. damage formula. Forget since the last egotistical person whined about me being egotistical. I love that bit of hypocrisym in that they can't understand they are below average, not average. Anyways, physical formula is (1 + ((2*str/3)/100)+ MAS) * (LVL + Phys Atk)
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Filet - Heavens Tear
    Filet - Heavens Tear Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Fists and axes shouldn't even question: go demon and cheer when you reach 100+ with all demon skilled,

    Swords and spears skew it a bit. demon ends up usually being better for groups, such as rebirth, while single play might favor sage. The 1 spark isn't something that can be counted, which counters strategies. While demon either gives guarantees, or nice extras boosting pre-existing boosts, This is why demon is favored over sage. But if not axe or fist, it does become more of a judgement call. But remember, 15% moire sage mastery only equals 3% or less acutal damage booost.,

    Axes shouldn't even question? The fact that sage mastery is better than demon mastery, sage aeolian is better than demon, a couple more skills are better sage, and that most players won't get 99+ to take advantage of demon heaven's flame should be considered as advantages sage has over demon. If a player is pure axe then it's definitely not just a clear cut choice for demon, you have to see whether you to want to pve or pvp, otherwise if it was so blatantly obvious as you put it then there wouldn't be so many sage axe bms. Oh wait but yeah by your reasoning they're all below average idiots right? of course my bad :P
  • Davechapelle - Sanctuary
    Davechapelle - Sanctuary Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Telarith, you are an idiot.
  • Azlin - Sanctuary
    Azlin - Sanctuary Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Telarith, you ARE and idiot, ya know why? because saying tt90 axes with berserk suck just don't cut it. you wanna know why? u say they are a cheap option? A TT90 Calloused Lionheart costs 20-40 mil just to get the mats for it, IT pays off knwing that they are strong but u have to work hard to get them, unlike fists that u can get em pretty cheap these days. I'm not saying fist is bad but if u haven't experienced other paths of weaps meaning, axe, sword and pole, then u should not have a right to say a thing bout them unless u have used them b4 in long term. btw if u have used the other weaps for only 1-2 lvls, it doesn't count as trying it out cuz u still have to buy skills, spend coins, and know what skill train is best used in what situation. Doing all those in 1-2 lvls and also perfecting them knwing 100% that skill or whatever skill train is best for what is impossible unless u keep trying to not lvl up by suicide and keep losing exp which ppl lower then idiots would do so, PERIOD
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Azlin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Telarith, you ARE and idiot, ya know why? because saying tt90 axes with berserk suck just don't cut it. you wanna know why? u say they are a cheap option? A TT90 Calloused Lionheart costs 20-40 mil just to get the mats for it, IT pays off knwing that they are strong but u have to work hard to get them, unlike fists that u can get em pretty cheap these days. I'm not saying fist is bad but if u haven't experienced other paths of weaps meaning, axe, sword and pole, then u should not have a right to say a thing bout them unless u have used them b4 in long term. btw if u have used the other weaps for only 1-2 lvls, it doesn't count as trying it out cuz u still have to buy skills, spend coins, and know what skill train is best used in what situation. Doing all those in 1-2 lvls and also perfecting them knwing 100% that skill or whatever skill train is best for what is impossible unless u keep trying to not lvl up by suicide and keep losing exp which ppl lower then idiots would do so, PERIOD

    To keep with the spirit; Azlin, you truly are an idiot.

    You came in wrong on both counts. I've been using axes for leveling purposes since lvl 70 when I equipped Calamities. My main source of levels was AoE grind, until I regularly did Rebirth at 75th lvl. My axe AoE were pretty much the only skills leveled, aside from axe/fist mastery, bell, and roar.

    Then you were wrong, in knowing what was being talked about in regards to weaponry. Yes, Lionheart's are the cheaper alternative to getting grade 13 gold OHT berserk axes crafted. They are not as good, because Lionhearts are only grade 11; this means less refinement bonuses. And on our server, people are walking around with TT100 +10 already. Whereas fists would look for getting -interval adds on gold OHT if they just don't go with Deicide. It's just a difference on what boosts each respective weapon type.

    So you had a strong opinion about something that you truly understood none of. Congratulations.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Ophelius - Dreamweaver
    Ophelius - Dreamweaver Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Pardon the interjection, but what are OHT weapons?

    On a related note, yay -interval! :3
  • AshWorth - Sanctuary
    AshWorth - Sanctuary Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    To keep with the spirit; Azlin, you truly are an idiot.

    You came in wrong on both counts. I've been using axes for leveling purposes since lvl 70 when I equipped Calamities. My main source of levels was AoE grind, until I regularly did Rebirth at 75th lvl. My axe AoE were pretty much the only skills leveled, aside from axe/fist mastery, bell, and roar.

    Then you were wrong, in knowing what was being talked about in regards to weaponry. Yes, Lionheart's are the cheaper alternative to getting grade 13 gold OHT berserk axes crafted. They are not as good, because Lionhearts are only grade 11; this means less refinement bonuses. And on our server, people are walking around with TT100 +10 already. Whereas fists would look for getting -interval adds on gold OHT if they just don't go with Deicide. It's just a difference on what boosts each respective weapon type.

    So you had a strong opinion about something that you truly understood none of. Congratulations.

    Honestly if you have the same refine I still prefer TT90 gold even with the lack of refinement bonus. I am assuming that with +10 refine and with the same phy attack stones to both weapon TT100 could have +450 more phy attack to its high end attack. I don;t see this is anyway close to the berserk effect which will give you double dmg. The multiplication factor along with HF is huge not counting into the possibility of having cri zerk effect..
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    AshWorth - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Honestly if you have the same refine I still prefer TT90 gold even with the lack of refinement bonus. I am assuming that with +10 refine and with the same phy attack stones to both weapon TT100 could have +450 more phy attack to its high end attack. I don;t see this is anyway close to the berserk effect which will give you double dmg. The multiplication factor along with HF is huge not counting into the possibility of having cri zerk effect..

    The TT100 part was to prevent any comments of 'that is too expensive', and showcase just how far along to endgame I am talking about. The TT100 +10 that I saw was also Sinrabinsho, the most expensive one according to the anniversary packs. So anyone claiming making attempts to craft gold OHT axes should take into account not everyone is poor in game, and that gold axes have been getting made already. Might take longer, but considering it adds a nice amount makes it a worthwhile goal for my character to have.

    OHT is old heaven's tear equipment. You have 2 types, normal gear which is grade 12, and gold gear which is lvl 100. Each star rating of grade 12 has a lvl req that is different from eachother, ranging through the lvl 9X area. Gold OHT is grade 13 that is set at lvl 100. To craft it, you either rely on chance during normal craft, or use green lunar decomps with some mystic fragments to craft one. Also, think gold OHT automatically comes with 3 adds; the adds themself are random.

    For sage only being 3% damage improvement, worked with assumption of str being boosted 3 per level. Which with damage formula, translates out to:

    1 + ((275 *2/3)/100) + .9 = 3.73
    divided by
    1+ ((275*2/3)/100) + .75 = 3.58

    Ending with 104% damage compared to demon, for 4% extra damage in base physical. Now with the extra damage from using skills, which will be the same amount of damage added to both, the extra damage going for sage decreases. Also, the higher strength is raised above 275, from adds or higher level, the less extra damage % sage adds. And this is taken with only lvl 90 consideration. For PvE, using sparks at all, reduces that number further still. For fists, it would be rendered a non-issue by triple sparks attack speed boost anyways. And axes extra length amp adds that many more AoEs that can be used before it falls.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited October 2009
    I don't really know who Telarith is, but I love her <3

    Telerith is 100% correct. the gold axes you can make with heaven fragments are upon the best in the game. they're random stat as well. I've seen them zerk and 2 +14 con mods. every tank I know wanted them as well. they refine for a LOT more, giving a LOT of physical attack, which is something warriors need more than anything. they don't have a random skill that can 1 shot most classes like tanks, they need higher leveled weapons.

    @Telarith: I've never heard of anyone crafting gold weapons with normal mats. I've been told you can only do it with the heaven fragments. I wouldn't really know, never tried to craft a weapon there. though I'm quite sure you need to make the green cv item and break it down to craft it(you can find them in the forges if you look).

    I do agree about the damage difference between passives. at 92(with 281 base strength), my dark axe passive vs. my friend, who uses the same axes: "Beacon Axes" in pwi(neither use axe as main tree, we just got them for the 99 version), has maybe ~200 more patk than me with his holy axe passive. he's also level 95. with the same build he would have 9 more strength than me, at least. wow sir, that's a lot of patk. culti changing decision. that fits directly into the argument that cv gold axes having 450 more patk(so you say, cba to check) isn't enough to convince you to use them.


    b:question do I know you from somewhere Telarith?

    edit;

    if you are who I think you are, I love you even more <3
  • Azlin - Sanctuary
    Azlin - Sanctuary Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    To keep with the spirit; Azlin, you truly are an idiot.

    You came in wrong on both counts. I've been using axes for leveling purposes since lvl 70 when I equipped Calamities. My main source of levels was AoE grind, until I regularly did Rebirth at 75th lvl. My axe AoE were pretty much the only skills leveled, aside from axe/fist mastery, bell, and roar.

    Then you were wrong, in knowing what was being talked about in regards to weaponry. Yes, Lionheart's are the cheaper alternative to getting grade 13 gold OHT berserk axes crafted. They are not as good, because Lionhearts are only grade 11; this means less refinement bonuses. And on our server, people are walking around with TT100 +10 already. Whereas fists would look for getting -interval adds on gold OHT if they just don't go with Deicide. It's just a difference on what boosts each respective weapon type.

    So you had a strong opinion about something that you truly understood none of. Congratulations.
    well good for you if u had used axes b4 but are u sure about ppl walking around with tt100 in Sanctuary? or did u mistake them with lunar weaps cuz some lunar weaps glow red just like the tt100 weaps too.... btw talking about fists hitting fast... have u ever dueled anyone b4? b:questionb:chuckle
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited October 2009
    with the event last month, I'm sure all servers have plenty of hh100 materials. lunar looks nothing like hh100(I've seen all hh100, and almost all of the cv gold weapons. none are the same). however, I'm fairly positive that the fw pole axe looks exactly like the hh100.

    Telarith, you should reroll into delphi with me <3. I could put my wr on hold and wait for you to catch up =)
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Azlin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    well good for you if u had used axes b4 but are u sure about ppl walking around with tt100 in Sanctuary? or did u mistake them with lunar weaps cuz some lunar weaps glow red just like the tt100 weaps too.... btw talking about fists hitting fast... have u ever dueled anyone b4? b:questionb:chuckle

    Hmmm....let's see. TT100 has a name called Sinrabinsho, a weapon I've been wanting to eventually get for my cleric since Oct last year, Lunar doesn't. Sinrabinsho has a level req of 100, lunar doesn't.

    Shouldn't you wait to be right about things, after being proved really wrong, in the knowledge department before accusing people of not knowing the difference between two weapons? Like the different between gold OHT and other equip for instance?

    As for dueling, yep. PK as well, since I cube. I switch between fists and axe in there as needed. Fists to build chi/run out their apoths and skills, then swap to axe for heavens and drake before swapping to fist to finish them off. This is with a +1 fist, waiting for orbs to refine again. And in cube, usually do well unless I run into celestials, or fight in the 2nd pk room. Since I am 0 vit, can't allow the ball to be triggered without being hindered more than helped. At 90, I'll gain about 2k health and it won't matter anymore.
    prof wrote: »
    with the event last month, I'm sure all servers have plenty of hh100 materials. lunar looks nothing like hh100(I've seen all hh100, and almost all of the cv gold weapons. none are the same). however, I'm fairly positive that the fw pole axe looks exactly like the hh100.

    Telarith, you should reroll into delphi with me <3. I could put my wr on hold and wait for you to catch up =)

    Have too many characters on here that are too built up to just drop them and start a new server :) I don't have anywhere near as much time to play as when I started; 12 hours gone a day to work + commute.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.

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